69 replies to this topic

[Bombast]

Spare Parts Bin, on 11 February 2018 - 10:25 AM, said:

Never really read those books, but those tanks look like the super heavy tanks in Warhammer 40K.

The largest Bolos exceed 32,000 tons and can duel (And defeat) orbiting star ships.

For comparison, a Baneblade super-heavy tank is 316 tons.

Edited by Bombast, 11 February 2018 - 10:35 AM.

[Metus regem]

Spare Parts Bin, on 11 February 2018 - 10:25 AM, said:

Never really read those books, but those tanks look like the super heavy tanks in Warhammer 40K.

Heh a Bolo would make the Priesthood of Mars go to brown alert in a hurry.... as a Bolo is a self aware A.I., it's the one thing tech wise that is expressly forbidden by them...

[Jonathan8883]

The good thing about Bolos is that they are better people than we are. Perhaps hamstrung by programming, RoEs, and other interference - but consistently loyal, determined, self-sacrificing, honorable, and farsighted.

[evilauthor]

The most realistic alien scenario is ironically the one Battletech seems to follow: the Angel and Apes scenario.

Basically, given the age of the universe and galaxy, odds are that even two civilizations that become technological civilizations at relatively close together in time are going to have such a wide gap in capabilities that the more advanced civilization will look like angels in comparison to the more primitive one and the primitive one will be so far behind that they might as well be apes.

Which is kind of what we see in the Battletech universe. Humanity is a star faring species, and every other alien race they've encountered (or we think they've encountered) are stone aged primitives. If humanity runs into another space faring species, odds are good that they'd be so advanced that humanity would look like stone aged primitives in comparison. Which while that might make for a cool sci fi story, it doesn't make a good WAR story, and Battletech is all about war stories and the politics thereof.

And what you'd get in a conflict between BT humanity and a super advanced alien race wouldn't be a war story. Or even a political story. You'd get a story about pest control... and humanity is the pest!

That said, I always loved the idea that the Tetatae were modeled after "Chicken Walker" mechs. To the point that they took the Locust as their totem god at first sight. One can only imagine how they would have reacted to something like a Marauder or Timberwolf.

I suppose the next alien race gets modeled after Quads. Although things would be a difficult when lacking hands.

[Spare Parts Bin]

I like MWO and BT as man vs man. I played Warhammer 40K and CAV with aliens. Would rather not see that here.

[Bombast]

evilauthor, on 22 March 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

The most realistic alien scenario is ironically the one Battletech seems to follow: the Angel and Apes scenario.

As I recall, the Inner Sphere isn't even big enough to find aliens. There literally aren't enough planets populated in the entire inner sphere to overcome the math that dictates how likely populated planets are.

Admittedly the math is highly speculative, but it's something to consider. The IS is tiny.

Edited by Bombast, 27 March 2018 - 09:26 AM.

[Novakaine]

If you want aliens then Robotech should be your thing.
But the past year of QP has taught me one thing.
They do indeed walk among us.

[Jonathan8883]

William H Keith Jr wrote one of the Bolo books with a "Mechs vs Bolo" scenario. The aliens had LAMs, the humans had 2 Bolos.

You can imagine what the casualty ratios looked like.

[Metus regem]

Aliens all dead 1 Bolo damaged...

[Koniving]

Bombast, on 27 March 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:

As I recall, the Inner Sphere isn't even big enough to find aliens. There literally aren't enough planets populated in the entire inner sphere to overcome the math that dictates how likely populated planets are.

Admittedly the math is highly speculative, but it's something to consider. The IS is tiny.

Roughly....

A lot. That's just jump points (stars) with recharging stations. This isn't counting actual planets as some have several planets with human presence.
Once read an estimate of about 80,000 planets, which there's barely enough mechs in the IS to put 1 mech per planet. And so they don't.

Side note: I discovered a new function on Megamek. You can hit the little button on the bottom right, and enable "HPG Network" which shows what systems are connected directly to what systems, and how the HPG network works...
And more importantly, what systems cannot communicate with each other...

And it changes depending on the year, adding in systems that get new HPGs over time.
The above is a small area around Terra. Terra is the white dot a little off to the right.

Edited by Koniving, 30 March 2018 - 05:55 AM.

[evilauthor]

Bombast, on 27 March 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:

As I recall, the Inner Sphere isn't even big enough to find aliens. There literally aren't enough planets populated in the entire inner sphere to overcome the math that dictates how likely populated planets are.

Admittedly the math is highly speculative, but it's something to consider. The IS is tiny.

It is speculative, as is the density of life bearing worlds. But I think it's safe to say that in the Battletech universe at least, humanity has colonized every life bearing planet (and quite a few initially non-lifebearing ones) in the Inner Sphere minus the ones later abandoned due to the various wars.

And in all those 2000+ worlds colonized, not one sapient alien species has been found. At least, not one that's advanced enough to be recognized as sapient. There's at least one incident in the early novels that could be taken as an encounter with a native sapient species on an already colonized planet... but could just as easily be passed off as a hallucination.But if it was real, then that world has a stone aged sapient species that is actively hiding from the humans that colonized their world.

[Spare Parts Bin]

evilauthor, on 30 March 2018 - 06:46 AM, said:

It is speculative, as is the density of life bearing worlds. But I think it's safe to say that in the Battletech universe at least, humanity has colonized every life bearing planet (and quite a few initially non-lifebearing ones) in the Inner Sphere minus the ones later abandoned due to the various wars.

And in all those 2000+ worlds colonized, not one sapient alien species has been found. At least, not one that's advanced enough to be recognized as sapient. There's at least one incident in the early novels that could be taken as an encounter with a native sapient species on an already colonized planet... but could just as easily be passed off as a hallucination.But if it was real, then that world has a stone aged sapient species that is actively hiding from the humans that colonized their world.

Who needs aliens man kills man without any outside influence.

[Grus]

Bombast, on 06 January 2018 - 07:41 AM, said:

Theres one confirmed sentient race race of birds out side the inner sphere (Low tech level), and one quazy smart swamp ape thing. That's it. Years of Battletech lore masters have decreed no more aliens though, and I agree with them - this isn't Star Wars. Battletech is about us, not aliens.

Also what you're asking for is just 40K, but I'm sure you realized that.

Edited by Grus, 30 March 2018 - 03:39 PM.

[Spare Parts Bin]

Grus, on 30 March 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

Been there played that no thanks.

[Khobai]

battletech definitely needs aliens

literally the best they can come up with is civil war after civil war... the setting has gotten really repetitive and boring

they should do a new arc where the bird people have been uplifted by humanity. and build their own tree mechs and sentient bolos made out of sticks and mud. And then attack terra with in a giant egg shaped mothership.

it doesnt have to make sense because dark ages certainly didnt.

Quote

Who needs aliens man kills man without any outside influence.

yes but that happens enough in real life that its boring. we need aliens.

Edited by Khobai, 04 April 2018 - 05:09 PM.

[tankermottind]

Bombast, on 11 February 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

The largest Bolos exceed 32,000 tons and can duel (And defeat) orbiting star ships.

For comparison, a Baneblade super-heavy tank is 316 tons.

How would such a monstrosity move? The {Godwin's Law} had a design for a 1000-ton supertank called the Ratte that would have been almost completely immobile because the ground pressure would cause it to sink into the ground and destroy roads and bridges.

As for aliens in Battletech, I think they're both out of scope and thematically inappropriate. The Battletech lore is really heavy on politics and a cynical take on the nature of human societies and power. Even the Clans are just people, albeit people with an extremely warped society.

Edited by tankermottind, 04 April 2018 - 08:17 PM.

[Nightbird]

In sci-fi, humanity is only ever united when facing alien civilization competitors, otherwise it's forever wars between factions.

Here's hoping that some real aliens show up someday to wave hi, will send all the warmongers to their safe places.

[tankermottind]

Warmongers are kind of the point of Battletech. The conflicts that drive the storyline come from the greed, cruelty, ambition, and venality of human beings. That's the actual meaning behind all the giant robots with lightning guns and missile massacres. If you take out the fundamentally human nature of BTech, its factions, and its conflicts, you tear out the setting's very soul.

[evilauthor]

tankermottind, on 04 April 2018 - 08:20 PM, said:

Warmongers are kind of the point of Battletech. The conflicts that drive the storyline come from the greed, cruelty, ambition, and venality of human beings. That's the actual meaning behind all the giant robots with lightning guns and missile massacres. If you take out the fundamentally human nature of BTech, its factions, and its conflicts, you tear out the setting's very soul.

It's also been pointed out over the years that there really isn't anything aliens could do - character and drama wise at least - that some human faction couldn't also do, even if you have to invent the faction entirely from whole cloth. This makes truly alien aliens redundant when you can just have human factions with weird cultures (Clans, Word of Blake, Manei Domeini).

Not to mention that split, segregated tech bases has been a cancer on the setting for the longest time now. I mean, a hundred plus years and the Inner Sphere STILL hasn't integrated Clan Tech into its tech base? Really??? The last thing the devs or even a good many fans want is a THIRD tech base that can't play nice with the first two.

[Spare Parts Bin]

tankermottind, on 04 April 2018 - 08:20 PM, said:

Warmongers are kind of the point of Battletech. The conflicts that drive the storyline come from the greed, cruelty, ambition, and venality of human beings. That's the actual meaning behind all the giant robots with lightning guns and missile massacres. If you take out the fundamentally human nature of BTech, its factions, and its conflicts, you tear out the setting's very soul.

Cruelty, greed, hatred, ambition,covetness, etc these are the qualities that keep Mercs in business and allowed the Clans to flourish.