77 replies to this topic

[Remover of Obstacles]

Maybe we should go at this with a different approach and give Clan mediums +92 armor quirks.

Although allowing 55 tonners on both sides does seem easier and more logical.

[K O Z A K]

Longhammer, on 01 January 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

That's super easy to say, isn't it? But it doesn't mean much when we're sitting in a thread full of clanners complaining about brawling not working all the time for them when it's the only thing IS does almost as well, not IS players complaining about issues where the only reliable answers given amount to "well then start playing clans."

Maybe you might illustrate your point with some examples.

I don't...what am I supposed to illustrate with examples? That Clan players are pro complainers about scouting and IS players are complaining about Invasion? while people who play both sides seem to be able to do really well capitalizing on the particular sides strengths?

[paws2sky]

For everyone upset about the 4v4 brawl and how IS is dominating...

There's a Clan meta too. There are the Huntsmen missile boats, HBK IIC AC or laser boats, and Nova SL brawlers (also good for melting legs). All are effective. Other than a Mist Lynx and a couple Shadow Cats on Saturday afternoon, this is all I've seen. (Did you know an SRM Hugsman can one-shot a BSW? I found that out the hard way.)

And then there was that prefab team of 4 IFR-P with ecm, lasers, and heavy sensor amd mobility tree investment. Better range than IS S/SRMs. Faster. Tanky as can be expected. Virtually immune to IS SSRM meta. This group was taking left legs and squirelling like bosses. Excellent cover fire and obvious VoiP comms. Not only did they decimate, they did it consistently. The IS meta changed in response to that strategy. SRMs replaced SSRMs. ACs appeared. One guy had gotten so fed up with them to switch over to LLs to be able to hit them as they ran. Sorry I didn't get their clan tag, because hats off to those guys.

EDIT: Ice Ferret will be on sale soon. Just sayin'. (Jan 3-9)

The #1 reason that IS (and Clan!) switched to SSRMs this time around, is that the 250 match score requirement drove the meta toward high damage outputs with low kill numbers. Farming damage, in other words. Since kills don't matter, even when you lose, why not play to the actual objective?

Really, the fix is to rework match score rewards amd challenge requirements for scouting.

Change the challenge requirements and and the meta will follow.

-paws

P.S. Teamwork is still OP. VoIP is a best practice. Use command wheel if you can't use VoIP. Typing is useless once you have contact with the enemy. At the very least pick a target that someone else is shooting at and concentrate fire.

P.P.S. If you think BSWs are OP, you really need to do a little research. Their hitboxes are weird and... well... I encourage you to visit youtube. Some Clanners had clearly figured out where the weak spots are and were exploiting that with their builds and playstyle. Cheers to those folks.

Edited by paws2sky, 01 January 2018 - 04:51 PM.

[UrbanTarget]

The weak spots are the legs... get everyone to focus one leg of one splat bushy at a time, then move away before focusing the next one.

Focus the shortest range ones first as they will ne the most affected by loss of a leg/mobility

[Solink]

Hazeclaw, on 29 December 2017 - 06:08 PM, said:

I can already see speed tweaked atm crows kiting bushies......sooo many IS pilots will rage quit scouting

maybe lowering IS to 50 would make more sense

Speed tweaked crows run about 104. Griffin 2Ns are able to keep up with that. Not to mention your assassins and cicada's, easily can keep up with them.

[K O Z A K]

Solink, on 02 January 2018 - 11:15 AM, said:

Speed tweaked crows run about 104. Griffin 2Ns are able to keep up with that. Not to mention your assassins and cicada's, easily can keep up with them.

Assassins and cicadas are weak against crappy homing missiles (streaks/atms) which are used in abundance in scouting. Listen I personally don't care. I will probably be going back to clan shortly, and will gladly use the mech that lets me play drunk and get 600dmg in scouting every drop without even having to aim, but the IS tears will be real

[MovinTarget]

Solink, on 02 January 2018 - 11:15 AM, said:

Speed tweaked crows run about 104. Griffin 2Ns are able to keep up with that. Not to mention your assassins and cicada's, easily can keep up with them.

but still, as said before, would love to see the max tonnage dropped in one of 2 ways:
1) max 40-45 tons per pilot

-or-

2) be similar to group queue in that your tonnage pool gets choked as you get more pilots in a premade group
i.e.
Group size -> Max Tonnage
1 -> 55t
2 -> 105t
3 -> 150t
4 -> 195t


...maybe both!

Edited by MovinTarget, 02 January 2018 - 11:33 AM.

[Throe]

I just took a Dual LB20-X AC HBK-IIC and I did fine. I ended up tweaking the load out slightly, removing the jump jets I love so much entirely in favor of a HML. The HML makes a huge difference, especially on cooler maps, and as a backup weapon, since you really can't bring enough ammo for a long game.

[bayoucowboy]

Throe, on 02 January 2018 - 12:57 PM, said:

I just took a Dual LB20-X AC HBK-IIC and I did fine. I ended up tweaking the load out slightly, removing the jump jets I love so much entirely in favor of a HML. The HML makes a huge difference, especially on cooler maps, and as a backup weapon, since you really can't bring enough ammo for a long game.

This post is why we ignore your clan tears.

[Remover of Obstacles]

It will be interesting to see the stats for this event.

I am finding lots of games where the clan team is out damaging the IS team by 40% or more and still losing.

[Roland09]

Most often, this is the result of the Clan team bringing Streaks and / or ATMs, which are good at stripping armor, but less than ideal at concentrating on components.

Being Tier 1, I think you know this very well.

[Void Angel]

Wait, wait.. "streak meta?" For real? Streaks have never been preferable to SRMs in a brawl, and while they do kill Lights well, there are other options that do so almost as well without the random-location splash damage. The only reason I would ever consider a streakboat would be if nearly all the matches were against wolfpacks of Light 'mechs.

The reason I ask is that I've been taking a break from FW for a while, but when I left people were insisting on bringing SSRM-boating Stormcrows to Scouting, and people were whining about how overpowered they were; the rest of us just told them to bring SRMs, ACs, and lasers - plus some focus fire and marksmanship.

[K O Z A K]

Clan streaks do have 1 advantage over srms, +100m range. They're also good for killing magic mechs like assassin/commando. Other than that theyve never been meta. They were good for the event to maximize dmg as that was the objective. They are strong when both opponents have bad aim, if both sides are missing 2/3 of their shots (which is not uncommon from what Ive seen during the event) and streaks hit most of the time tho all over the place its better than missing. Ease of use can be a deciding factor in lower skill matches

[Mistriever]

MischiefSC, on 30 December 2017 - 01:26 PM, said:

Work the range. Stay at 300m.

Ffs don't bring lrms/ATMs. Or erlls.

Closest should be 2 hlls, 2cermls on an HBK IIC on Polar and Frozen.

MPLs at 300m+ for at *least* 3 burns before you close.

Pick the LT on Bushies.

If you use your range advantage you're a coward or using scumbag tactics...salt is real when you do anything other than brawl vs IS in scouting

[Asym]

Oh good grief ! Anything works when a team operates as a team ! We've created "pick-up" teams for the events that were fun and very good at decimating IS BSW centric drops... We weren't all in the same mechs..... We weren't from the same team..... We were having fun !

The re-introduction of the Storm Crow would be a major "issue" for the IS side... Speed is decisive. In the military it's always been: Move, Shoot and Communicate. Notice Move is first? It's not shoot, communicate and move for a reason..... Mobility is the most important attribute there is... It's what controls the tempo of the fight.

Crows run at 104. BSW's don't. BSW's can close with HMM, HBK's now and decimate them. That won't happen with the Crows if the pilots have any sense. In a MTC (Movement to Contact) being able to break contact is life......and a BSW can't control the battlespace anymore and can't close.... Streaks have longer range and as the SCR breaks contact, well the BSW's eat missles and are attritted..... It would force the IS to split and that isn't effective either. There will be an IS scream and everyone will jump into faster mechs and then, the game changes yet again.

But, Clans should get the SCR back IMO....

Edited by Asym, 08 January 2018 - 06:01 AM.

[UrbanTarget]

Asym, on 08 January 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

Oh good grief ! Anything works when a team operates as a team ! We've created "pick-up" teams for the events that were fun and very good at decimating IS BSW centric drops... We weren't all in the same mechs..... We weren't from the same team..... We were having fun !

The re-introduction of the Storm Crow would be a major "issue" for the IS side... Speed is decisive. In the military it's always been: Move, Shoot and Communicate. Notice Move is first? It's not shoot, communicate and move for a reason..... Mobility is the most important attribute there is... It's what controls the tempo of the fight.

Crows run at 104. BSW's don't. BSW's can close with HMM, HBK's now and decimate them. That won't happen with the Crows if the pilots have any sense. In a MTC (Movement to Contact) being able to break contact is life......and a BSW can't control the battlespace anymore and can't close.... Streaks have longer range and as the SCR breaks contact, well the BSW's eat missles and are attritted..... It would force the IS to split and that isn't effective either. There will be an IS scream and everyone will jump into faster mechs and then, the game changes yet again.

But, Clans should get the SCR back IMO....

SCrows have more speed, but not necessarily more mobility. Depending on the map, JJ may be more important... Having said that, people often don't know *HOW* to use JJs and end up easy pickings in the air, or in that split second you are immobile when you land. (Hint: never dead-fall, save some juice to make your descent irregular/unpredicatble, try to use your JJ to drop into cover/out of range so they can shoot you the moment you land)

[Mzis Kari]

Just bought BSW-X1 just to make it clear if it is OP or not. And it definitely is.

It acts basically like a honeybadger. It goes where it wants at a reasonable speed. It kills what it wants. If it gets hit it... you might suppose it begins to twist it torso and tries to break line of sight? No! It doesn't give a single **** and resumes to move on it's own business - and it's good for you as you might got it's attention and you didn't! The only way to meet it and stay alive is to keep the distance, which is only possible if you run 83+kph on your backpedal.The only way to send this tiny monster to its hangar is to drop 200+ tons on top of it. All of this with no SP invested at all, and I wonder what monstosity this thing will become after I max out its survivability tree.

It does not matter if Clans got 5ssrm crows as 104kph is just not enough. We've already got 4srm hunchie and 6ssrm huntsman. I'm running LBX40, 6mpl and 4srma+2mpl HBKIIC's personally and I've found not a single way they are superior or even equal to BSW-X1, nor is HMN that I've ran previously. You can kite it, but you cannot outbrawl it in the same weight class. Clan kiters are easily countered with assassins, not to mention some maps are just bad for kiting.

There is STILL no salt in my post. No, really, cause some days you get the mail, some days the mail gets you, and it is just not our day today. It's okay to lose in a battle of equals. Trouble is IS posess couple of universal 'point towards enemy' setups that can be countered by specialized clan 'all our skill, teamplay and devotion' ones only. Trouble is IS gets some fun while clans get no more than sweet, and I know next time I enter the scouting queue I'll meet at least three BSW in opfor, which is just boring.

The best solution I've seen on this thread is to issue team tonnage limit instead of personal, thus overcoming imba setups in favor of diversity. Moreover, it is not quite necessary to form 4x4 teams as tonnage limit would be more than enough. I'd personally like to oppose half of Steiner scout lance for example in one match and 3BSW+Jenner in another, no matter what I choose as my ride. Just to make it more diverse and unpredictable. Hope some dev reads this tread.

[Tier5ForLife]

The Clan Streak is not what it used to be.

I'm a little surprised that the Stormcrow are not back yet but I think that PGI wanted the Weedwackers to do well for a while.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Mzis Kari, on 12 January 2018 - 10:47 AM, said:

You can kite it, but you cannot outbrawl it in the same weight class. Clan kiters are easily countered with assassins, not to mention some maps are just bad for kiting.

There is one major flaw in your logic here regarding the IS countering Clan kiting with assassins. They (the IS) would have to know pre-drop that you are bringing ranged kiting mechs. Then they could drop assassins and counter. But that isn’t how the game is designed..you only know what you are really up against after your mech selection is locked.

As it is you see far less Assassins than bushwhackers (even though both are very good mechs), because kiting hasn’t been overly used on the clan side and Streak Huntsman are used regularly by the clans.....and while those streak huntsman are not good against bushwackers, they eat assassins alive.

If more Clan teams successfully kite (at least on maps that are made to support it), it will force pre-drop changes on the IS side (less bushwackers...more assassins or something else fast or with range). It’s just the basics of counter-play

[K O Z A K]

Mzis Kari, on 12 January 2018 - 10:47 AM, said:

Just bought BSW-X1 just to make it clear if it is OP or not. And it definitely is.

It acts basically like a honeybadger. It goes where it wants at a reasonable speed. It kills what it wants. If it gets hit it... you might suppose it begins to twist it torso and tries to break line of sight? No! It doesn't give a single **** and resumes to move on it's own business - and it's good for you as you might got it's attention and you didn't! The only way to meet it and stay alive is to keep the distance, which is only possible if you run 83+kph on your backpedal.The only way to send this tiny monster to its hangar is to drop 200+ tons on top of it. All of this with no SP invested at all, and I wonder what monstosity this thing will become after I max out its survivability tree.

It does not matter if Clans got 5ssrm crows as 104kph is just not enough. We've already got 4srm hunchie and 6ssrm huntsman. I'm running LBX40, 6mpl and 4srma+2mpl HBKIIC's personally and I've found not a single way they are superior or even equal to BSW-X1, nor is HMN that I've ran previously. You can kite it, but you cannot outbrawl it in the same weight class. Clan kiters are easily countered with assassins, not to mention some maps are just bad for kiting.

There is STILL no salt in my post. No, really, cause some days you get the mail, some days the mail gets you, and it is just not our day today. It's okay to lose in a battle of equals. Trouble is IS posess couple of universal 'point towards enemy' setups that can be countered by specialized clan 'all our skill, teamplay and devotion' ones only. Trouble is IS gets some fun while clans get no more than sweet, and I know next time I enter the scouting queue I'll meet at least three BSW in opfor, which is just boring.

The best solution I've seen on this thread is to issue team tonnage limit instead of personal, thus overcoming imba setups in favor of diversity. Moreover, it is not quite necessary to form 4x4 teams as tonnage limit would be more than enough. I'd personally like to oppose half of Steiner scout lance for example in one match and 3BSW+Jenner in another, no matter what I choose as my ride. Just to make it more diverse and unpredictable. Hope some dev reads this tread.

The bushwacker will beat clan mediums in a knife fight, so if you want to win more often than lose, don't knife fight it

Unfortunately for clans in this case kiting with lasers (which is basically the current Clan scouting meta) is more difficult than just charging towards enemy spamming srms, so take that as you will. It's more difficult to win scouting as clan, but there are setups that once mastered will basically let you win practically every time

now when crow is allowed, it has 178 skilled out yaw angle, let that sink in for a second, one seventy eight. You can basically shoot streaks/atms in it while running straight away from your target chasing you. At least before when crows were in, there were no atms, and no skill tree yaw upgrades. Now all you'll have to do is load it with atms (take a few ER smalls if someone is silly enough to drop an assassin in scouting and it manages to get inside your missile barrier wrecked but still alive), go to an open area on the map, and just run away from IS brawlers chasing you spamming missiles. No aiming required, lots of damage farmed, clans winning scouting is easy mode, gg. It will be inefficient, it will be stupid, and salt will flow in rivers