59 replies to this topic

[Direwoof]

THIS ^ I loved beating up on Davion as Liao was some of the best time's ive ever had playing MWO.

[50 50]

The original map with the different faction territories was nice and true to the books, but it's a poor design for a PvP game where we as the players are the only inhabitants of the system.

It's not balanced. Some factions are at a massive disadvantage to begin with as they simply have less territory. Look at the FRR as an example.

It's restrictive as you couldn't fight an opponent unless you actually had a border with them, that meant if there were not enough players active on the opposite side of one of your borders, you couldn't play. As the majority of the focus centered on the Clan borders, factions like Davion, Liao and Marik couldn't face them.

It's also a big reason why we can't have planets with strategic value. The factions with smaller territories are immediately at a disadvantage as their key planets are too close to the borders.

The map is great for a single player game but it's not great for PvP.

Given the move to the single bucket was an effort to reduce wait times, I don't see why we shouldn't take that a step further and make it a free for all in the match maker between the factions.
It wouldn't split the queues.
It allows IS vs IS, Clan vs Clan and IS vs Clan battles to occur.
It means we can bring back the individual faction identities.

The only restrictions we need to enforce is to say that when you group up or form a team, you can only group up with players in the same faction and you do not pit your team against another team from the same faction.

If we rethink the map in a more abstract way with no borders, then we can create attack lanes and give planets modifiers which impact faction values and in turn the populations of the factions.
We can get back to that inter-faction conflict and beating the snot out of the enemy we chose.

[Johnathan Tanner]

bump

[iLLcapitan]

Its comical really, looking back as they introduced fines to punish big units - wished we had any of those left. Boys, all you said is true indeed but it seems PGI is ashamed to the core of what they did and wont touch the thing ever again. Faction identity as shallow as it was, still managed to do it for a large number of people. Game wont recover until another company takes over / fresh start on a new engine etc pp - even the smallest of efforts like matching IS vs IS (or clan vs clan) if theres nobody else to play, they just cant be arsed to give us that.

[Nightbird]

As long as there is no contract breaking penalties, I agree. If we need to we can all go to 1 faction on IS/Clan. Just get rid of merc bonus %s, 0 point at all to spreading the population out.

I would maintain the tug of war bar though, with a smaller number of wins needed so the game mode changes fast.

Edited by Nightbird, 21 March 2018 - 05:35 AM.

[VitriolicViolet]

Yeah Phase 3 really ended the mode, pre-phase 3 was actually a lot of fun. CW was pretty much the only mode i played until a few months into phase 3, there were certainly issues but also a decent population, it was common to see a 100 a side stack up on various planets.

Phase 3 was just brutal from crippling loyalists and adding lanes to the horribly implemented and ignored for way way too long (6+ months) Longtom. Personally it was The Dong that ended it for me, watching 3-6 allied or enemy mechs get vaporised once every minute thirty was bad and not enjoyable. It destroyed any semblance of co-ordination (apart from light bombing the enemy and getting them Donged) and handed an enormous advantage to a team likely to win anyway.

Since then ive played maybe 50 games of CW, this year ive had maybe 10. Ill probably have a go during the up coming event but in my opinion the mode is dead and buried, PGI havent even finished rolling out the 'new' tech weapon models and they are almost a year old. how long does it take to add new weapons for which the assets have existed for 9+ months?

[Black Ivan]

We don't have the players for this anymore.

[Bud Crue]

Black Ivan, on 23 March 2018 - 12:40 AM, said:

We don't have the players for this anymore.

If by “this” you mean returning the mode back to phase 2 in accordance with the title of the tread...
Oh I don’t know.
There is still a pretty dedicated cadre of FP players, and, I think, more than a few CW expats that would come back to the mode if PGI announced as part of their FP update (that Russ hinted as a possibility a few months after Solaris drops...not that I believe him at all, but still...”if”) that CW 5.0 would be the triumphant return of Phase 2...with improvements! Perhaps with more planetary rewards, increased rewards both for wins and losses, new loyalty/reputation rewards trees that don’t terminate, the removal or reduction of the unit tax, the broadening of the bucket to allow at least occasional IS v IS and Clan v Clan fights, and maybe a few GUI improvements to make finding a match and selecting mechs a bit more intuitive, then I think that would get a lot of people back in the mode. I know that a lot of folks I play group queue with regularly would be VERY interested in coming back to such a mode and I don’t think we are alone.

But yeah, you’re right. That’s just a dream I suppose. The population is not only not here, it is actively being directed away from here. My hope for a return to an improved phase 2 as articulated above is based on the assumption that PGI is interested in spending even a minimal amount of development time on the mode, and based on Russ’s comments and conduct of late (see his original announcement to essentially kill the mode for a few weeks after Solaris dropped that we hesitantly backed away from, as well as his tepid comments regarding possible future faction play development during his NGNG production update) I just don’t think PGI is going to waste any more real effort here at attracting players back to the mode. I think what we have now, is all we will have in the future as far as substantive features and game play characteristics of the mode is concerned.

Population is what it is and rather than make an effort to increase population here, I think they made a choice to try and accommodate the lower overall population of the game, and its presumed continued losses by pushing Solaris; a mode that will allow them to maintain viability with a much smaller population than a 12v12 mode requires. That is the future of the game and I can’t see them making further effort here, because in PGI’s collective mind, FP just takes players out of the already reduced population pool and redirects them from Solaris -the mode that Russ has made clear is the future of the game (see his comments regarding the rebranding of the game to MWO: Solaris-7).

So yeah, in the end, you are right. We don’t have the population for this. I sure would have loved to see PGI make some sort of effort though to attract population rather than actively try to drive folks out of the mode. Its a damn shame. This was the mode that brought me to the game and spend the obscene amounts of money that I have on it. I miss it.

[Terrorsdawn]

The population is out there, waiting for PGI to get there act together. Faction play can be saved but it has to start some where and going back to V2.0 is a good place to start. Followed by proper regulation and control of population. I know everyone wants to play the faction or roll they want but the free movement by units was a huge hit on FP. Faction stacking destroyed FP as much as Long Tom super nukes did. Before Mercs were officially introduced into the game some units were payed by players to move around and even then imbalance could be created within the game. PGI needs to engineer a UI that keeps the population better balanced. *I put a helmet on so go ahead and throw stuff at me for saying that*

[MischiefSC]

justcallme A S H, on 05 January 2018 - 05:01 AM, said:

Well Phase 3 came out some 3-4 months later IIRC. In terms of a development life cycle etc, what was coming was already well and truly decided upon.

Totally agree - just adding bits and pieces would've been better than LongTom, Loyalist Blockage and Single Queue's - 3 totally incorrect moves.

If only some sexy genius had predicted that before. Literally laid out that without faction identity the loyalists would quit. The loyalists were the active player driven force for recruiting, training and onboarding people for FW and the constantly dropping backbone of the population regardless of who was getting tags, they were bringing in and keeping people playing and dropping. WIth them gone it started a decline spiral that's got us where we are now.

And also advised that you needed more population fluidity, not less to quickly facilitate filling in population imbalances since 1-2 week delays built into any means of responding to population imbalance would exacerbate the issue creating delayed see-sawing.

If only we had suggested an alliance mechanic so that if most the Clanners were attacking via CJF into Steiner, DCMS/Davion/Marik/Liao could vote to ally with Steiner, maintain faction identity and all fight attack/defense on the Steiner border - their wins tagging for themselves but adding to Steiner space. Then if there was dips in faction populations the other factions can and would fill in to get matches without losing identity.

So many good things suggested, so many ways to have fixed FW. So many people clearly identifying exactly why ideas were bad and what would happen months in advance that was just ignored.

Makes my heart hurt.

[darkcyd]

I never really got into FW and I've played since beta. I suppose I am somewhat bitter about it but I shouldn't be. Its not my job to make an available fun game mode.

The first year the game absolutely sucked. Introduction of LRM's and group play/solo queue being joined was aweful for everybody involved. ECM mechs were pay to win and after that, I said screw it, I'm done.

2 years later I came back really wanting to get into this game. With the steam release, I thought the population would surge and FW would be a super thing to try. About this time I found out how fast the long tom could make FW the biggest garbage ever. Again, I quit deciding this game was just determined to shoot itself in the foot.

Recently, I have gotten back into MW as QP only and it really has come a long way as a game. Its a good game now. The populations though just can't handle FP anymore. 9/10 Units on the Faction TS servers have left and are ghost towns. Those left play MBRC almost exclusively.

Its truely sad this game has let the honor of being the steward of Mechwarrior drift from being one of the premier PC titles to something for old geezers huddled in TS servers that nobody uses anymore. Without new players and new blood, the title will die soon and FP with it. If you really want to save FP, you should probably start there. I wish them luck with solaris. I'll sure try it, but their track record is less than stellar on execution of vision.

[Johnathan Tanner]

Bring it back.

[Davegt27]

FP 2.0 was pretty brutal

a ton of people left the game because of FP 2.0
if your going to do something to/for the game make it a real improvement

going back to the good old bad old days is not a good idea

[Johnathan Tanner]

Davegt27, on 27 March 2018 - 07:28 PM, said:

FP 2.0 was pretty brutal

a ton of people left the game because of FP 2.0
if your going to do something to/for the game make it a real improvement

going back to the good old bad old days is not a good idea

Care to explain that thought process? Are you sure your not thinking of 3.0?

[Doc Arachinus]

don't roast me for this but maybe for groups of 6 or more when dropping have to wait for another group of 6 or more if they have been activeily dropping in the last 25 minutes or so. Then the premades can fight each other and hopefully not just constantly pug stomp the pugs into submission till they decide QP is the only good mode. Yes this would mean if your 6 man or more finished a match and the only other group of 6 or more is currently deployed you would half to wait till they became available. Yes I know this could be a real killer but a lot of people who drop faction group up already, and I see how teams of skilled players could easily say screw it and all hit fight at once while solo trying to land in the same bucket anyways.

[Davegt27]

Johnathan Tanner, on 27 March 2018 - 07:30 PM, said:

Care to explain that thought process? Are you sure your not thinking of 3.0?

only the try-hards complained about the long-toms
us pugs where getting roll stomped anyway who cares if its buy a nuke or a team

bottom line the game mode is designed for teams or in other words teams are computer tweaked
to win (yeah yeah I know your a Mech piloting gods that's why you win)

back in FP 1 and 2.0 the amount of burtal beatings we took where hard to believe
more then a few players told me they would never play again

I am talking they could drop the gate kill all 3 gens and Omega before you could fire your weapons 5 times


all us pugs wanted to do is help teams out, if we could a team our hope was to prove to teams and ourselves
we where good enough to play with them

but instead we became advanced AI bots for teams to shoot at

after FP 3.0 PGI eased off
after all what's wrong with allowing the pugs to get some kills
and most importantly shoot there weapons


anyways the game mode needs real(or other) improvements like asymmetrical combat drops
like having lances drop where they cant join up easily they would have to fight each other first lance vs lance

this would effectively reduce the amount of fire power firing at one Mech

special ops missions for teams these could be MRBC type match ups with 8v8 or 12v12
the importance of these missions could be enhanced with better Galaxy logistics
like jump nodes and jump node costs, Jump ships and jump ship costs, value of planets

right now the game revolves around the value of your alpha strike

but in a true campaign mode
the economy takes a front seat (you need money to make your unit aka war machine function)

with game economy you seek to add versatility and levels to the game with out detracting from the core of the game

that means you want some logistics but not a lot of logistics
for example you don't want to get into counting bullets that would be to much logistics

JMTCW

Edited by Davegt27, 19 June 2018 - 10:11 PM.

[Johnathan Tanner]

Davegt27, on 28 March 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

only the try-hards complained about the long-toms

.......... Moving on.

[Iron Buccaneer]

Davegt27, on 28 March 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

only the try-hards complained about the long-toms
us pugs where getting roll stomped anyway who cares if its buy a nuke or a team

bottom line the game mode is designed for teams or in other words teams are computer tweaked
to win (yeah yeah I know your a Mech piloting gods that's why you win)

back in FP 1 and 2.0 the amount of burtal beatings we took where hard to believe
more then a few players told me they would never play again
I am talking they could drop the gate kill all 3 gens and Omega before you could fire your weapons 5 times

Teams win because of teamwork. Also the tech imbalance between IS and Clan was more pronounced in Phase 1 and 2. The tech is far more balanced now. In fact it is currently balanced against the Clans especially with the tonnage penalty. Heavy gauss is no joke.

[Pain G0D]

You know what I think would help FP not that I have too much of a problem with it mind you . I am s very satisfied player and customer .
FP should tickle nostalgia and promote balance yes ?


1. Only IS and Clan mechs with their original factory loadout are allowed on drop decks .

You think you are a good pilot because you copied mech specs and built an armless weapon of mass destruction with 4 AC 20,s in the chest and 1 armour point in the back ? Where is the fake reality here ? You give a soldier a tank who promptly removes the cannon and mounts 20, AK 47s ........in what universe ? Heck you should not even be given the choice of what mech to pilot unless you go merc ?



2. Halve the amount of Clan players say 6 clan mechs vs 12 IS mechs ? Clans are superior tech and they like to save resources . There is supposed to be a quality / quantity imbalance .


3. Either dont allow IIC,s or allow IS to field salvaged Clan Mechs or Clan weapons mounted in IS mechs at a hideous price or drop deck tonnage penalty .

Edited by Pain G0D, 30 March 2018 - 07:32 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Davegt27, on 28 March 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

only the try-hards complained about the long-toms
us pugs where getting roll stomped anyway who cares if its buy a nuke or a team

bottom line the game mode is designed for teams or in other words teams are computer tweaked
to win (yeah yeah I know your a Mech piloting gods that's why you win)

back in FP 1 and 2.0 the amount of burtal beatings we took where hard to believe
more then a few players told me they would never play again
I am talking they could drop the gate kill all 3 gens and Omega before you could fire your weapons 5 times


all us pugs wanted to do is help teams out, if we could our hope was to prove to teams and ourselves
we where good enough to play with them

but instead we became advanced AI bots for teams to shoot at

after FP 3.0 PGI eased off after all what's wrong with allowing the pugs to get some kills
and most importantly shoot there weapons


anyways the game mode needs real(or other) improvements like asymmetrical combat drops
like having lances drop where they cant join up easily they would have to fight each other first lance vs lance

this would effectively reduce the amount of fire power firing at one Mech

special ops missions for teams these could be MRBC type match ups with 8v8 or 12v12
the importance of these missions could be enhanced with better Galaxy logistics
like jump nodes and jump node costs, Jump ships and jump ship costs, value of planets

right now the game revolves around the value of your alpha strike but in a campaign mode
the economy takes a front seat (you need money to make your unit aka war machine function)

with game economy you seek to add versatility and levels to the game with out detracting from the core of the game
that means you want some logistics but not a lot for example you don't want to get into counting bullets that would be to much logistics

JMTCW

Teamwork always wins in MWO because it's a team game. It's always a team of 12 vs a team of 12. In the same way that if one team goes to Boreal set up for range and one team brings brawl the range team has the advantage or if it's Conquest and one team brings a couple of capping mechs and the other is 12 slow assaults the team with capping mechs has an advantage any team that plays to the realities of the teamwork mechanic that is fundamentally part of FW is going to have an advantage.

There absolutely were some balance issues in Phases 1.0 and 2.0, no question. Some sort of economic or logistic component is a great idea and I'm a big fan of it.

Lance v lance combat already exists in Scouting and it also involves coordinated groups typically beating uncoordinated groups for the same reason. There is not unfortunately some sort of matchmaking component that is going to negate the reality of this being a team game. That's why Solaris was created; 1 v 1 is literally the only way to get away from the inherent balance issues of teamwork being as powerful as it is in a game that at its design core is a team game.

I think what people are talking about for Phase 2 is that faction membership was relevant. That's what people are wanting to get back to. Not the balance issues, I think we're all pretty good with keeping the current balance mechanics (probably with a few tweaks but it's better than it's been in a long while) but that sense of FW being about Factions Warring.