118 replies to this topic

[Dragonporn]

Thanks for posts, especially for the tip on smurfy.

The Basilisk, on 10 January 2018 - 12:57 AM, said:

Combining brawling and longrange Weapons on a slow chassis while both weapons do high heatbursts is....unwise.
If you want to combine AC20 with an energy component use MPulse lasers or Mlasers and additional heatsinks.
The only remotely sane reason to use a longrange "sniping" weapon like the ER PPC on your KGC would be farming assists in the first match phase to optimize your match gains, expecting to be droped on maps where you never will be able to use your short range weapons anyway....and quite honestly in that case change the mech or remove both ACs, install a second PPC and some big MRMs and additional heatsinks.

This may not make any sense, but it worked so far for me because:
When I go into brawling range, which you can't always force because either there are bunch of enemies behind the corner that will take you apart stat or your speed doesn't allow you for good flanking and retreat, you have to pick fights very carefully and mainly it worked as enemy push defense. Since ER PPC works at all ranges equally I either use as backup weaponry, to harass enemy and if I'm cold, I mix it up with AC fire, which result in pretty hardcore damage, otherwise I stick to AC in brawl range and if I mix up lasers up close it will spike my heat, because AC is pretty hot itself, less efficient than ER PPC for Alpha and all in all, having powerful backup weapons that can still kill at any distance even when you have no more AC rounds felt rather helpful thus far.

I might reconsider it later, but my experience with any Med Lasers weren't so good on IS mechs. For example, Clan ones have way longer distance, so it supposed to be far more effective. I'll definitely try laser brawler (I think Nova) when I transfer to Clans. Having mech with weapons specialized in same (small) distance didn't prove quite as effective so far...

Side question:
Locust or Raven for light IS mech? (gotta put reminder that I somehow can't enjoy knee-joint leg mechs as much).

[Horseman]

Dragonporn, on 10 January 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

Locust or Raven for light IS mech? (gotta put reminder that I somehow can't enjoy knee-joint leg mechs as much).

Locust goes faster (if you max the engine), Raven is a bit more durable and has an ECM variant that doesn't cost premium currency.

Burning2nd, on 10 January 2018 - 11:05 AM, said:

there are a lot of combinations that you guys dont do

Such as?

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because you use the stupid *** online mech builder ****....

What exactly is your issue with Smurfy's Mechlab and why do you assume that we're not using certain builds because of Smurfy's rather than something inherent to the builds themselves?

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Dont come here and act like you have figured out how pgi works.. lol cause you lie'n

I haven't seen such a claim in this thread. Where do you see one?

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and if you spend less time posting and more time in the seat.. you would know

Who was this remark directed at?

Edited by Horseman, 10 January 2018 - 04:21 PM.

[Ruccus]

Dragonporn, on 10 January 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

Side question:
Locust or Raven for light IS mech? (gotta put reminder that I somehow can't enjoy knee-joint leg mechs as much).

They're surprisingly different mechs considering they're in the same class. There seems to be one general rule when piloting a Locust: Don't Stop. Keep running and keep shooting, and just be the general pain in the butt hit-and-run light mech. A 180XL or 190XL engine is highly recommended because you need the speed to get out of trouble and I've found below 145kph is the speed in which I start to become less of a pain and more of an easy target.

For the Raven you can put a big engine in it and do similar tactics to the Locust but at around 130kph (not as easy to avoid the enemy shots, but you're more durable), or with the RVN-3L you can be a dual ERLL ECM sniper. The RVN-4X and Huginn also have the ability to become the 'Boomraven' (AC20 carrier) and 'Gaussraven' (Gauss Rifle) though you're stuck at around 80kph so it plays like a really fragile medium mech. Surprisingly fun builds though.

If you haven't sold it (I try not to sell engines) one of the Raven variants might be a good place to put your Bushwacker's stock 275XL engine.

[IllCaesar]

Ruccus, on 10 January 2018 - 06:15 PM, said:

They're surprisingly different mechs considering they're in the same class. There seems to be one general rule when piloting a Locust: Don't Stop. Keep running and keep shooting, and just be the general pain in the butt hit-and-run light mech. A 180XL or 190XL engine is highly recommended because you need the speed to get out of trouble and I've found below 145kph is the speed in which I start to become less of a pain and more of an easy target.

For the Raven you can put a big engine in it and do similar tactics to the Locust but at around 130kph (not as easy to avoid the enemy shots, but you're more durable), or with the RVN-3L you can be a dual ERLL ECM sniper. The RVN-4X and Huginn also have the ability to become the 'Boomraven' (AC20 carrier) and 'Gaussraven' (Gauss Rifle) though you're stuck at around 80kph so it plays like a really fragile medium mech. Surprisingly fun builds though.

If you haven't sold it (I try not to sell engines) one of the Raven variants might be a good place to put your Bushwacker's stock 275XL engine.

I've been having some luck in my Huginn as a RAC5 gunner too. Nobody reallly targets the Raven so you don't need to poke and retreat as much as you'd expect allowing you to land much more damage than you normally would with a Gauss or AC20. Meanwhile JJs help get up to higher places. Running an SRM2 with a half ton ammo as backup really hurts the potential but is ultimately necessary. The 4X, despite not having the C-Bill bonus or JJs, is probably slightly better suited to the role because there is less of an ammo shortage. You can fit two MLs or two SLs and still end up with more ammo because you're not running JJs. I run it with a XL225 so it runs at a reliable 105 KPH.

I tried something similar in my Panther-10P but found it runs better with its stock engine and two SRM4s and a RAC2 than a single SRM2 and a RAC5 with an XL225. I dunno what it is but folks seem to target the Panther more so beefing up its backup became necessary. The RAC2 rarely runs dry with two tons of ammo, and I'm actually more likely to run out for the SRMs first with its two tons of ammo.

[Dragonporn]

I think I'll stop at Raven, thanks. Is something like that even remotely viable or a complete overkill?
RVN-3L (Recon)
Idea is to make invisible, fast, full blown scout/spotter for the team and avoid combat as much as possible?

Another option is semi-spotter/scout with ECM, Tag and Streak SRMs, not sure how to build it and how effective S-SRMs are though...
And third option, as mentioned above: ER L-Laser sniper. I had much fun with Trial (C) variant, despite the fact it is built rather poorly. If built right, I'm sure I'd have a blast with it.

Edited by Dragonporn, 10 January 2018 - 11:32 PM.

[Koniving]

S-SRMs are reasonably effective but they have the issue that you cannot control where they 'want' to hit. They will attack limbs about as often as they attack side torsos and rarely go for the center torso.

The build could be viable. More suited to a group but at long as someone brought LRMs or ATMs, you're good as gold. Being followed by a Streak boat could do well for you, too.

Just don't take on 3 mechs at once with just two ER ML. Or anyone 'fresh'.

[Leone]

Dragonporn, on 10 January 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

Side question:
Locust or Raven for light IS mech? (gotta put reminder that I somehow can't enjoy knee-joint leg mechs as much).

I'm personally a fan of the locust, but, looking at what you want outta the light, the raven's prolly the best bet for you. Honestly, as to your questing of Streaks or normal srms, I feel that as a light, you should be fast enough to place the missiles where you want, and should be running around enough to not wanna hafta maintain locks for the streaks. Classic boom and zoom, get in, drop some damage, get out. But again, that's considering my own playstyle.

Now if you did wanna go streak, you could do ...This, but your pretty much just a light hunter, and I'd feel undergunned. Notice however, what happens when you drop streak, you could have, something more like This. Streaks are heavy, and lights need to optimize their tonnage as much as possible.

@Horseman, It's not worth engaging. We've a decent thread going, don't let the trolls side track ya.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 11 January 2018 - 08:51 AM.

[Dragonporn]

Good suggestions there, folks. Few things I just wanted to make clear:
- I shoved L-AMS there just because I have literally nothing else to install, and as far as I know, Stealth armor makes heat dissipation pretty slow, thus running any hot (Laser) weaponry would be inadequate, just put there as last resort when I absolutely have to fight back, at that point I'll have to turn off Stealth though.
- Do I even need AMS as extra since running ECM + Stealth?
- As far as I know, normal SRM without Artemis has quite big spread, I noticed it while was running my BSW-X2 SRM build. With Artemis, missiles hitbox was much tighter. That was the reason I considered S-SRM over it, plus since I already had Tag... But tonnage capacity wouldn't allow me to do this.

By the way, BSW-X2 LB 10-X feels MUCH better than SRM build, partially for the reason I'm running pretty cold with it and partially for superior range, but still having trouble with good positioning. No idea why Mediums are so hard for me, still gotta much to learn.

[Leone]

So, I placed ams as added protection because it can be useful, and since you thought highly enough of it to add to your already limited heat by throwing Laser ams in. Here's the thing, laser ams will never run outta ammo, but will increase your heat. Stealth armour, when engaged keeps you from lowering your heat. Completely. Ergo, you'll wanna be toggling the L-ams off every time you go stealth. It'll also give away your position.

Here's the thing about ams and ecm. Narc beacons have three hit points, and can be shot down by ams. Streak srms have two, and lrms have one. By being able to shoot down a narc beacon from range, you're protecting yourself from being lit up for targeting, and, once targeted, being able to turn on ams, gives you free protection whilst you make for cover. I like to max armour then add ams for even more damage reduction. But then, I also like getting in the thick of it, and need that little extra.

Now, on srms and spread. Yeah, when your inna bushwhacker, and you're trying to hit something over there, you'll see the spread, and you've tonnage enough to artemis is, if'n you want. With a light, you are the damage delivery device. You can rush in, get the missiles off, and bug out.

I've a walkthrough here specifically covering light tanking that covers conceptually, why you might do it, and goes over movement options for survivability. If you want the short of it, don't run in straight lines, and hit em from behind. You can see the culmination of these tactics here but sadly the flamers got nerfed and rendered this addition moot. (I also may've been the cause of the nerf inadvertently, by showcasing how to take advantage of them.)

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 11 January 2018 - 10:41 AM.

[Brizna]

Leone, on 11 January 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

Narc beacons have three hit points, and can be shot down by ams.

I've never seen AMS fire against NARC and I used to use it some time ago, can you show evidence to support your claim?

[Leone]

Brizna, on 11 January 2018 - 12:49 PM, said:

I've never seen AMS fire against NARC and I used to use it some time ago, can you show evidence to support your claim?

Nope! Haven't noticed it in any matches I've got on hand. I'm just quoting what I've picked up over the years on these forums.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 11 January 2018 - 01:26 PM.

[Horseman]

Dragonporn, on 11 January 2018 - 09:44 AM, said:

- I shoved L-AMS there just because I have literally nothing else to install, and as far as I know, Stealth armor makes heat dissipation pretty slow, thus running any hot (Laser) weaponry would be inadequate, just put there as last resort when I absolutely have to fight back, at that point I'll have to turn off Stealth though.
- Do I even need AMS as extra since running ECM + Stealth?

AMS will work against dumbfire missiles as well. HOWEVER, it will also telegraph your position in the process. Personally I'd refrain from using it on a stealth mech.

[Dragonporn]

Got Hellbringer from the holiday event for free, really glad I didn't sell it as i learned rule of thumb: never sell anything. So, experimented a bit with it. I thought it is standard heavy brawler mech, but it appears this mech is actually heavy poker (poker? hmm...) which was a surprise for me, because when I tried to brawl, either I got almost 1/2-alphas in CT and dead, or if I twisted, my arms and side torsos got brutalized in seconds and I was just walking, helpless piece of metal. It was very unusual, since my Bushwacker can literally facetank heavy multiple mech fire and even kill stuff in process, lose useless parts and bail, when HBR gets stomped. After some tinkering came up with this:
HBR-F
Don't even tell me this build sucks because:
a. You haven't seen previous versions.
b. I'm literally ready for anything other than next boring lasvomit build. I want to keep some distance from meta whenever I can.
It actually works alright, not like I'm big fan of Clan or knee-joint mechs in general, but what I'm interested in is skill tree, I have not a slightest idea how to build it. Another problem that I may be fine with my current build, but that doesn't mean it's final, so I don't know how to distribute points and don't get screwed in the process unless I would want to do some tweaks later...

Side questions:
- I have foggy idea about what arm actuators do, even after some reading on it, I must be really slow, but anyway:
If I don't use weapons in my arms, can lower arm actuators somehow help me to shield better? Any use at all?
- Does mech weight affect damage legs receive from falling?
- Does Seismic Sensor give any feed of enemy positions to my allies?
- Not familiar with Battle Tech universe that much but is the actual mech fist fight a thing?

Also looking for recommendations on super aggressive, sturdy medium-to-assault Clan chickenwalker-brawler mech which is very good with MGs (HMGs?), micro lasers and some other in-your-face stuff.

Edited by Dragonporn, 21 January 2018 - 06:40 PM.

[Horseman]

Dragonporn, on 21 January 2018 - 06:39 PM, said:

Side questions:
- I have foggy idea about what arm actuators do, even after some reading on it, I must be really slow, but anyway:
If I don't use weapons in my arms, can lower arm actuators somehow help me to shield better? Any use at all?

They affect the range of movement for your arm reticule. If you remove lower arms, you cannot move your arms horizontally.

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- Does mech weight affect damage legs receive from falling?

AFAIK yes.

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- Does Seismic Sensor give any feed of enemy positions to my allies?

Not unless they're dead and spectating you.

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- Not familiar with Battle Tech universe that much but is the actual mech fist fight a thing?

Punching, kicking, ramming, aerial ramming and beating your opponents with their (or perhaps your) own severed limbs.
http://www.sarna.net...hysical_Attacks
http://www.sarna.net...y:Melee_Weapons

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Also looking for recommendations on super aggressive, sturdy medium-to-assault Clan chickenwalker-brawler mech which is very good with MGs (HMGs?), micro lasers and some other in-your-face stuff.

I think you're looking for the Shadow Cat.

[Dragonporn]

Thanks. I actually like Shadow Cat looks and cockpit view a lot. It has pretty weird hardpoint placements though, but after some looking up builds and tinkering in smurfy:
SHC-A
Would something like this work?

I think there's serious lack in armor, not sure if I can compensate it with skill tree. Also heat sink placements feels scary, and mainly, is it worth trading DPS for range in case of LMG?

Wanna experience as many play styles as possible, but this particular build looks more of a kamikaze type to me. Isn't it?

As a side question:
- How useful Advanced Zoom is? PPC/Gauss users are the ones who mainly going for it? Because it didn't really work with my sniper Raven, since I have to re-position all the time and shooting on the run a lot, so standard max zoom usually cuts it for me. Am I doing it wrong?

[BTGbullseye]

That looks like you're going to melt your mech with the Heavies, then try to use the MGs for about 2 seconds...

Advanced Zoom is as useful as you feel it is. If you need the extra zoom to be able to accurately hit a target, no matter the distance, it will be good for you. If you don't need it, you can save a skill point for something else.

[Dragonporn]

Yeah, heavies are hot, but double coolshot kinda helps out with it. Have been testdriving this build for quite a while now and it requires very particular playstyle, namely: at the begging serve as Assault escort, because this mech can shred 1-2 Lights easily, or at least drive them away, since it looks scary with 6 LMGs and stuff. Then when combat gets more close and personal, charge in and chew off mech parts with no armor, LMG are quite good at.

From the the other perspective, this mech is literally born for poptart. High hardpoints, low profile. With MASC it's king of peak & shoot because you get instant acceleration both forward and backwards and with its Jump Jets it flies like rocket. I'm kinda wondering if Horseman made a joke suggesting SHC for what I requested, but either way I enjoy current LMG/H-Laser build a lot, it's definitely my third favorite mech so far. Btw, getting into the mech without MASC after SHC feels so uncomfortably clunky now...

Edited by Dragonporn, 03 February 2018 - 03:36 PM.

[Dragonporn]

Need a couple more advices here regarding clan mechs, need 1 Light, Heavy and Assault. Trying to choose between:
1. Cougar vs. Kit Fox
2. Mad Dog vs. Timberwolf
3. Supernova vs. Direwolf (why Supernova is so cheap? DWF costs more even with huge discount.)

Would really appreciate pointers about pros and cons of them, which one is generally good for what, if one is somewhat better than the other and etc. Also would be great if you suggest particular variants if it is relevant.

Btw, swapped laser sniper kit of my RVN-3L into this:
RVN-3L (Recon)
This mech is unbelievable. It is highly dependent on team, particularly if they pay attention and have sufficient missiles. If they do, it is freaking game changer. I didn't get high scores or lots of damage/kills with it, but dragging out game from losing something like 4-7 into 12-8 is real. And on top of it all, it is incredibly satisfying to be such a huge assist to the team and big annoyance to the enemy. Had no idea Stealth is THAT useful... One question though, is there any sense running ECM in disrupt mode while in stealth? Isn't counter more useful?

[Leone]

The Crit-lynx is a big favourite. Something along the lines of 4xHS, 8xMG. As for heavies, I'd suggest Vultures for missiles or Mad-cats for everything else. Sorry, Mad-dogs for missiles. Still not sure either the Dire or the Supernova is worth fitting inna a drop deck. It just feels too front loaded for the weight limit.

~Leone.

[Yumoshiri]

Dragonporn, on 07 February 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

Need a couple more advices here regarding clan mechs, need 1 Light, Heavy and Assault. Trying to choose between:
1. Cougar vs. Kit Fox
2. Mad Dog vs. Timberwolf
3. Supernova vs. Direwolf (why Supernova is so cheap? DWF costs more even with huge discount.)

Would really appreciate pointers about pros and cons of them, which one is generally good for what, if one is somewhat better than the other and etc. Also would be great if you suggest particular variants if it is relevant.

1. They are both lights that serve a similar purpose: hang out with a fatty. They can both boat ECM. So the key question is - what do you want? Cougar can pack more weapons, much more in fact, and is a little sturdier. However, it goes 16 kph's slower, which makes the cougar more difficult to play: bad positioning, and poor awareness of the environment will get you killed. Kitfox support builds usually make use of tripple AMS, which is only situational nice on lurm maps. Build ideas for support cougar: atm/srm + lasers, or uac + lasers, in combination with double AMS or ECM. Kitfox: 3 AMS ecm + machine guns / lasers.

2. i don't like heavies.

3. supernova is cheaper because it has no omnipods, and comes someones with standard engines, and without upgrades (double heat sinks or Endo). So in the end, all the costs add up to a roughly equal price, I expect. Both are slow fatties, and it's a matter of taste. The advantage of direwolves is that you can replace the omnipods and change it completely when you get bored: switch ballistic build to energy build or vice versa. With supernova's you'll be stuck with energy weapons, except for the Shamernova (A variant with missiles), or Boiler, the hero. Personally, I would not recommend buying any assault that goes slower than 60 unless you are either a masochist, or plan to play it in groups with friends.

side note on the kitfox: most non-support builds on the kitfox can be equipped to greater effect on adders; unless you have the hero kitfox.