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How Do You Counter Stealth Armor?


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#81 RickySpanish

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 09:38 AM

View PostDAEDALOS513, on 24 January 2019 - 09:18 AM, said:

No he definitely had lock and I got the inc missile warning..


I have fun with my 4ml pirate's bane.. ac10, 4sl ghillie.. dual gauss thanatos.. all under stealth.. the latest buff to stealth heat dissipation made several stealth builds more viable .. anybody else have any good stealth builds??


The first rule of running stealth builds is that you do not talk about running stealth builds. Otherwise, 'Mech Dads will complain to Russ at MechCon 2020, which will get them nerfed.

#82 Prototelis

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 09:40 AM

Haven't tested it, but don't UAVs counter stealth?

#83 RickySpanish

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 09:42 AM

View PostPrototelis, on 24 January 2019 - 09:40 AM, said:

Haven't tested it, but don't UAVs counter stealth?


Sure! As does heat vision. Yep!

#84 JediPanther

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 10:10 AM

The best counter is just to shoot it. Walls,rocks,hills,steeps,cliffs and such don't shoot you. They don't move either or look like mechs. If it explodes when you alpha it you just won the found-a-stealth-mech bonus.

#85 Mole

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 10:32 AM

View PostRickySpanish, on 24 January 2019 - 09:01 AM, said:

Clearly you have never been shredded by an ATM boat. See the trick with ATMs is that you use them to shut down an enemy push, and at their effective range who cares about locks? Just lob them at the dummy charging the line head on and watch them barely find the chance to regret their decision.


Actually I have. I even own an ATM boat. But it still has backup weaponry. Leaving yourself with no option to defend yourself at close range or when presented with a target where a lock may not be achieved is simply poor 'mech design.

I'd also like to take this moment to point out that unless something has changed since the last time I encountered an enemy running stealth armor, 'mechs with stealth armor engaged show up as heat-neutral in heat vision, meaning that heat vision does not counter them. You must rely solely on your eyesight to detect a 'mech running stealth armor.

Edited by Mole, 24 January 2019 - 10:34 AM.


#86 Xeno Phalcon

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 10:41 AM

View PostPrototelis, on 24 January 2019 - 09:40 AM, said:

Haven't tested it, but don't UAVs counter stealth?


It does not, the direct counters are PPC hits, NARC hits and TAG used outside the radius of ECM. They also tend to struggle with flamers and show up on seismic sensors.

#87 RickySpanish

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 11:49 AM

View PostMole, on 24 January 2019 - 10:32 AM, said:


I'd also like to take this moment to point out that unless something has changed since the last time I encountered an enemy running stealth armor, 'mechs with stealth armor engaged show up as heat-neutral in heat vision, meaning that heat vision does not counter them. You must rely solely on your eyesight to detect a 'mech running stealth armor.


Sssh!

Edited by RickySpanish, 24 January 2019 - 11:50 AM.


#88 TheGreyWolfe

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 10:06 AM

One issue - not mentioned here so far - is a Stealth Mech using Flamers.
Somehow - this turns into "Magically Cold Fire" as both the Mech and the Flames when on Stealth (even after being hit by PPC) don't appear on heat vision.
This might be a part of "flamers not showing up on heat vision" - but that wouldn't be correct either and needs to be fixed.

Edited by TheGreyWolfe, 26 January 2019 - 10:06 AM.


#89 Novakaine

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 10:43 AM

I've noticed most people tend to run AMS on them.
Why I don't know why but follow the AMS trail for lurm boats.
BAP will give you a "low signal" message when one is near.
If in a Assault good old seismic helps.
If all else fails use some situational awareness.

#90 Y E O N N E

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 11:20 AM

Don't need a BAP to get a "Low Signal" when a Stealth 'Mech is near.

#91 Insignus

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 11:25 AM

My primary mech is a CDA-3M, so I'll let you know what really works.


Awareness.


The armor works because it heavily exploits a number of bad habits that players have developed - over-reliance on doritos, the tendency of most mechs to run hard hitting weapons that shock a player and thus notify them that they've been hit, and the current meta of running with limited to no rear armor.

So - players, by custom and by game design, encounter 90% of their targets in their front field of vision, are notified and pointed at said target by sensors, and then wail upon it with as big a gun as they can bring until someone's armor blows out. Stealth play is the antithesis of this.

But mostly, it exploits the profound lack of situational awareness that most folks run with. Generally, if you're facing off against a stealth mech, you're going to have to commit to countering it. If you just turn and shoot at it, it's going to back off and come back after you later, or shift to another target.

The majority of my kills never know they've been stealth killed until after the fact, because I use MPLs for that precise reason, and certain methodologies that I'm not going to share here.

People look at that and say it's low skill, so they occasionally come out with threads like this where the talk will invariably get around to "Needs more Counters".

The positioning, choice of target, engagement method, ranging, and choice of cover, and the evasion - these are all skills, many of which directly overlap with those used by light mechs, that require a certain amount of skill and finesse to make actually work cohesively the difference here is that I have fewer critical slots to make up for any deficiencies in my skill/loadout. Its not Press Key to Win (Unlike some builds.....)

I'd add a caveat here: There are certain camo schemes that enhance stealth play, as most stealth work occurs well inside camo render distance. You have been warned.

Edited by Insignus, 26 January 2019 - 11:27 AM.


#92 Blacksheep One

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 06:17 PM

View PostJediPanther, on 24 January 2019 - 10:10 AM, said:

The best counter is just to shoot it. Walls,rocks,hills,steeps,cliffs and such don't shoot you. They don't move either or look like mechs. If it explodes when you alpha it you just won the found-a-stealth-mech bonus.


*heads to suggestion forum to request mech shaped rocks*

#93 JediPanther

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 06:27 PM

View PostBlacksheep One, on 26 January 2019 - 06:17 PM, said:


*heads to suggestion forum to request mech shaped rocks*

I needed that laugh. The urbie comes close to moving trash can. The champion mech's fighter-esq look does give me small hope for a Stinger/Wasp lam at least art wise.

#94 adamts01

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 09:14 PM

View PostBombast, on 20 December 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:


Stealth Armor is basically a fun trick for low level play.

When "low level play" includes all of Quick Play, most of CW, most of Group Que.... Basically 99% of the game, it's no longer "low level play". It's the game. Essentially ALL play.

This competitive area of MWO you speak of is so small and insignificant at this point that it isn't even worth bringing up.

#95 eminus

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 09:51 PM

DUAL HEAVY GAUSS to the FACE!!

#96 DarkFhoenix

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 09:58 PM

i counter stealth with a piranha .

#97 LordNothing

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 10:07 PM

shoot it, repeatedly, until it explodes.

#98 Variant1

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Posted 26 January 2019 - 10:10 PM

View PostKhobai, on 20 December 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

im still confused as to what stealth armor actually does to make it worth it

it makes you invisible to turrets and thermal imaging on certain maps at night and uavs and you cant be targeted under 200m? but they can still see you on seismic... and if youre within 200m and out in the open they can certainly see you with their eyes unless theyre BLIND.

and thats somehow worth 12 crit slots, 75% sensor reduction, and not being able to dissipate heat? plus the tonnage you lose by not taking ferro.

but ECM makes you invisible from 200m+, also gives stealth to teammates, does some other stuff too, and is only 1.5 tons and has no downside?

I dont get it

Seems like ECM shouldnt grant stealth at all. And stealth armor should be the only way to get stealth, but stealth armor should stealth you at all ranges not just under 200m.

Stealth armor makes the user untargetable at the cost of building up heat takes up extra slots/weight

ECM is trash it no longer gives stealth its just 25% detection range reduction around a small 119m bubble only good against those that dont bother to bring any back up weapons

Edited by Variant1, 26 January 2019 - 10:11 PM.


#99 adamts01

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Posted 27 January 2019 - 11:24 AM

View PostVariant1, on 26 January 2019 - 10:10 PM, said:

weight

ECM is trash
LRMs and ATMs are everywhere. ECM is still really good. Stealth is great as well. I get that they're both close to worthless in comp play, but most players in tier 1 are trash and can't handle a Stealth Flea without streaks. It's absurd what you can get away with in those things.

#100 Snikit Tseng

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 11:09 AM

Take Off
nuke the entire site from orbit...

it's the only way to make sure!!





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