131 replies to this topic

[NyxSilence]

So here we are again with faction play. It is high time this mode got a rework. One op says split people into lances or only drop as a lance. No. Fighting premades suck but that is not the culprit, that is just a reaction.

I suggested 400 tons for everyone. But this doesn't help as 400 tons of Annihilators isn't conducive either.

There are key problems across the board but the blaring problem is balance. With the CERLL nerf in play (NO I WILL NOT EXPLAIN THIS AS EVERYONE ELSE HAS) not to mention with CLMGs also followed suit as a pre-nerf to the Piranha (a light with 12 ballistics) it begs the question of if clan and is are balanced to each other. Short answer is no this is a huge issue.

These are all known things. How do you fix it?

You close faction play till the game is balanced.

This seems a bit irrational but lets look at it. In other competitive games you have the ability to ban characters, class etc., to help balance a game when something is just a tad over-powered. We dont have that. The tonnage disparity is rough not to mention out dated. IS has good armor Clan wears skinny jeans essentially. IS has true alphas where as Clan is pure dps (except cs/srms). Then you look at new civil war weapons where clan didn't much and IS is stacked. By all technicality Clan should not exist on the map at all and then IS got nerfed into the ground....at least the weaponry did. This is but a taste of the variables that plague FP and drive players nuts as they can't build properly to save their lives. 4 man teams of Bushwhackers **** Clan in scouting GOD FORBID you have a viper and you climb the hill in crimson straight and the dropship shows on the over hang and you fly into the extraction zone with 4 seconds left, Clan is hard pressed to win in scouting. Adversely in invasion MS runs a 12 man crab swarm and clans run pure assault to combat it with LRM 80s, ATM 48s, twin Gauss and uac 20s, and enough lasers to permanently melt the ozone layer AND STILL LOSE ON A COLD MAP, you can't ******* look me in the god damn eye and say it's balanced.

There is nothing balanced about anything the current state. Making players pay for this in FP where people are discussing openly during match in the calmest of states that they hate their lives and no part of playing as clan in FP is fun, you have a problem PGI. I invite you to play a match and just listen. It's pretty depressing what is talked about.

FP is not to blame for the crappy numbers. It is a representation of how things are not taken seriously and how reworks for all mechs need to be addressed.

[MechX101]

Well remember if you ask IS players they WILL tell you clans are still OP and need further nerfs and so on. If you ask a Clan player they WILL tell you IS is over quirked, buffed whiney babies.

I can be in QP with my clan and others and everyone is dropping IS.........
High end teams are playing clans now, why? It's harder to win they get the challenge they want......

It's fairly easy to see the scale has tipped the other direction and nobody is to blame except PGI. Do the IS love it, of course they do, I would as well but it is not the IS players fault anymore then it is the clan players fault. The problem is however that PGI thinks that somehow this generates income, and encourages me to get my friends over here. It does not, as a matter of fact people I refer to this game read the forums and go "No Thanks, looks cool sounds horrible."

I don't know what the answer is but I will say I have contemplated switching sides more than once. However I think that would just add to the problem so I tough it out and watch everyone get frustrated. The IS players who get Gen rushed OR own the field no fun either way. The clan players who think half the clan chassis are useless and either have to choose between a gen rush or trying to get enough points for an event.

PGI get with it, a new game won't save the business.

[TWIAFU]

MechX101, on 06 January 2018 - 12:14 PM, said:

Well remember if you ask IS players they WILL tell you clans are still OP and need further nerfs and so on. If you ask a Clan player they WILL tell you IS is over quirked, buffed whiney babies.

In the end, teamwork wins battles.

[Kin3ticX]

Clans are pretty strong.

CW isnt really a judge of tech balance because there is no match maker.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Critlynx, HBK-IIC-A on 2xERLL+6xERML, EBJ 2xLPL+6xERML, MCII-B 2xUAC10+2xUAC5 for any mid range map
HBK-IIC-A 2xERLL+6xERML, HBK-IIC-A 2xERPPC, 2xSMN 2xERPPC on for any long map

Go make these two decks and get good on them.

[NyxSilence]

TWIAFU, on 06 January 2018 - 12:31 PM, said:

In the end, teamwork wins battles.

This isn't a ******* fairy tale. This is 1s and 0s that aren't placed right in the setting of the game. Chess is balanced. FFS Monopoly is balanced. Nothing about this game is balanced. And then a super organized team comes in pre-planned per map per play mode and then sweeps a team just compounds the entire ordeal. Don't insult my intelligence. I am aware that MS, KCom, 420m, 228, these groups are strong. When it gets to pugvpug, numbers win. Right now they have been tipped in IS, maybe tomorrow in clan. But if the gear isn't balanced, one side regardless of mystical organization, it will fail.

[TWIAFU]

NyxSilence, on 06 January 2018 - 12:57 PM, said:

This isn't a ******* fairy tale. This is 1s and 0s that aren't placed right in the setting of the game. Chess is balanced. FFS Monopoly is balanced. Nothing about this game is balanced. And then a super organized team comes in pre-planned per map per play mode and then sweeps a team just compounds the entire ordeal. Don't insult my intelligence. I am aware that MS, KCom, 420m, 228, these groups are strong. When it gets to pugvpug, numbers win. Right now they have been tipped in IS, maybe tomorrow in clan. But if the gear isn't balanced, one side regardless of mystical organization, it will fail.

When you missed it....

Nobody has to insult your intelligence, you have done the job yourself.

Have a great weekend!

[K O Z A K]

wait what? so bottom line: IS OP close FP?

why don't you guys try to play for IS for a bit? It's a really eye opening experience, I would advise IS loyalists to do the same and drop clan for a bit

imo, FP is actually quite nicely balanced right now, both sides are good at some things and less good at others

[denAirwalkerrr]

I’m with MWO for a bit over a year but as far as I know it’s like first time since a lot of good units were Rassalhague mercs when IS actually is able to fight back against clans.

[Asa Caradine]

NyxSilence, on 06 January 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

So here we are again with faction play. It is high time this mode got a rework. One op says split people into lances or only drop as a lance. No. Fighting premades suck but that is not the culprit, that is just a reaction.

I suggested 400 tons for everyone. But this doesn't help as 400 tons of Annihilators isn't conducive either.

There are key problems across the board but the blaring problem is balance. With the CERLL nerf in play (NO I WILL NOT EXPLAIN THIS AS EVERYONE ELSE HAS) not to mention with CLMGs also followed suit as a pre-nerf to the Piranha (a light with 12 ballistics) it begs the question of if clan and is are balanced to each other. Short answer is no this is a huge issue.

These are all known things. How do you fix it?

You close faction play till the game is balanced.

This seems a bit irrational but lets look at it. In other competitive games you have the ability to ban characters, class etc., to help balance a game when something is just a tad over-powered. We dont have that. The tonnage disparity is rough not to mention out dated. IS has good armor Clan wears skinny jeans essentially. IS has true alphas where as Clan is pure dps (except cs/srms). Then you look at new civil war weapons where clan didn't much and IS is stacked. By all technicality Clan should not exist on the map at all and then IS got nerfed into the ground....at least the weaponry did. This is but a taste of the variables that plague FP and drive players nuts as they can't build properly to save their lives. 4 man teams of Bushwhackers **** Clan in scouting GOD FORBID you have a viper and you climb the hill in crimson straight and the dropship shows on the over hang and you fly into the extraction zone with 4 seconds left, Clan is hard pressed to win in scouting. Adversely in invasion MS runs a 12 man crab swarm and clans run pure assault to combat it with LRM 80s, ATM 48s, twin Gauss and uac 20s, and enough lasers to permanently melt the ozone layer AND STILL LOSE ON A COLD MAP, you can't ******* look me in the god damn eye and say it's balanced.

There is nothing balanced about anything the current state. Making players pay for this in FP where people are discussing openly during match in the calmest of states that they hate their lives and no part of playing as clan in FP is fun, you have a problem PGI. I invite you to play a match and just listen. It's pretty depressing what is talked about.

FP is not to blame for the crappy numbers. It is a representation of how things are not taken seriously and how reworks for all mechs need to be addressed.

I am looking you in the eye and telling you that things are pretty balanced. It's not the mechs that are bad, it's just you. Faction is a high risk, high rewards based system. It's a system that rewards people for learning to work as a team and use actual tactics. As a dedicated scrub player, I have played both IS and Clan and been ROFLstomped by the opposition.

Invariably the team that is able to work together to leverage the comparative advantages of their mechs wins and the other side starts whining about a) hacking or b ) the winning sides mechs being OP. EVERY SIGNAL TIME (unless I am rolling with my templars bois, we just get back up and train harder).

At the end of the day, when your really frigging hungry and all you want is some boiled crabs but they are still out of season for another six months, you need to complain less and practice more.

Edited by Asa Caradine, 06 January 2018 - 01:53 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Good units are in Clans because Clans are stronger. We go IS for short stints periodically because population imbalance means instant drops, plus just a change of pace.

Clans are still stronger though.

[General Solo]

Kin3ticX, on 06 January 2018 - 12:39 PM, said:

CW isnt really a judge of tech balance because there is no match maker.

Agreed and .....

Solos and Groups in one game is a recipe for unbalanced.
Can't balance anything on a sloping deck.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 06 January 2018 - 02:42 PM.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

NyxSilence, on 06 January 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

Adversely in invasion MS runs a 12 man crab swarm and clans run pure assault to combat it with LRM 80s, ATM 48s, twin Gauss and uac 20s, and enough lasers to permanently melt the ozone layer AND STILL LOSE ON A COLD MAP, you can't ******* look me in the god damn eye and say it's balanced.

I blame MS too. Every time they go I.S., clan tears flow.

b.t.w.

QUIT BRINGING LRM 80s and ATM 48s TO FACTION PLAY

[UnKnownPlayer]

Before going merc i was one of the top 10 loyalist players in FP, After about 3 months in Mercs doing IS im now top 200.
My Win / Loss ratio in FP is over 5:1 using only IS mechs. I dont claim but be a great player, just someone who has persevered and has a lot of experience in faction play from the IS side.

Despite my adherence to IS tech in FP, in QP I use clan mechs because they put up higher damage than any IS mechs i can drop. I have tried everything IS side to reproduce the effects but the clan tech with better heat shedding, higher alphas, more mobility etc. plays out on top.

The imbalance in FP is NOTHING to do with mech balance at the moment. It is purely about how people play, what meta they bring and if they work together as a group or not. I have seen clan sniper groups destroy IS pre-mades at range and I have seen IS rushes crush clan snipes in reverse. I have seen victric forge defended successfully by both sides as well as boreal vault attacked just as well by both factions.

If there is a meta you need to find a way to counter it. With so many mech chassis, weapons, tonnage range in the drop deck etc. there is always another way.

On conquest map my guys generally bring a 160 (yes actually min tonnage) drop deck and we have yet to lose because we countered the mobile heavy doctrine of most clan players.

Faction play is only about team play. I have lost count of the number of times I have suggested to opponents that searching the forums and finding a TS hub and organised group / unit would improve their playing experience and each time people choose to ignore it.

Even if there was an imbalance in the tech / mechs a good team with initiative and imagination can usually find a way to overcome it unless it is truly outrageous.

[50 50]

NyxSilence, on 06 January 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

One op says split people into lances or only drop as a lance. No. Fighting premades suck but that is not the culprit, that is just a reaction.

I'd suggest limiting groups to a lance purely as a mechanism to improve wait times if we combine it with allowing matches to start with teams of 4, 8 or 12.
Nothing to do with fighting premades.
Just a mechanism to provide some flexibility in the system to combat wait times.
If it is busy, we would still get the 12v12. but it allows a battle to occur with smaller numbers should the active population be lower.

It would also create variety in the battles as it plays out differently when you have different numbers of players. Look at scouting as a 4v4 and imagine what some of the other modes might be like if it was 4v4 or 8v8.

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

The Nerf Bat, on 06 January 2018 - 04:19 PM, said:

I blame MS too. Every time they go I.S., clan tears flow.

b.t.w.

QUIT BRINGING LRM 80s and ATM 48s TO FACTION PLAY

I made it bigger so every lurmer can see the importance of this message.

[TWIAFU]

MischiefSC, on 06 January 2018 - 02:13 PM, said:

Good units are in Clans because Clans are stronger. We go IS for short stints periodically because population imbalance means instant drops, plus just a change of pace.

Clans are still stronger though.

Thank you MsC for swapping sides, we will always be IS so you guys have someone to fight.

o7

The Nerf Bat, on 06 January 2018 - 04:19 PM, said:

QUIT BRINGING LRM 80s and ATM 48s TO FACTION PLAY

TRUTH!

[TWIAFU]

50 50, on 06 January 2018 - 05:34 PM, said:

I'd suggest limiting groups to a lance purely as a mechanism to improve wait times if we combine it with allowing matches to start with teams of 4, 8 or 12.

Nothing to do with fighting premades.

Ok, so limit all Units to a Lance.

I will by pass that, like how I/we play now by;

Using TS. As a TS hub, players from Units all over meet and play. So, we would all make Lances, up to 2-3 full 12 mans worth on any given night, and all drop. Now what are you going to do when we have all those different Lances in the same Group(s) and all on TS?



Now, and just like before, you are fighting a premade.

One thing you forget to address is how you will force solo's into Lances and make them work together as a Lance and then force them to work together as a Skirmish group. Unless you force them to teamwork they will be clubbed by a team that chooses to teamwork.

[Kin3ticX]

TWIAFU, on 06 January 2018 - 01:20 PM, said:

When you missed it....

Nobody has to insult your intelligence, you have done the job yourself.

Have a great weekend!

This is something that appears on the screen and is quickly discarded as fast as it arrived.

Proceed to directly to

Drop solo

Bring bad dropdecks

Do solo queue damage with 4 respawns

Post threads about Clams overnerfed or IS overbuffed

Rinse Repeat until fully baked and ready to serve again

Edited by Kin3ticX, 07 January 2018 - 05:27 AM.

[Fuerchtenichts]

In most of the FP matches tech is not the decisive factor in winning the match. Team play and personal skill rule. Only in very rare occasions, when two teams on same skill level meet each other, a tech advantage will decide. That is why comp play has ruled this out.

In FP you are fooling yourself in regards to your skill and the skill of your opponents when you believe you lose the majority of your matches due to tech imbalance. Just compare FP one month ago and now.

Edited by Fuerchtenichts, 07 January 2018 - 06:22 AM.