41 replies to this topic

[Christophe Ivanov]

Hey Folks!

First, Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas!

Now with that out of the way, as the title says, Best load out for the Javelin mech. More precisely, the JVN-10 which I got on a whim.

Currently, it's got 4X Medium Lasers and 4 double heat sinks and that's it. Oh it's got the 6X JJ's too. But being a light mech running at 97.2 KPH, I would expect some JJs.

So you Javelin Jocks out there, opinions? Advise? Loadout preferences?

Much thanks!

Edited by Christophe Ivanov, 20 December 2017 - 04:32 PM.

[Tarogato]

Best loadouts are

- 4x SRM4
- 5x or 6x ERML

I forget which variants they are on.

Also, 6x SRM2 is viable.

Any other build you come up with will be suboptimal - play at your own risk. =D

[Tarogato]

.

EDIT: oh wtf...

97.2 kph?

No.

Absolute minimum speed ~130 kph, imo. If you're not running at least a 250 engine, you're probably too sluggish and you will die. 255 XL is bae. Get one. =3

[Escef]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...901157af315bfaa

As most of the Javelins don't have arm hardpoints, you might as well "rip the sleeves off". Like the vast majority of Inner Sphere light mechs, you will want to run an XL engine to give yourself the optimal combination of speed and payload. (In this case, I recommend the 280XL, which also works well in Firestarters, Griffins, Wolverines, Shadowhawks, Riflemen, Catapults, and a few other select mediums.)

[Xiphias]

Escef, on 20 December 2017 - 04:58 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...901157af315bfaa

Don't run this. The firepower is anemic and AMS is overrated, particularly on fast lights. If you do run that build at least switch the MLs to ERMLs.

I'd suggestion these builds as starting points for the three different 10 mechs:

10F 4xxMPL (Alternatively you could do 4xERMLs, but it's a bit weak)
10N 4xSRM4 (You might need to drop the engine for more ammo, depending, definitely get both ammo nodes in the skill tree)
10P 6xSRM2 (You can also run 4xSRM4 on this variant)

As Tarogato said, don't go 97KPH. Minimum should be 130. I wouldn't drop below a 245XL for any reason.

Edit:
For usage, if you run missiles you want to run in quickly hit a target and run out, preferably from behind. Don't go in solo if you can avoid it and try to snipe crit components by getting close to minimize spread. the SRM4s are better for a strong alpha, the SRM2s are good for more sustained DPS against a target. Depending on what your fighting it might be hard to get consistent torso shots with the torso mounted weapons. It's a valid strat to chew the legs off of targets, particularly with the SRM2s where you are less likely to get a quick kill shot. If you are unsure about your aim this can help. Legs on big targets are hard to shield and can be hit from any side.

For the MPL/ERML you want to poke from corner or by using your JJs to pop snipe. Try to get angles from the side and pick of crit components or to draw attention to yourself. Don't stay in one place too long and if you draw attention be ready to peel off quickly. Pay attention to anything that might be coming after you to chase you. Try to engage close to your maximum range, but don't be afraid to stay a bit further out for less damage if it keeps you safer.

Personally I like the 11A the best running 6xERMLs and an XL 255. Also, as a side note, feel free to strip more head armor and put it on the arms to shield damage. It will usually get more use there.

Edited by Xiphias, 20 December 2017 - 06:10 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

You managed to buy the worst Javelin variant available so there's a pretty low cap on how good it can potentially be. I'd honestly just recommend selling it and buying a better one, the 6 SRM2 or 4 SRM4 builds are the best you can get for the chassis. If you are set on keeping it, the 4 MPL build Xiphias posted is as good as it gets, its massively overshadowed by the Wolfhound that runs 6 MPLs instead of 4 and has huge armor quirks though.

I'd definitely recommend upgrading out of using that stock engine.

[Escef]

Xiphias, on 20 December 2017 - 06:03 PM, said:

Don't run this. The firepower is anemic and AMS is overrated, particularly on fast lights. If you do run that build at least switch the MLs to ERMLs.

I'd suggestion these builds as starting points for the three different 10 mechs:

10F 4xxMPL (Alternatively you could do 4xERMLs, but it's a bit weak)
10N 4xSRM4 (You might need to drop the engine for more ammo, depending, definitely get both ammo nodes in the skill tree)
10P 6xSRM2 (You can also run 4xSRM4 on this variant)

As Tarogato said, don't go 97KPH. Minimum should be 130. I wouldn't drop below a 245XL for any reason.

Don't run it, but you recommend 4xMPL, which is barely any more firepower? There's only so much you can do with those hardpoints, man. I mean, I suppose you could cut the AMS and 2 jets to swap one of the MLs out for an (ER?) Large. Gets you the same alpha as the 4xMPL build, but with a lot more range.

As for the AMS, in group queue I don't think I'd recommend it, less LRM usage there. solo queue, however, yeah, go for it.

My 10N is almost identical to yours, I just run a slightly smaller engine for a little bit more ammo. My 10P I got silly with, and went for 2xSRM4 and 4xRL10.

[El Bandito]

Just buy an Assassin instead.

[Tarogato]

Escef, on 20 December 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

Don't run it, but you recommend 4xMPL, which is barely any more firepower?

4MPL has 20% greater alpha damage, 55% greater short term DPS, and assuming same quantity of heatsinks: 7% better sustained DPS (and then your build actually has one fewer DHS than the MPL version because you wasted tonnage on junk equipment).

Also, MPL has an 80% greater damage per tick. It's considerably more accurate.

[Escef]

Tarogato, on 20 December 2017 - 06:32 PM, said:

4MPL has 20% greater alpha damage, ..

Which in this case is a whopping 4 POINTS.

[Xiphias]

Escef, on 20 December 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

Don't run it, but you recommend 4xMPL, which is barely any more firepower? There's only so much you can do with those hardpoints, man. I mean, I suppose you could cut the AMS and 2 jets to swap one of the MLs out for an (ER?) Large. Gets you the same alpha as the 4xMPL build, but with a lot more range.

As for the AMS, in group queue I don't think I'd recommend it, less LRM usage there. solo queue, however, yeah, go for it.

My 10N is almost identical to yours, I just run a slightly smaller engine for a little bit more ammo. My 10P I got silly with, and went for 2xSRM4 and 4xRL10.

The advantage of the 4MPL over the MLs is the burn time. If you're going to play more short range you want more alpha and faster burn time. 4MPLs pokes really well and is good at picking off components.

The MPLs also have a maximum DPS of ~7 while the MLs is ~4.5. MPLs give you a bigger alpha, shorter burn time, and shorter cooldown than MLs. All of those things are important as a light mech. MLs just don't really have any advantages. If you want range you're better off taking ERMLs. A ERLL+3ERMLs might be feasible.

Edit: Side note, the AMS is bad on a fast light because it bird dogs your position by firing while you are hidden behind cover.

Edited by Xiphias, 20 December 2017 - 06:48 PM.

[Xiphias]

Escef, on 20 December 2017 - 06:38 PM, said:

Which in this case is a whopping 4 POINTS.

Which is almost a 5th medium laser. Not a trivial amount of damage on a light.

[Escef]

Xiphias, on 20 December 2017 - 06:40 PM, said:

The advantage of the 4MPL over the MLs is the burn time. If you're going to play more short range you want more alpha and faster burn time. 4MPLs pokes really well and is good at picking off components.

The MPLs also have a maximum DPS of ~7 while the MLs is ~4.5. MPLs give you a bigger alpha, shorter burn time, and shorter cooldown than MLs. All of those things are important as a light mech. MLs just don't really have any advantages. If you want range you're better off taking ERMLs. A ERLL+3ERMLs might be feasible.

Edit: Side note, the AMS is bad on a fast light because it bird dogs your position by firing while you are hidden behind cover.

Really depends on how you play. Standard Mediums (or ERMLs) let you stay a little farther out for your drive-by shootings, the AMS helps the team early on, and if you get locked while doing a drive by prevents some damage from enemy missiles as you beat feet. If you're used to the old SPL boating Cheetahs and Firestarters, yeah, different playstyle.

[Xiphias]

Escef, on 20 December 2017 - 06:52 PM, said:

Really depends on how you play. Standard Mediums (or ERMLs) let you stay a little farther out for your drive-by shootings, the AMS helps the team early on, and if you get locked while doing a drive by prevents some damage from enemy missiles as you beat feet. If you're used to the old SPL boating Cheetahs and Firestarters, yeah, different playstyle.

Mediums have an optimal range of 270, MPLs have an optimal range of 220. The range trade off for mediums is absolutely not worth it compared to the massive burst DPS increase with MPLs. Running 4ERMLs can work if you want to play the range game, but MLs are absolutely not worth it. Any light that was running MLs should switch to ERMLs if they want to continue that playstyle because ERMLs are better in that role.

You spent 10% of your tonnage on AMS, that's tonnage that's absolutely better spent on weapons if you're a solid light pilot. I'll concede that a poor pilot might be able to contribute more to the team with AMS, but a good play can easily be more useful with the extra tonnage. Fast lights can't afford the weight of AMS the same way that heavier mechs can.

[Tarogato]

Xiphias, on 20 December 2017 - 06:40 PM, said:

Edit: Side note, the AMS is bad on a fast light because it bird dogs your position by firing while you are hidden behind cover.

Sorry, you're going to have to come up with a better reason than that. (edit: not that you haven't already, now that I've read your above post, lol)

AMS can be toggled off.

Edited by Tarogato, 20 December 2017 - 07:05 PM.

[Escef]

Xiphias, on 20 December 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

Mediums have an optimal range of 270, MPLs have an optimal range of 220. The range trade off for mediums is absolutely not worth it compared to the massive burst DPS increase with MPLs. Running 4ERMLs can work if you want to play the range game, but MLs are absolutely not worth it. Any light that was running MLs should switch to ERMLs if they want to continue that playstyle because ERMLs are better in that role.

You spent 10% of your tonnage on AMS, that's tonnage that's absolutely better spent on weapons if you're a solid light pilot. I'll concede that a poor pilot might be able to contribute more to the team with AMS, but a good play can easily be more useful with the extra tonnage. Fast lights can't afford the weight of AMS the same way that heavier mechs can.

I saw a tier one player slaughtered by LRMs earlier tonight on his stream (Bear_Cl4w), so I wouldn't call using those twin AMS points a waste. Gimmicky, yeah, a waste, no. If you want a range advantage and don't value the AMS, pull the AMS, 2 jets, and swap to an ERLL & 3xERML.

I'll admit, the ML's range advantage over the MPL is somewhat narrow, and you're right that I should have suggest ER versions instead (at a base range of 360, that's a fairly significant range advantage).

[SuperMCDad]

I assume it's the 10F, that you are talking about. I did not bad with the 10F, but it's probably not as good as the 7ML 11A if you want to vom.

From memory, I think mine runs with an XL280, with 4 MPL. Strip the arms and reduce head armour. Max everywhere else. Reduce jump jets (I often run with just one). Extra heatsink in the engine. Drop the AMS.

MPL's significantly reduce facetime with the enemy. You need to be getting in and out fast. Never stop running, and get in behind mechs to make holes in that thin armour. Get out again before they know what's happening.

Don't give up on it. It will improve greatly as you skill it up. Full speed tweak, laser, cool down and heat gen nodes are your friend. Radar dep obviously.

Happy hunting.

[SuperMCDad]

As for playstyle. I always play the fast striker roll in the JVN. Circling around and looking for out of position assaults and heavys. Attacking from the flanks, or preferably the rear at point blank. Especially if they are already distracted by incoming fire, they might not notice you until it's too late, and they are falling on there faces. If they start to turn, get out fast. Don't run in a straight line. You'll be harder to hit with that double gauss if you are weaving all over the place.

If you have to, you can fight other lights, but it's a toss up honestly. Other lights can wreck you, and going one on one is often a bad idea.
I don't know how well the longer range suggestions given previously will play. A light that isn't running at full speed (like the locust last night who stopped to pick up a fuel cell, and exploded from my 3 ERLL), is an accident waiting to happen. Playing a peaking game is probably better left to the mediums, but others may have had more luck than me. Even if you are running and gunning at longer range, you are easier to hit than if you are moving fast close up.

Good luck.

[Xiphias]

Tarogato, on 20 December 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

Sorry, you're going to have to come up with a better reason than that. (edit: not that you haven't already, now that I've read your above post, lol)

AMS can be toggled off.

I know AMS can be toggled, but that's one more thing that you have to do as a light. It's not a huge deal, but meh, I'd rather not have to worry about swapping it back and forth.

Escef, on 20 December 2017 - 07:07 PM, said:

I saw a tier one player slaughtered by LRMs earlier tonight on his stream (Bear_Cl4w), so I wouldn't call using those twin AMS points a waste. Gimmicky, yeah, a waste, no. If you want a range advantage and don't value the AMS, pull the AMS, 2 jets, and swap to an ERLL & 3xERML.

I'll admit, the ML's range advantage over the MPL is somewhat narrow, and you're right that I should have suggest ER versions instead (at a base range of 360, that's a fairly significant range advantage).

If Bear_Cl4w got slaughtered by LRMs it probably means he messed up. Was he running a light? If the LRMs were enough to kill him I highly doubt that having 2xAMS would have saved him. AMS is occasionally useful, but if the other team doesn't have LRMs (a rarity these days) your 3 tons is wasted. Extra weapons/engine size/ heatsinks are usefull 100% of the time and don't depend on what the enemy takes. That makes them a better investment. Sure, AMS helps you against a missile boat, but not against a laser boat. Having an extra heatsink helps you against both.

I don't have a big problem with running ERMLs on the Javelin, it's just that the 11A does a far better job (6xERML). The 4MPL make the most efficient use of the tonnage/hardpoints on the 10. That said, while I haven't tried it the ERLL+3ERML might work.

[Christophe Ivanov]

Just saw all the comments...
THANK YOU guys for responding! I learned a ton about this mech and yes it's gonna be a dicey time playing this one. But then again, I'm looking to spice up the excitement a little bit and felt this mech might do that some