78 replies to this topic

[50 50]

MeHowDude, on 27 December 2017 - 05:38 AM, said:

So the core of the game (faction play) has been abandoned, and now they are trying to make mwo an e-sport game like counter strike through solaris and quick play. What are they thinking? no competitive player in his/her right mind would decide to play mwo on a competitive level; additionally, the majority of the player base of battletech or MechWarrior series are not interested in competitive gameplay (now mwo is just "downgraded version of csgo"). And the saddest thing is that the mwo animation is not even close to MechWarrior 4, it still feels like alpha stage . No point of beating a dead horse. Its time to move back to MechWarrior living legends and MegaMek.

You do realize that we have just had the convention and the finals for the MWO world cup right?
There were 3 teams competing for a pay out.
ie. There is a competitive scene.
Several in fact.

Faction Play unfortunately is not the core of MWO which is why it doesn't get the focus.
Quick play is the core.
Faction Play got added some time later but was essentially a modified version of quick play and it has never received the level of depth and complexity needed to really make the mode something substantial.

[xX PUG Xx]

Since the development cycle for this game is so long, making any statements regarding anything being forgotten or finished would appear to be short-sighted. Although this doesn't preclude the fact that not everything that was or could be implemented in Faction Play has not or may not appear. Just a comment aimed at not disregarding anything at this point, think on what would make the mode more appealing to you and fire in a post.

[Nightbird]

Many of the ideas from the previous round tables were unrealistic, not scaled to PGI's resources, and overly optimistic about the reception upon release. Many of the few ideas implemented from the round tables ended up being bad. Basically, FP is dead when it comes to future investment until PGI finds someone who knows where to take it from here, and also able to fit it within PGI's budget. I'd prefer PGI ignoring community input, simply because so much of what I read is noise.

Edited by Nightbird, 28 December 2017 - 08:54 PM.

[MeHowDude]

50 50, on 28 December 2017 - 02:39 PM, said:

You do realize that we have just had the convention and the finals for the MWO world cup right?
There were 3 teams competing for a pay out.
ie. There is a competitive scene.
Several in fact.

Faction Play unfortunately is not the core of MWO which is why it doesn't get the focus.
Quick play is the core.
Faction Play got added some time later but was essentially a modified version of quick play and it has never received the level of depth and complexity needed to really make the mode something substantial.

yea I know, but looking at youtube, and seeing the videos of the mwo championship with 2k or below views and comparing it with videos of an unpopular e-sport game's championship with 100-200k views then it really makes you wonder and be realistic (like mwo championship is only for the fans and not a real thing like championship of teeworlds). Additionally when you read reviews of the mechwarrior online in 2014 they always mentioned the FP (in 2014 mwo had these types of reviews that its going to be an interactive battletech universe by the community, and back then it sounded like mwo wanted to be this type of game, and the game itself was released in 2013, so FP is not such new idea to mwo even before the release I remember reading rumors about interactive battletech universe, and ******** my pants) like how mwo allows battlemech/mechwarrior fans to change the history, how mwo is going to release mechs according to the date in the battletech universe, etc. etc. and they did that, and because of this the battletech universe in mwo felt alive (well kinda because of the intractable limitations and simplicity) even though the FP was just extended version of QP. I do agree that FP should be more complex, but I would say that the inner sphere strategy/options for each faction is more important, and later the gameplay/modes for it. Furthermore, I kinda dont get why the mwo community becomes a circle jerk about competitive gameplay and championships which are just unpopular (almost unknown) comparing with other unpopular e-sport games. What I am trying to say is that competitive gameplay and championships are a good thing because mechwarrior fans should have them (nostalgia, community, fun, etc.). But realistically speaking it is no go in bigger scale (it is not profitable to become a competitive mwo player unlike in csgo or other esport games including the unpopular ones).

Edited by MeHowDude, 30 December 2017 - 08:41 PM.

[50 50]

Fair enough points.
The Competitive scene may not rival that of some of the other games. Probably not even close.
However, the matches can be just as exciting.

Faction Play is hopefully not forgotten,
The key things that pop up about FP is that people like the longer game, they like using drop decks as a way to plan their resources and strategies, they like that it is a team game and everyone hopes for more depth.

[Davegt27]

how about people put down some suggestions for FP improvements??

I would like to see jump ship corridors

1)I feel these would establish lines of supply

2)help locate front lines

3)open up FP for interdiction missions (to cut lines of supply)

4)add value to weighted planets

it might be possible to modify the skill tree node system to use on FP map
then just stretch out the lines as supply lines



GLHF

[DaFrog]

DaFrog, on 20 December 2017 - 02:00 PM, said:

I'd say something, but I'd get banned...

I'd say something else, but I'd still get banned.

[QueenBlade]

Davegt27, on 01 January 2018 - 09:02 PM, said:

how about people put down some suggestions for FP improvements??

https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

[Davegt27]

QueenBlade, on 02 January 2018 - 10:50 AM, said:

https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

if you could add only 3 things from your doc what would they be??

[QueenBlade]

Repair/Refit system

Varied Planetary Tonnages

Planetary Values/Logistics

[xX PUG Xx]

QueenBlade, on 02 January 2018 - 10:50 AM, said:

https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

Now THAT is a Faction Play I would enjoy, as immersive as I could wish for.

[Kin3ticX]

QueenBlade, on 02 January 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

Repair/Refit system

Varied Planetary Tonnages

Planetary Values/Logistics

Repair/Refit system - This seems like a high maintenance item that would need monitoring and PGI seems to want to do fire and forget updates/features, stuff that doesn't need an employee to babysit. They go long periods of time without patching CW. Also, think back to closed beta where even a rudimentary repair rearm caused players to do odd things like not repair or not rearm and just pack extra ammo since 60% reloads were free. Also, you kinda dont want people trying to win a 48v48 with their 1st mech because mah repair bill. It's kinda a given you will burn 3 mechs no matter what unless its a roflstomp. Perhaps an ingame ammo resupply or maybe armor repair would be more appropriate.

Varied Planetary Tonnages - The only downside I can think of is some people can only make 1 dropdeck, so you'd have people that cant drop or drop underweight. That and I think there are too many planets for PGI to handle, most of them dont even have simple lore background, even ones like Solaris or Terra.

Planetary Values/Logistics: Logistics is one of PGI's kryptonites. I imagine they will have more success in single player but for CW they never got past a unit coffer. There was supposed to be a dropship and all kinda of crap that never happened.

All in all I dont see PGI doing much of anything unless for some reason they are hiding a miracle patch or there is some kind of PR storm over CW.

This also might have done some good 2 years ago, but now it probably looks more like a sunk cost to PGI which is why they are doing Solaris instead.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 02 January 2018 - 08:55 PM.

[FallingAce]

A lot more misses than hit from the last roundtable (Jan 28)notes

Quote

Hour 1 Selectable dropzones/ spawncamping

PGI has done nothing

Quote

Hour 2 Stuck in game modes

June Patch Tug Of War Random Mode Selection

Quote

Hour 2.3 Faction Perks

Rejected by PGI

Quote

PGI ANNOUNCEMENT: 4.2 is going to release soon, probably April

April May June July
https://mwomercs.com...oming-in-april/
May 2017 Skill tree
June 2017 Tug Of War Random Mode Selection
Incursion
July2017 Civil war Invasion Era https://mwomercs.com...ay-patch-notes/

Quote

No more units having two different units in different factions that players can seamlessly leave whenever they want to drop on a different side. Now whenever players leave a unit they are still beholden to that unit's contract at least for 7 days(?).

Meh

Quote

Also new Faction V Faction sub-wars will start up. First one will be Liao versus Davion. We could potentially be running these mini-events 24/7 but probably wont.. also they are only going to be for loyalists and have special rewards.

*snickers*

Quote

Hero-Jarl of the FRR: Inactive players skew the contract bonuses; for instance Davion's is always low and Liao's is always high- can you fix this?
The Last Jarl-Bender: How about if you tie it to amount of the faction who have logged in in the last 30 days.
PGI: Aight, sounds okay.

PGI has done nothing

Edited by FallingAce, 02 January 2018 - 10:21 PM.

[MovinTarget]

I like a lot of Queenblade's ideas...

What would almost appeal to me as much would be to have some of his stuff implemented, keep the the 12v12 4 mech dropdecks, but also have some sort of continual battle going at the same time where you queue solo, by weight class and get injected in when your team needs another mech of that class and you are next in line... let it be basically a match that runs the length of the FP 8 hour phase. Even better, perhaps you could queue by *role*. Cap each individual at 15 minutes at which point they get bumped out and have to re-queue to avoid camping. Heck, bring back lesser versions of LT to make people friggin MOVE.

Disconnects could be immediately bumped and replaced by the next appropriate pilot in queue, which in itself would be a nice improvement over any of the existing modes.

Queueing solo and continuously could also *hypothetically* allow for some MM control where a losing side might give "better" players a (slight) bump in queue and the winning side may push them back if doing *too* well... Before you poo poo that, consider that is exactly what militaries often do, distribute assets where most needed and avoid overcommiting. Heck, maybe have 2-3 of these battles running concurrently based on population and then people are dropped in the battle where they are most needed, reducing the chance of unit sync drops....

I know this would be rather chaotic... okay, VERY chaotic, but think about it. It could potentially supplant solo QP as your potential for rewards could be better, or at least different. Also, it would allow people that don't have time to put together a team to just drop and play. It could also move the Solos-n-Yolos-n-Potatoes out of the Invasion queue. The fact that it would be an 8 hour ongoing slugfest means that there would be massive potential to teeter back and forth because you drop solo *AND* few could actually drop the whole 8 hours.... It would very literally be out of the hands of a select few.

...Basically... if all you want is quick, dirty stompy robots, go for it!

Yeah, population would be a big part of the challenge but instead of splitting Invasion into 2 queues (solos and groups), I'd almost prefer giving the solos something completely different, then, if all they want is the chaos, great, but if they realize they want something more organized they *have* to group up to do invasion.

Edited by MovinTarget, 03 January 2018 - 07:20 AM.

[50 50]

QueenBlade, on 02 January 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

Repair/Refit system

Varied Planetary Tonnages

Planetary Values/Logistics

I reckon these are all doable and would do a lot to make the mode more immersive.

Kin3ticX, on 02 January 2018 - 08:54 PM, said:

Repair/Refit system - This seems like a high maintenance item that would need monitoring and PGI seems to want to do fire and forget updates/features, stuff that doesn't need an employee to babysit. They go long periods of time without patching CW. Also, think back to closed beta where even a rudimentary repair rearm caused players to do odd things like not repair or not rearm and just pack extra ammo since 60% reloads were free. Also, you kinda dont want people trying to win a 48v48 with their 1st mech because mah repair bill. It's kinda a given you will burn 3 mechs no matter what unless its a roflstomp. Perhaps an ingame ammo resupply or maybe armor repair would be more appropriate.

Might be difficult to lock mechs outside of the battles and I think we would want to avoid forcing drop deck changes between drops and delaying players from playing because their mech is damaged. The concept of paying to reduce the repair timer is a nice angle though.
There should also be a distinction between a mech that needs repairs, one that is destroyed and even a mech you eject from (lost).
Should be able to repair damaged mechs, but one that is destroyed or lost should require something different. That's where it would be nice if there was a reason to go on certain missions/modes. For example, what if completing an Incursion mission meant you could restore the destroyed or lost mech?
Does mean changing the way we use the drop decks, but I've discussed that in my own thread.

Kin3ticX, on 02 January 2018 - 08:54 PM, said:

Varied Planetary Tonnages - The only downside I can think of is some people can only make 1 dropdeck, so you'd have people that cant drop or drop underweight. That and I think there are too many planets for PGI to handle, most of them dont even have simple lore background, even ones like Solaris or Terra.

If we change the map we can do this.
Also need to change the length of the attack phases so there is time to make drop deck adjustments to account for different tonnages.

Kin3ticX, on 02 January 2018 - 08:54 PM, said:

Planetary Values/Logistics: Logistics is one of PGI's kryptonites. I imagine they will have more success in single player but for CW they never got past a unit coffer. There was supposed to be a dropship and all kinda of crap that never happened.

All in all I dont see PGI doing much of anything unless for some reason they are hiding a miracle patch or there is some kind of PR storm over CW.

This also might have done some good 2 years ago, but now it probably looks more like a sunk cost to PGI which is why they are doing Solaris instead.

Would still hope there is more that could be done.
With this particular point, if the map is changed then it does become possible to create a supply line effect and give planets some real meaning.
But we have to break away from the way the map is setup now to something a bit more abstract and suitable for PvP.

[Asym]

Some cool ideas !

How would you draw players back to Faction Play?

There are teams that will not drop in FP ever again because of the out-of-control gameplay styles and ego's.....

The exploitation gameplay style has killed FP. Exploitation is where you push everything to the extreme limits to win (Meta itself and games where the unit drops all of the same type of mechs, etc.....) Exploiting everything possible to win...

Maybe, only stock mechs should be allowed; to eliminate anything meta that has ruined FP IMO.

How are you going to convince anyone to return??? After all, look at the definition of insanity.....

[McGoat]

Asym, on 08 January 2018 - 05:32 AM, said:

Some cool ideas !

How would you draw players back to Faction Play?

There are teams that will not drop in FP ever again because of the out-of-control gameplay styles and ego's.....

The exploitation gameplay style has killed FP. Exploitation is where you push everything to the extreme limits to win (Meta itself and games where the unit drops all of the same type of mechs, etc.....) Exploiting everything possible to win...

Maybe, only stock mechs should be allowed; to eliminate anything meta that has ruined FP IMO.

How are you going to convince anyone to return??? After all, look at the definition of insanity.....

Wat.

[Johnathan Tanner]

Asym, on 08 January 2018 - 05:32 AM, said:

Some cool ideas !

How would you draw players back to Faction Play?

There are teams that will not drop in FP ever again because of the out-of-control gameplay styles and ego's.....

The exploitation gameplay style has killed FP. Exploitation is where you push everything to the extreme limits to win (Meta itself and games where the unit drops all of the same type of mechs, etc.....) Exploiting everything possible to win...

Maybe, only stock mechs should be allowed; to eliminate anything meta that has ruined FP IMO.

How are you going to convince anyone to return??? After all, look at the definition of insanity.....

Clearly you and those units have never played an online pvp game before. There are people who understand and get with the meta, and people who lose every match dragging any poor pug with them. This is human nature. Git gud or git rekt.

The units did not leave because of this fundamental truth. They left because they got long tomed off the field, Then had their factions rendered meaningless.

[General Bedlam]

Asym, on 08 January 2018 - 05:32 AM, said:

Some cool ideas !

How would you draw players back to Faction Play?

There are teams that will not drop in FP ever again because of the out-of-control gameplay styles and ego's.....

The exploitation gameplay style has killed FP. Exploitation is where you push everything to the extreme limits to win (Meta itself and games where the unit drops all of the same type of mechs, etc.....) Exploiting everything possible to win...

Maybe, only stock mechs should be allowed; to eliminate anything meta that has ruined FP IMO.

How are you going to convince anyone to return??? After all, look at the definition of insanity.....

If FP was stock only mode I would simply stop playing the game, QP has no meaning and GQ is so anti-large group the last bastion of actual no-holds barred, teamwork based game play is FP. It is supposed to hard mode, the battle for the Inner Sphere shouldn't be watered down and I will say that any skilled player will still out play most of the Lore diehards.

Limiting FP to stock only will do nothing to stomp players that are unable to work as part of a team from losing consistently.

FP requires a Match maker system on top of many other things, basically a large scale reworking of the full mode: one or two additions or changes will not change the wide view of the mode.

P.S. META stands for Most Effective Tactic Available, so there will STILL be a META in Stock 'Mechs and those unwilling to adapt to it will STILL lose to the "META triehards"

Edited by General Bedlam, 08 January 2018 - 06:00 AM.

[Johnathan Tanner]

General Bedlam, on 08 January 2018 - 05:58 AM, said:

If FP was stock only mode I would simply stop playing the game, QP has no meaning and GQ is so anti-large group the last bastion of actual no-holds barred, teamwork based game play is FP. It is supposed to hard mode, the battle for the Inner Sphere shouldn't be watered down and I will say that any skilled player will still out play most of the Lore diehards.

Limiting FP to stock only will do nothing to stomp players that are unable to work as part of a team from losing consistently.

FP requires a Match maker system on top of many other things, basically a large scale reworking of the full mode: one or two additions or changes will not change the wide view of the mode.

The second you brought up a match maker you lost me ands the vast majority of faction players.

What new players need to do is get in TS, Join a unit, And spend several years in said unit learning to play the game. Then you will be able to fight effectively. Instead of screaming for a safe space.