68 replies to this topic

[Wing 0]

I have an i7 6700k 4.0 GHZ and I run MWO on my SSD with my O.S. Only game running the SSD and I have not encountered anything so far. I do Run the game on VERY HIGH Settings to purposely because of the GTX1080 8GB and to see if the breaking in the FPS. The only encounters I have seen were the random stuttering which everyone would get which is obvious. My game still runs over 100 FPS so far in a 12 v 12

I was aware of it early thanks to a friend of mine who works for Nvidia. He told me they are a bit concerned about it.

Edited by Wing 0, 06 January 2018 - 09:19 PM.

[Accused]

Patches. With that said your single CPU performance shouldn't be too affected. I'm running an i7 8700k and Time Spy (DX12) show only a .4 lost of frames. I would be more worried about PGI's server when it gets updated. Fortnight is already experiencing server problems.

Otherwise I wouldn't worry about it, since there's nothing you can actually do about this other than wait for software updates to circumvent the hardware issues.

[Shadowomega1]

RelativeQuanta, on 06 January 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:

I'm interested in know if anyone else has seen a similar performance hit on the i7 6700. If no one else has, then I really hope that the issue is something I can fix. I really REALLY don't want this game to be unplayable in an unfixable way.

I haven't noticed a performance in SWTOR Galactic Starfighter, my other online game. But from what I've read, MWO is particularly CPU intensive so this could be expected.
https://www.reddit.c...668&sh=05178cf6

Unless you can completely alter the both the firmware inside the cpu as well as change the wiring inside then the answer to you fixing it is no. Intel engineers and techs said it can't be fixed with some firmware change, it pretty much will require the three main operating systems to go though with this code change.

For those saying apple is immune to virus is sadly mistaken, apple's rarely get virus as not many virus programmers build virus for the apple os.

[LordNothing]

Radio Wolf, on 06 January 2018 - 09:25 AM, said:

Gaddamn, that's a big screw-up on the part of Intel. I didn't even know about this.

every cpu has bugs. they are after all designed by humans who make mistakes. programmers have always learned about and taken advantage of bugs for legit purposes, and hackers doing same and having their own agenda.

i think it was overlooked because it wasn't an issue until new hacking techniques that didnt exist when the cpus were being designed reared their ugly head. really its a tug of war, one side designs a secure cpu, the other side breaks that security and so on. i am so glad i didnt build a new rig this year, hopefully the next gen cpus will fix these bugs (and likely introduce others).

[Laser Kiwi]

OK fellers, i have a new computer but budget, not a big machine like y'all. So i run a I5 7400 cpu and a 1060 video card

I thought i was going nuts, came back from holiday and the computer went to pot, during intense firefights my fps dropped to 10 once and i was running 60+ in november/december with only internet based lag issues.

So for me this problem has affected my i5 7400 and i'm glad i found out about it, i was going mental trying to figure out what i had installed or whether i had a virus because the performance went down.

On my other favourite games like skyrim SE and fallout4, no problems, presumably cause they are GPU intensive rather than CPU intensive.

The game is still fine but i noticed the performance drop, on high/ultra setting its runs about 30-60 fps instead of 50-90, i guess i'm lucky i'm used to much worse on much lower settings

[Laser Kiwi]

important to note that i was panicking about my performance before i knew about this chip flaw, i was even checking for dust for crying out loud, so this seems evidence enough that something somewhere is affecting something, my kid runs the EXACT same rig as me and has exactly the same performance drop when i tested it so it does affect low to middle range gamers IMO

[Pxranger]

Thorqemada, on 06 January 2018 - 10:03 AM, said:

Intel is vulnerable even if the System is powered down as long the PC is connected to Internet and it is connected to a power source even if the PC is not running bcs the Bug sits in a part of the PC that still can be accessed that way as it still has power.

AMD is not vulnerable to that sort of remote attack bcs the Bug only can happen if the Computer is up and running from inside the OS so an attacker would need direct access to it - that is why MS did not update AMD Computers so far.
CPUs up to Bulldozer are not affected at all!

That means no Performance Hit for AMD!

What? that's not how this works.

There are two separate flaws in CPU's. one which only affects Intel CPU's (Meltdown) and one that is non processor specific (Spectre)

Both basically allow access to areas of memory on a computer that would not ordinarily be possible but in different ways,
Meltdown currently has patches released that mitigate the risk, and the more easily exploitable flaw. Spectre is much more difficult to defend against, but is also much more difficult to exploit.

Basically, if your computer as a home user is already secure, you are fine, you would have to get some sort of malware on your computer in the first place for it to be a problem. and the computer has to be powered up...

If you run a server farm, this is seriously bad news. the Meltdown exploit allows a malicious program to copy the memory from any location on the server even if it is in use by another VM on the server.

Edited by Pxranger, 07 January 2018 - 09:32 AM.

[Thorqemada]

I speak about the Intel Management Engine who is active in any powered up or powered down mode and can execute certain code without the CPU being up and running or having any knowledge of it + has Access to the Network chip as well and thus makes you PC vulnearble if it is attached to any power source and Network/Internet.
It can used to compromise your sys using the new found security gates (and yet unknown security holes).

AMDs Management Engine is shut down if the Computer is shut down and can only be compromised if the attacker has physical access to the PC Hardware to manipulate it.

AMD is not affected by any significant performance hit due to design differences and not being affected by all of the security Bugs but it seems MS-Windows managed to make some Systems stop working when the security patch is applied (likely on Ryzen Systems as AMD CPUs up to Bulldozer so far is said are unaffected at all - i did not get any update so far running a Bulldozer FX8350 with my Avast Security Suite already compatible to the Security Fixes).

Sure, the more you know the more your knowledge my change as things develop...we have to wait what happens...

Edited by Thorqemada, 07 January 2018 - 11:52 AM.

[Rocket2Uranus]

Older generation of CPU will see a bigger impact than the modern CPUs.

If anything you guys should look into overclocking and buying a bigger CPU fan. Usually a good CPU overclock will get you at least 15%-25% performance boost.

[VonBruinwald]

Been doing a little delving to see how vulnerable systems are; FYI, anything pre-2011 is pretty safe.

INTEL:
Spectre - Yes
Meltdown¹ - Yes
Meltdown² - Yes
Meltdown³ - Yes

AMD
Spectre - No
Meltdown¹ - Yes
Meltdown² - Yes (Theoretically, has not been (publicly) demonstrated to date)
Meltdown³ - No

NVIDIA (because graphics cards have processors to)
Spectre - No
Meltdown¹ - Yes
Meltdown² - Yes (Theoretically)
Meltdown³ - No

ARM (because, 95% of phones)
Spectre - No
Meltdown¹ - Yes
Meltdown² - Yes (some only theoretically)
Meltdown³ - Yes, but only a small subset of processors

(Meltdown¹ - Bounds Check Bypass, Meltdown² - Branch Target Injection, Meltdown³ - Rogue Data Cache Load)

Meltdown¹ can be blocked with a software update
Meltdown² can be properly blocked by a firmware update, software is possible but will have a performance hit
Meltdown³ can be properly blocked by a hardware update, software may be possible but will have a performance hit

Edited by VonBruinwald, 07 January 2018 - 02:54 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Thorqemada, on 06 January 2018 - 10:03 AM, said:

Intel is vulnerable even if the System is powered down as long the PC is connected to Internet and it is connected to a power source even if the PC is not running bcs the Bug sits in a part of the PC that still can be accessed that way as it still has power.

AMD is not vulnerable to that sort of remote attack bcs the Bug only can happen if the Computer is up and running from inside the OS so an attacker would need direct access to it - that is why MS did not update AMD Computers so far.
CPUs up to Bulldozer are not affected at all!

That means no Performance Hit for AMD!

Ah well, Here it was reported as all cpu's of a certain age ( more modern) not surprised the BBC were wrong.

My Internet goes off when the PC's not running, so I'm not ..that..vulnerable..also what I keep on my PC is extremely limited, and I doubt it has much impact on most people, that like me don't bank by the internet, or use cloud systems to store my personal information.

What is course is still going to be vulnerable is the details that other companies store that I use.

Alas for my luddite ways for not fully trusting modern internet security

[Ghostrider0067]

Cathy, on 06 January 2018 - 09:50 AM, said:

It's not just Intel, it's AMD plus others as well, if it has a cpu it's likely to be vulnerable..

All those people that said I was paranoid about using cloud for personal details..

AMD's only vulnerable to Spectre and only through one vector as I've read it. Meltdown isn't a problem at all or so has been said. Then again, it's a mixed bag of reporting and there's likely more to tell between now and as more is discovered.

[BumbleBee]

I'm running and old i5-750 with a GTX570 and have not noticed any real hit to performance after the update. I will say that the mechs seem to have an occasional and very slight rubberbanding (so slight I almost didn't notice it at all), but that doesn't seem to be tied to my FPS, and is probably an ISP or server issue

Edited by BumbleBee, 07 January 2018 - 03:41 PM.

[Shadowomega1]

VonBruinwald, on 07 January 2018 - 02:45 PM, said:

Been doing a little delving to see how vulnerable systems are; FYI, anything pre-2011 is pretty safe.

INTEL:
Spectre - Yes
Meltdown¹ - Yes
Meltdown² - Yes
Meltdown³ - Yes

AMD
Spectre - No
Meltdown¹ - Yes
Meltdown² - Yes (Theoretically, has not been (publicly) demonstrated to date)
Meltdown³ - No

NVIDIA (because graphics cards have processors to)
Spectre - No
Meltdown¹ - Yes
Meltdown² - Yes (Theoretically)
Meltdown³ - No

ARM (because, 95% of phones)
Spectre - No
Meltdown¹ - Yes
Meltdown² - Yes (some only theoretically)
Meltdown³ - Yes, but only a small subset of processors

(Meltdown¹ - Bounds Check Bypass, Meltdown² - Branch Target Injection, Meltdown³ - Rogue Data Cache Load)

Meltdown¹ can be blocked with a software update
Meltdown² can be properly blocked by a firmware update, software is possible but will have a performance hit
Meltdown³ can be properly blocked by a hardware update, software may be possible but will have a performance hit

Good list, however there are two vectors reported for spectre.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

But is it not possible to not have that update? The vunerability seems extremely small for ordinary user and mainly involves running hostile software.

[LordNothing]

Thorqemada, on 06 January 2018 - 10:03 AM, said:

Intel is vulnerable even if the System is powered down as long the PC is connected to Internet and it is connected to a power source even if the PC is not running bcs the Bug sits in a part of the PC that still can be accessed that way as it still has power.

AMD is not vulnerable to that sort of remote attack bcs the Bug only can happen if the Computer is up and running from inside the OS so an attacker would need direct access to it - that is why MS did not update AMD Computers so far.
CPUs up to Bulldozer are not affected at all!

That means no Performance Hit for AMD!

yea but thats the management engine (and amd equivalent), this bug is something else.

needless to say im glad i passed up the chance to upgrade to a new rig last year. at least now i can get a cpu with the bug fixed or at least one where the performance hit of said bug is less.

*nvm you already addressed this*

Edited by LordNothing, 08 January 2018 - 07:07 AM.

[Catra Lanis]

Teer Kerensky, on 08 January 2018 - 06:45 AM, said:

But is it not possible to not have that update? The vunerability seems extremely small for ordinary user and mainly involves running hostile software.

Yes you can. I run W7 64-bit. I have my settings so it checks for updates but don't install them unless I say so. The probability for a home user to be affected seems miniscule at the moment. Since I have nothing important on this machine either I will hold off updating until the situation clears up a bit.

[Kotzi]

Cathy, on 07 January 2018 - 03:07 PM, said:

..., or use cloud systems to store my personal information...

I think some celebrities might want to have a word with you.

[Almond Brown]

Apparently the folks who found the issue are a Think Tank and have been trying to hack the "KERNEL" code for 7+ years. The best thing is to read up on it and then decide whether you will start up your Class Action suit of "Freak Out" as the odds of getting HACKED are almost "zero".

Get educated people. That way your "Falling Sky" will stay above you longer.

[Mystere]

Did the sky fall already?

I am asking 'cause I ain't seeing nuthin on my end.