54 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

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I'd give the K2 another pair of ballistic hard points instead of more energy.

yeah and id give it more energy

because if you want ballistics thats what the jagermech is for

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 19 December 2017 - 02:07 PM, said:

yeah and id give it more energy

because if you want ballistics thats what the jagermech is for

What if we want to use those extra ballistic hardpoints on MGs, not just boating Autocannons? I think that a modified K2 with quad MGs fits the lore role of the mech perfectly. Grumble grumble sized hardpoints grumble grumble.

Anyways, the Jester hero already has the distinction of being the go-to laser vomit Catapult variant. The K2 is the only one with ballistics in any capacity, making that its defining feature relative to the rest.

Edited by FupDup, 19 December 2017 - 02:09 PM.

[Khobai]

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What if we want to use those extra ballistic hardpoints on MGs, not just boating Autocannons? I think that a modified K2 with quad MGs fits the lore role of the mech perfectly.

but how can I be sure youll only put MGs in them and wont cheat and put autocannons in instead?

if only there were hardpoints that could only use certain weapons but not others.

Edited by Khobai, 19 December 2017 - 02:10 PM.

[Helsbane]

Just give the K2 a pair of shiny new ballistic mounts in the arms as an update to combat power creep. That would bring it more in line with other rides in the 65 ton category.

-OR-

(and I admittedly like this one better...) As a field modification, allow the K2 to use the arms off of a Jager A model. Tell me that wouldn't be sweet.

Edited by Helsbane, 19 December 2017 - 02:14 PM.

[Khobai]

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Just give the K2 a pair of shiny new ballistic mounts in the arms as an update to combat power creep. That would bring it more in line with other rides in the 65 ton category.

its not a ballistic mech though. its an energy mech. PPCs are its main deal.

letting it boat autocannons makes no sense to me. not its role.

its the jagermechs role.


maybe give the K2 +2B in the CT, then it can only use AC2s and MGs. Thats fair. Then its not going full jagermech.


theres no point in having different mechs if you dont at least try to keep the mechs from being the same...

Edited by Khobai, 19 December 2017 - 02:15 PM.

[Wolfways]

CPLT-K3.
Upgrade the PPC's to ERPPC's and 20DHS. I play mine now and then for fun. It's a good sniper/support mech

[Bud Crue]

Khobai, on 19 December 2017 - 02:12 PM, said:

its not a ballistic mech though. its an energy mech. PPCs are its main deal.

letting it boat autocannons makes no sense to me. not its role.

its the jagermechs role.

Tell that to my Firebrand.

[Khobai]

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Tell that to my Firebrand.

firebrand cant boat autocannons... theres nothing to tell to it.

firebrands role is energy.

just like the K2s role is energy.

so I would no more want to see the firebrands role changed than the K2s...

its the same thing.


but then theres also mech roles to consider too.

catapults arnt ballistic mechs. theyre mostly energy/missile mechs.

while jagermechs are mostly energy/ballistic mechs.

as a point of balance I also think catapults should get better missile quirks than what they have now. and the jagermech 6A should get no missile quirks at all.

Edited by Khobai, 19 December 2017 - 02:28 PM.

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

SOMEONE SAYING MY K2 IS BAD!?

[N0ni]

Mech roles mean nothing in a video game environment, especially MWO and its construction rules. So saying the K2 is an energy role means nothing, when you can put any ballistic in the lore's MG hardpoint. The K2's role then changes because of that to energy/ballistic.

MWO's construction rules are pretty tame compared to previous Mechwarrior titles i.e. MW2/3 where you can put just about anything anywhere and upgrade/degrade omnimech engines.

[Khobai]

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Mech roles mean nothing in a video game environment, especially MWO and its construction rules. So saying the K2 is an energy role means nothing, when you can put any ballistic in the lore's MG hardpoint. The K2's role then changes because of that to energy/ballistic.

I disagree.

if the K2 has energy/ballistic hardpoints but gets quirks for using machine guns and PPCs...

and the jagermech has energy/ballistic hardpoints but gets quirks for using lasers and autocannons...

I think the quirks absolutely do influence what weapons you use in those mechs, even though both can use the same weapons.

I mean thats kindve the whole point of quirks... to help differentiate two mechs with similar hardpoints. and to reward you for playing the mech in its lore configuration.


Like I said, Im fine with the K2 having 4E and 4B hardpoints, as long as the +2B are added to the CT. That helps reinforce its ballistic slots being used for machine guns. Since the only autocannons that could fit in the CT slots are AC2s, which are basically still just long range machine guns

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MWO's construction rules are pretty tame compared to previous Mechwarrior titles i.e. MW2/3 where you can put just about anything anywhere and upgrade/degrade omnimech engines.

MWO's construction rules are lame because too much customization is allowed.

If anything customization should be slightly more restricted to help preserve the role of each mech

some people want sized hardpoints... I think thats going off the deep end and a little too restrictive though. I would like to see signature hardpoints instead that reward you with quirks only when you put specific weapons in specific hardpoints.

I like rewards better than punishments.

Edited by Khobai, 19 December 2017 - 02:42 PM.

[N0ni]

Khobai, on 19 December 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

I disagree.

if the K2 has energy/ballistic hardpoints but gets quirks for using machine guns and PPCs

and the jagermech has energy/ballistic hardpoints but gets quirks for using lasers and autocannons...

No MG specific quirks on the K2, just general +10% ballistic range (so hey that applies to all ballistics, imagine that)

And the only Jager with laser specific quirks is the S, which once again you're better off just using ballistics with the cooldown and velocity for that.

You can very well use PPCs on the K2 in its stock intended role, but you can also get some range out of Autocannons/Gauss. Personally with those high mounts, ballistics are a go-to.

[Khobai]

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No MG specific quirks on the K2, just general +10% ballistic range (so hey that applies to all ballistics, imagine that)

well if the K2 gets +2B in the CT, its ballistic quirks should be changed to only work for machine guns.

it shouldnt get rewarded for using four AC2s. or two AC2s and two AC5s. its not supposed to use that.

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And the only Jager with laser specific quirks is the S, which once again you're better off just using ballistics with the cooldown and velocity for that.

thats fine as long as the jagers get better autocannon quirks than the K2.

the role of jagermechs is using autocannons.

and likewise the jagermech 6A shouldnt have missile quirks. only catapults should have missile quirks.


A lot of the problem with quirks is just that PGI doesnt have a clue what theyre doing. They dont know how to properly differentiate the mechs using quirks.

Theyre too busy trying to use quirks as a way to balance out clan tech. And theyve completely lost track of the real purpose of quirks which is differentiating mechs.

Edited by Khobai, 19 December 2017 - 02:49 PM.

[N0ni]

Why shouldn't the Jager A get missile quirks? It has 4 missile hardpoints. There needs to be an some sort of incentive to using them, otherwise nobody would buy the A and just get the S and DD more so than people already do now.

[Khobai]

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Why shouldn't the Jager A get missile quirks?

They probably should change the JM6-A to 4B, 2M, 2E because 2B, 4M, 2E is really weird for a jagermech. The stock loadout would still work with the different hardpoints.

it shouldnt get missile quirks, because thats more the catapults role

A jagermech should not really be anyone's first choice for a missile mech...

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There needs to be an some sort of incentive to using them, otherwise nobody would buy the A and just get the S and DD more so than people already do now.

Or maybe just remove the variant from the game.

A lot of problems were caused by PGI forcing people to have 3 variants of mechs.

It led to variants being in the game that probably shouldnt be, since they had to always have at least 3 variants.

The Catapult and Jagermechs roles would be much better defined if there was no missile jagermech.

Edited by Khobai, 19 December 2017 - 03:05 PM.

[Helsbane]

Khobai, on 19 December 2017 - 02:52 PM, said:

well SRM quirks would be fine I suppose

but it shouldnt get LRM quirks, because thats the catapults role



Maybe just remove the variant from the game.

A lot of problems were caused by PGI forcing people to have 3 variants of mechs.

It led to variants being in the game that probably shouldnt since they had to have at least 3 variants.

I'm curious, given that battletech has wonderful creations like the Cataphract (a lore based chassis that falls under the 'Frankenmech' heading) which was cobbled together out of spare parts of whatever they had lying around, how you can hold on so tight to the whole 'Lore' aspect of chassis modification or 'role' a mech has. It makes ZERO sense to argue that the K2 is only an energy boat when it is a variant of a MISSILE support mech. Now, if memory serves, there is additional space within the basic Catapult chassis which allows for ammunition storage, otherwise it wouldn't be much of a missile platform. So, how is it so against your precious Lore to swap out to a set of large ballistic mounts and use that pre existing space for ammo?

Can't wait for you to dance around that one...

[N0ni]

Sure lets remove all the variants that don't fit a chassis's lore role and is different/unique, that makes sense. Give me back my C-Bills first.

(suddenly feeling deja vu)

[Khobai]

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Sure lets remove all the variants that don't fit a chassis's lore role and is different/unique, that makes sense. Give me back my C-Bills first.

(suddenly feeling deja vu)

well the other alternative is changing its hardpoints to 4B, 2M, 2E

I think that fits better with jagermechs

[N0ni]

Except the S and DD already have 4B and 6B respectively, making the A 4B 2M would see no use since you'd be better off with the others that are already quirked better for ballistics. Even the Firebrand with just 2B has better ballistic quirks.

[CuriousCabbitBlue]

2xHEAVY GAUSS