67 replies to this topic

[Niebaum]

Who could have guessed?

Another "scouting sucks" thread

[Kaeb Odellas]

Samial, on 03 January 2018 - 11:12 PM, said:

Yeah i guess we wouldn't want to use our brains or anything...

BSW with LX 10 MRMs and a few medium lasers...

There's nothing particularly "brainy" about standing next to a glowy thing for 5 seconds.

And brawls aren't exactly mindless affairs either. There's a skill in picking good lines for approach, identifying the most dangerous target to focus down, breaking LOS to disrupt enemy attempts at focus fire, etc.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 03 January 2018 - 11:35 PM.

[LordNothing]

i played scouting for my last 20 or so matches, only needing 50 having completed all my 250 score bags. all but one of them had half the team throw the other half under the bus just so they could farm damage on crippled mechs at the end of the game. then they too would die because they didnt fight as a team. if invasion was a tater salad then scouting was mashed taters. because it seemed like a gathering place for all the pugs who weren't good enough to score in invasion. so the tactics have been quite dirty.

[Mystere]

Niebaum, on 03 January 2018 - 11:35 PM, said:

Who could have guessed?

Another "scouting sucks" thread

Well, to be honest, an alleged "scouting" game mode that does not involve any real "scouting" does kinda suck.

Kaeb Odellas, on 03 January 2018 - 11:35 PM, said:

And brawls aren't exactly mindless affairs either. There's a skill in picking good lines for approach, identifying the most dangerous target to focus down, breaking LOS to disrupt enemy attempts at focus fire, etc.

I think you're very much overestimating the mental capacity of much of the current player base.

Edited by Mystere, 03 January 2018 - 11:41 PM.

[Requiemking]

justcallme A S H, on 03 January 2018 - 11:34 PM, said:

You have a full 90 seconds. Plenty of time to gather a further 4-8 points (on top of the 3-5 you already have). Spawn locations are near same every map, so it's not hard.

Usually there is w players left as well, so one go DZ and collect, one just collect. When playing that silly mode, I've always had time to collect at least 4-5 points at minimum... But then, that's what is capable in organised play.

Except for the slight problem that occurs when you end up with a map larger than, say, Canyon. See, with most maps, 90 seconds is only enough time for the average brawler build to reach the drop zone if they already knew where it was. Even then, on some of the really large maps, thats still not enough time. Not to mention that the spawn points for the intel are randomised from round to round, so if you are lucky then, yes, you will gather extra points on the way.

[justcallme A S H]

If I can still manage to gather plenty on Polar / Grim - it's not a problem.

85km/h+ is more than enough to travel 1/3 the map on Polar or there about. But then the points are not spread to the corners, they are all within about 8 squares or so

Edited by justcallme A S H, 04 January 2018 - 01:52 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Did scouting all night yesterday, actually seemed pretty good all around. Pretty good balance between the factions if both teams coordinate, possibly slight edge to IS because of the Bushwhackers (Though this might be a biased impression because we ran as a strong group) .

I'd give Clan their Stormcrows back, you never see that mech anywhere else these days so it would be nice to give it the scouting niche.

Wolfhound-1B Works great as a counter to all the missile based clan brawlers, those quirked AMS neuters ATM and Streakboats.

Never found gathering intel or reaching the dropship a problem so far.

Edited by Sjorpha, 04 January 2018 - 02:16 AM.

[Vellron2005]

For me, scouting has never been any fun, and I avoid the mode as much as possible..

When I can't avoid it (eg. during events), I've noticed it's one of two strategies.. either kill everything, or collect beacons, power down / hide, than dropship dive in the last possible second..

Regardless of objectives, the mode is straight up brawling.. and nothing PGI does is ever gonna change that.. cose' let's face it.. the whole game doesn't have a single mode in which it is better to go for objectives than just kill everyobody..

Edited by Vellron2005, 04 January 2018 - 03:10 AM.

[Daggett]

I like scouting because it's 'just' a brawl. Only real downer for me is that FP problem of mixing groups with pugs.
I think with only 8 players required, it should be possible to split the queues at least during events.

[Bud Crue]

Samial, on 03 January 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:

Seriously its not even scouting its quickplay TDM with 4 mechs.. The whole thing isn't even scouting, its medium mech brawling..

Yes. You say that like its a bad thing. This is robot stompy shooter game, and without this mode, most medium stompy robots would never get played.

Samial, on 03 January 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:

Honestly with the heat jacked up in this game as is its horrible and tbh unbalanced Clan mechs screw over IS every match with insane missile damage and well why the hell are medium mechs even scouting...

Must disagree here. If anything the complaint is not about heat its about lack of variety.
There are two modes of play and this event has made that clear: Kill em or farm em.

In "kill em" mode the Hunch IIC with 2 LBX 20s played in a group is a wonder to behold. So too a properly built Nova. For the IS Bushwacker works great but I've seen folks do amazing in even a traditional Shadowhawk AC20 3-4SRM4 build. Even Hunchies and Centurions but ya need to aim.

In the "farm em" mode anything with lots of Streaks are great. Last night we had guys putting up 700 damage plus regularly running both sides.

Samial, on 03 January 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:

Scouting should at least be all lights for at least immersion sense.. And can we at least get something to scout and not have brawling every match..

The dream of immersion died with phase 3 and the way PGI handled player requests to tone down the LT. Give it up. There will never be immersion.

Samial, on 03 January 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:

Its like these PG devs have zero imagination.. sorry but truth..

Yes, but this is the game we have. Nothing for it. Play to the mode they have provided or don't play or try to be "immersive" and play it some other way and just get real frustrated. Those are your choices. Alas.

[Bohxim]

Most matches I been in, the IS were winning. Also my scouting Lance rarely goes pure splat. We tries to do the funnies. Mixing up heavy gauss, dakka builds, laser pokers. Most of my mechs except the heavy gauss hbk runs xl too. It's all in the coordination imo.

[xRatas]

Scouting would be quite fun mode, but there are some stupid antennae around the map and some spineless light pilots just run around and try to escape. Remove those antennae and it's pretty good. Medium brawl is fun.

[Asym]

We had this discussion several times last night as a few clan players were complaining about BSW's and IS superiority.... I think I finally convinced a few players that Scouting is about how you use what you have and that tactics actually can change results.

The drop-in crew last night simply closed with the BWS's and lost 70% of the time in cold maps and 90% of the time on hot maps... I normally don't "lead" but I asked the 8 or so players we kept seeing to try a few things and it was amazing the results.... Like Sun Tsu said: "fight where you want to fight" so we, as a defacto unit, didn't close with the IS team and fought where we needed to fight based on the weapons........... They saw results that started to run in our favor and damage greatly increase in our favor. We anticipated AMS and ECM and had several matches where the IS guys "assumed" we'd play their game and got they clobbered.... One Clan player was furious that my HMM had an AMS until we ran into an IS team with LRM's......another where a Shadow Cat had ECM and that changed the dynamics.....

The morale: think, grow, evolve and then test your assumptions until you find a balance then, communicate that finding and the game grows.

Edited by Asym, 04 January 2018 - 03:48 AM.

[Vellron2005]

Asym, on 04 January 2018 - 03:45 AM, said:

We had this discussion several times last night as a few clan players were complaining about BSW's and IS superiority.... I think I finally convinced a few players that Scouting is about how you use what you have and that tactics actually can change results.

The drop-in crew last night simply closed with the BWS's and lost 70% of the time in cold maps and 90% of the time on hot maps... I normally don't "lead" but I asked the 8 or so players we kept seeing to try a few things and it was amazing the results.... Like Sun Tsu said: "fight where you want to fight" so we, as a defacto unit, didn't close with the IS team and fought where we needed to fight based on the weapons........... They saw results that started to run in our favor and damage greatly increase in our favor. We anticipated AMS and ECM and had several matches where the IS guys "assumed" we'd play their game and got they clobbered.... One Clan player was furious that my HMM had an AMS until we ran into an IS team with LRM's......another where a Shadow Cat had ECM and that changed the dynamics.....

The morale: think, grow, evolve and then test your assumptions until you find a balance then, communicate that finding and the game grows.

I get what you're saying, but tactics require unit-mates, and people who are willing to work with you. PUGs are mostly just interested in brawling and don't care for tactics or objectives..

Also, let's face it.. IS dropdeck tonnage advantage may have had merit before the Skill Tree and all the new mechs since then.. but right now, it makes no sense at all that IS can field an SRM boat such as the bushwhacker when it was because of SRM boating that the Stormcrow got kicked out of tonnage restrictions..

Don't even get me started on Invasion dropdeck tonnage..

[TWIAFU]

Samial, on 03 January 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:

Seriously its not even scouting its quickplay TDM with 4 mechs.. The whole thing isn't even scouting, its medium mech brawling..

Honestly with the heat jacked up in this game as is its horrible and tbh unbalanced Clan mechs screw over IS every match with insane missile damage and well why the hell are medium mechs even scouting...

Scouting should at least be all lights for at least immersion sense.. And can we at least get something to scout and not have brawling every match..

Its like these PG devs have zero imagination.. sorry but truth..

You could use YOUR imagination and maybe imagine new ways to beat Clans.

Two easiest ways are;

Drop with three friends.

Talk to the other three.

Best part is, you do not have to do one to be able to do the other.

Beating Clans in Scout driving a Medium is cake unless you are playing Scout as if it were QP with 4.

Try teamwork for a change.

Appogee, on 03 January 2018 - 10:09 PM, said:

I quite enjoy it... but like the rest of MWO, it's much more fun when playing with buddies.

Friends OP, plz nerf!

[Seranov]

You guys can have your boring "collect the thing nobody cares about"-fest mode as long as they add in a seperate dedicated small group mode for brawling. I adore Scouting because it's the only place where I can be guaranteed the enemy wants to brawl back, instead of hiding behind cover for two-thirds of every match.

Let's be honest, if the mode was specifically about collecting pylons and hiding from the enemy, it would be a ghost town. That's not engaging or intelligent gameplay, and I believe the people who think otherwise are in the extreme minority..

[Asym]

Vellron2005, on 04 January 2018 - 04:06 AM, said:

I get what you're saying, but tactics require unit-mates, and people who are willing to work with you. PUGs are mostly just interested in brawling and don't care for tactics or objectives..

Also, let's face it.. IS dropdeck tonnage advantage may have had merit before the Skill Tree and all the new mechs since then.. but right now, it makes no sense at all that IS can field an SRM boat such as the bushwhacker when it was because of SRM boating that the Stormcrow got kicked out of tonnage restrictions..

Don't even get me started on Invasion dropdeck tonnage..

For several nights now, pick-up Scouting teams (Clan) have been talking about the tonage disparity.... IS having a 20+ ton advantage is problematic at best.... What would happen if the Storm Crow was allowed?

Well, the SCR is faster than BSW's by 10 to 23 (or so) KPM to start. That in and of itself is a nightmare for IS teams.... Right now, the BSW can chase down a HMM or HBK.... Imagine if that weren't the case.... Holy crap, that'd change the entire battlefield dynamics of "close in and destroy" because the Clans, medium to medium, have no escape potential.... Hit boxes and damage potentials also come into play quite a bit because SCR's are extremely durable from my expereinces playing them in close in, high intensity brawls. Weapons? I'm not an expert but that seems to be a draw: BSW's and RAC's and MRM and SCR's with Streaks/SRM's and a lot of energy points....??? Maybe, one of the wiser forum players can do a BSW to SCR comparrison? Speed alone, will kill the IS advantage and change gameplay....

Chime in ! This is a good discussion......

[xRatas]

Seranov, on 04 January 2018 - 05:00 AM, said:

You guys can have your boring "collect the thing nobody cares about"-fest mode as long as they add in a seperate dedicated small group mode for brawling. I adore Scouting because it's the only place where I can be guaranteed the enemy wants to brawl back, instead of hiding behind cover for two-thirds of every match.

Let's be honest, if the mode was specifically about collecting pylons and hiding from the enemy, it would be a ghost town. That's not engaging or intelligent gameplay, and I believe the people who think otherwise are in the extreme minority..

One thing we really don't need is another separated mode though. IMO some serious thought should be put into merging as much into one pool as possible. Less than 2000 players simultaneusly online is spread pretty thin over current modes already.

[Seranov]

xRatas, on 04 January 2018 - 05:11 AM, said:

One thing we really don't need is another separated mode though. IMO some serious thought should be put into merging as much into one pool as possible. Less than 2000 players simultaneusly online is spread pretty thin over current modes already.

The best solution to that is most certainly not to change fun modes into ones that are simply not. "Scouting" is not actually about scouting. It's about small groups of smaller mechs duking it out.

MWO only has objectives because they give alternate win conditions to punish folks who refuse to engage at all, NOT to be the primary goal. The primary goal of this game is to fight big stompy robots with other big stompy robots, and if that's not why you're here, I have no idea what has kept you.

[TWIAFU]

LordNothing, on 03 January 2018 - 11:38 PM, said:

i played scouting for my last 20 or so matches, only needing 50 having completed all my 250 score bags. all but one of them had half the team throw the other half under the bus just so they could farm damage on crippled mechs at the end of the game. then they too would die because they didnt fight as a team. if invasion was a tater salad then scouting was mashed taters. because it seemed like a gathering place for all the pugs who weren't good enough to score in invasion. so the tactics have been quite dirty.

It's why you don't solo in Group Queues.

You take a Lance of OP Ubanmechs, utilizing the OPness of your voice to talk, coordinating the OPness of teamwork, to decimated every Scout group in front of you gleefully pointing out they lost to Urbanmechs.

What are you going to do - we converted our Dropship to run on salt.

Asym, on 04 January 2018 - 05:10 AM, said:

For several nights now, pick-up Scouting teams (Clan) have been talking about the tonage disparity.... IS having a 20+ ton advantage is problematic at best.... What would happen if the Storm Crow was allowed?


Chime in ! This is a good discussion......

Same thing as before. Those precious 'new players', 'casual', and 'just want to play for fun' players you all are so worried about would go right back to complaining about you boating Streaks, again, for Scouting. You would be right back to clubbing poor seals and that is something you are very much against, right?


Now, if you want to beat IS;

Talk to your team! Not rocket science, but damn, people cannot grasp this.

Group up!