131 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

anonymous223, on 09 January 2018 - 12:20 AM, said:

Jgx dropping in fp as IS since 3weeks in max 6 people.
I didn't lose a match since 3 weeks, not even against full 12.

Ah don't be telling furphies now.

I recall one match 2 weeks ago you lost

[Bishop Six]

If i look just on yesterday's drops i saw a s*itload of ATMs and LRMs on Clan side. Even on Sulfurous defense they bring Lurms...Jesus...

Then yes, IS is op when you bring useless builds ALL THE TIME!

My highlights of yesterday:

Shadowcat with 1xERLL and 1xLRM15...WTF?!
Cheetah with 2xLRM5 and 2xERML
Ebon Jag with 2xLRM15
.
.
.

[The Basilisk]

The last 3 Pages of this thread just do one thing.
E-peen comparision without facts.
Just a couple of guys that make fools of each other by comparing arbitary made up storys that proove nothing.

Can we get constructive again?

As soon as it gets to FP and balancing FP there seems to be some kind of petrefication in points and behaviors.

There are always the same 5 or 6 PPL that do nothing but clapping each others backs and throwing the "git gud in a way how I want it or git lost" argument around in different shades of degrading others or with some kind of ironic underlining. (Since I am observing the same few culprits literaly for years now if they are so uberleet one has to ask why they wheren't in the MWOWCS instead of poisoning the forums with their provocative and unconstructive posts?)

Then there is the fraction of people that wants quick and easy solutions that ultimately result in nerf XYZ.
Well in an environment where your equipment is just one of many factors this is a bit to simplistic, isn't it?
So many Youtube videos proove that even hillarious strategies and weapon combinations may prevail if they are just operated well and handeled correctly acording to the situation.
Honstly...at this point I do not know if IS or Clan are generaly overpowered....(seriously play as IS when clan defends boreal or emerald and uses the correct weapons and strat....this isn't realy fun)

Well now how could we tell for sure if there is an objectively observable technology base caused advantage or disadvantage?
Since every player, every Unit and every technology base has its prefered style, strong and weakpoints in conjunction with different strategies to use or overcome them this will be a hard nut to crack.

What if you try it the other way around?
Make a thread where to compare and theory craft the different strats, builds and dropdecks suitable for the different FP game modes and compare the possible strong and weak points and if such a build and strategy would be feasible against a Clan/Inner sphere Unit.

[Fuerchtenichts]

Just another anecdote providing evidence that the level of knowledge of new FP players is decreasing more and more.

We attacked on Vitirc Forge with an 8 person premade. In first wave the 4 pugs parked outside the gates trying to lurm the enemy. On our question why they didn't join our push one answered that he plays a lrm boat and lrm boats do not push. So obviously the concept of armor sharing was unknown to him.

I really start questioning whether the current tier level system matchmaker in quickplay is helpful to "grow" players or whether the system rewards wrong behavior. As long as you are surrounded by lone wolf lrm boats you will adapt to this but terribly fail when you face only a lance of team players.

Edited by Fuerchtenichts, 09 January 2018 - 02:37 AM.

[ds7377]

delete

Edited by ds7377, 09 January 2018 - 03:15 AM.

[sub2000]

justcallme A S H, on 09 January 2018 - 01:22 AM, said:

Ah don't be telling furphies now.

I recall one match 2 weeks ago you lost

I was in it. You just roll over their team like through butter. It was skirmish on Grim if I recall. You had a lance with you (Javin from BCMC and another 2 players I see often with you). Few other FW players I've seen often and a lance of more of us (casuals).
Clan brawlers are OP (against IS Erll boats....)

He also was dropping at least two days in full premaid from JGx with 10 or 12 teammates.

Edited by sub2000, 09 January 2018 - 03:25 AM.

[vonJerg]

Fuerchtenichts, on 09 January 2018 - 02:33 AM, said:

Just another anecdote providing evidence that the level of knowledge of new FP players is decreasing more and more.

We attacked on Vitirc Forge with an 8 person premade. In first wave the 4 pugs parked outside the gates trying to lurm the enemy. On our question why they didn't join our push one answered that he plays a lrm boat and lrm boats do not push. So obviously the concept of armor sharing was unknown to him.

I really start questioning whether the current tier level system matchmaker in quickplay is helpful to "grow" players or whether the system rewards wrong behavior. As long as you are surrounded by lone wolf lrm boats you will adapt to this but terribly fail when you face only a lance of team players.

You just might be on to something here.... frogs in the well?
Are you suggesting to release the valves on MM so lower tier players can see in first hand how more experienced players play?

[justcallme A S H]

sub2000, on 09 January 2018 - 03:24 AM, said:

I was in it. You just roll over their team like through butter. It was skirmish on Grim if I recall. You had a lance with you (Javin from BCMC and another 2 players I see often with you). Few other FW players I've seen often and a lance of more of us (casuals).
Clan brawlers are OP (against IS Erll boats....)

He also was dropping at least two days in full premaid from JGx with 10 or 12 teammates.

Nah it was Hellbore, over Xmas eve.

I'm just winding him up my ole friend lol

Fuerchtenichts, on 09 January 2018 - 02:33 AM, said:

Spoiler

Just another anecdote providing evidence that the level of knowledge of new FP players is decreasing more and more.

We attacked on Vitirc Forge with an 8 person premade. In first wave the 4 pugs parked outside the gates trying to lurm the enemy. On our question why they didn't join our push one answered that he plays a lrm boat and lrm boats do not push. So obviously the concept of armor sharing was unknown to him.

I really start questioning whether the current tier level system matchmaker in quickplay is helpful to "grow" players or whether the system rewards wrong behavior. As long as you are surrounded by lone wolf lrm boats you will adapt to this but terribly fail when you face only a lance of team players.

Yep I was in a PUG drop today. I tried to tell them all where to stand, what to do, what will happen etc as we were playing a semi-organised group (not sure what size). You know, teach the PUGs something, do a good deed.

After a few mins the LRM boat comes out with something along the lines of... "You type a lot, no one is going to listen to you".

I tried to explain that I knew what I was talking about, only to be met with more hostility and abuse from 2 more players. And yet I'm the one getting warnings constantly

Quite simply without me the LRM boats would have lost

Edited by justcallme A S H, 09 January 2018 - 04:51 AM.

[Fuerchtenichts]

vonJerg, on 09 January 2018 - 03:35 AM, said:

You just might be on to something here.... frogs in the well?
Are you suggesting to release the valves on MM so lower tier players can see in first hand how more experienced players play?

I guess there are two major topics

1. Tune the reward system

FP/QP
The reward system has to be tuned. Raw and unspecific damage on mechs should be less promoted than team orientated activities. (e.g. moving together with your lance, reconnaissance, using narc & target laser, fulfilling objectives like capping etc.) The system already exists and just would have to be tuned. Perhaps the ms calculating rules between QP and FP should be drastically different.

Events
The last christmas stuffer event simply promoted wrong behavior. Many "new" players simply chose LRM mechs because they thought it was the only way to reach the 250 match score in FP for them (see topic above).
In scouting you could end up at least with a win and no one reaching the 250 ms of the winning team when they "failed" to spread damage all over their opponents and clinical took them out by focusing their targets. (so exactly the opposite a comp player would do)

Re-drops
Another effect was that people weren't willing to sacrifice a mech for the team because they knew, they would be personally punished by the system because the FP match score strongly promotes to use the minimum of mechs possible. So instead of ejecting a 35% armored mech without any weapons left, some players expected the rest of the team to carry them to victory.


2. Spreading game knowledge

At least a very sensitive topic.

How do we create an atmosphere among the players of positive criticism or at least for new players that are willing to improve their game?

- As ash pointed out above a lot of guys feel lectured and react negative when some one takes over drop lead responsibility. On the other hand other players expect the drop lead taken over by a premade.
- A lot of players won't be reading this forum to get up to date infos on gameplay, loadouts & tactics
- Some players feel not being able to join a unit TS or even an open faction TS to form premades because they would have to make compromises and co-operate with others.

Sadly all of this is key to win matches and especially FP matches.

In game communication
Improve the current in game communication (provide VOIP rooms for setting up groups in LFG) to get in contact with each other or premades before forming a premade and dropping into a match. At least PGI could offer a possibility for a premade to post their TS-IP in the LFG so single players would be enabled to get into contact via VOIP before chosing to join a premade and the drop starts.

Edited by Fuerchtenichts, 09 January 2018 - 06:48 AM.

[El Bandito]

NyxSilence, on 06 January 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

So here we are again with faction play. It is high time this mode got a rework. One op says split people into lances or only drop as a lance. No. Fighting premades suck but that is not the culprit, that is just a reaction.

I suggested 400 tons for everyone. But this doesn't help as 400 tons of Annihilators isn't conducive either.

There are key problems across the board but the blaring problem is balance. With the CERLL nerf in play (NO I WILL NOT EXPLAIN THIS AS EVERYONE ELSE HAS) not to mention with CLMGs also followed suit as a pre-nerf to the Piranha (a light with 12 ballistics) it begs the question of if clan and is are balanced to each other. Short answer is no this is a huge issue.

These are all known things. How do you fix it?

You close faction play till the game is balanced.

This seems a bit irrational but lets look at it. In other competitive games you have the ability to ban characters, class etc., to help balance a game when something is just a tad over-powered. We dont have that. The tonnage disparity is rough not to mention out dated. IS has good armor Clan wears skinny jeans essentially. IS has true alphas where as Clan is pure dps (except cs/srms). Then you look at new civil war weapons where clan didn't much and IS is stacked. By all technicality Clan should not exist on the map at all and then IS got nerfed into the ground....at least the weaponry did. This is but a taste of the variables that plague FP and drive players nuts as they can't build properly to save their lives. 4 man teams of Bushwhackers **** Clan in scouting GOD FORBID you have a viper and you climb the hill in crimson straight and the dropship shows on the over hang and you fly into the extraction zone with 4 seconds left, Clan is hard pressed to win in scouting. Adversely in invasion MS runs a 12 man crab swarm and clans run pure assault to combat it with LRM 80s, ATM 48s, twin Gauss and uac 20s, and enough lasers to permanently melt the ozone layer AND STILL LOSE ON A COLD MAP, you can't ******* look me in the god damn eye and say it's balanced.

There is nothing balanced about anything the current state. Making players pay for this in FP where people are discussing openly during match in the calmest of states that they hate their lives and no part of playing as clan in FP is fun, you have a problem PGI. I invite you to play a match and just listen. It's pretty depressing what is talked about.

FP is not to blame for the crappy numbers. It is a representation of how things are not taken seriously and how reworks for all mechs need to be addressed.

Despite ALL that, Clans still took more planets than IS. What's your excuse again? As for losing to 12-man (MS) Crab rush with your LRM/ATM Assault decks, all of our Crabs have AMS.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 January 2018 - 11:09 PM.

[Johnathan Tanner]

El Bandito, on 09 January 2018 - 11:08 PM, said:

Despite ALL that, Clans still took more planets than IS. What's your excuse again? As for losing to 12-man (MS) Crab rush with your LRM/ATM Assault decks, all of our Crabs have AMS.

Ive noticed the MS's crab game has been weak since crabmas,

[El Bandito]

Johnathan Tanner, on 09 January 2018 - 11:12 PM, said:

Ive noticed the MS's crab game has been weak since crabmas,

I follow the caller's commands. That's all I am gonna say about that. Besides, combat ID possession makes huge difference.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 January 2018 - 11:22 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

El Bandito, on 09 January 2018 - 11:08 PM, said:

Despite ALL that, Clans still took more planets than IS. What's your excuse again? As for losing to 12-man (MS) Crab rush with your LRM/ATM Assault decks, all of our Crabs have AMS.

Didn't help on Hellbore against a 6man with LRMs today though? Made for some good twitch viewing while on my lunch break @ work. .

The best part though was you running back OUT the gate on your first mech to hide after 11 of your teammates had died.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 10 January 2018 - 12:54 AM.

[El Bandito]

justcallme A S H, on 10 January 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

Didn't help on Hellbore against a 6man with LRMs today though? Made for some good twitch viewing while on my lunch break @ work. .

The best part though was you running back OUT the gate on your first mech to hide after 11 of your teammates had died.

1. We didn't run Crab rush on Hellebore, at least not with me in it. You need to check the stream.

2. The guy who went out wasn't me. I was one of the first to die in wave 1. You need to check your eyes.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 January 2018 - 01:00 AM.

[Johnathan Tanner]

justcallme A S H, on 10 January 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

Didn't help on Hellbore against a 6man with LRMs today though? Made for some good twitch viewing while on my lunch break @ work. .

The best part though was you running back OUT the gate on your first mech to hide after 11 of your teammates had died.

Was it an ac2 dragon?

[justcallme A S H]

ooo my apologies Bandito - It was your teammate Coolant!

Johnathan Tanner, on 10 January 2018 - 12:59 AM, said:

Was it an ac2 dragon?

ERL GHP. Just rewatched that section. I was wrong. Freely say so when I am.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 10 January 2018 - 01:22 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Fuerchtenichts, on 09 January 2018 - 06:45 AM, said:

- As ash pointed out above a lot of guys feel lectured and react negative when some one takes over drop lead responsibility. On the other hand other players expect the drop lead taken over by a premade.
- A lot of players won't be reading this forum to get up to date infos on gameplay, loadouts & tactics
- Some players feel not being able to join a unit TS or even an open faction TS to form premades because they would have to make compromises and co-operate with others.

Also - just thinking more about it - I used to solo drop a lot and drop call. Like I mean daily.

These days the players that are left and are not in a group are either one of the following:

1. LRM Boats who just hide at the back
2. Players that have comms yet refuse to follow the call
3. Players that get snarky/rude when someone actually DOES try to drop call

So I've stopped dropping solo as much and when I'm in a group I will rarely drop-call over in-game comms because of the above. Granted there are some exceptions and solo's out there that will happily work with a group as it increases their chance of winning. However this is extremely rare these days yet circa 12 months ago it was the total opposite - literally.

The skill floor of MWO (given the 10k odd players it's dropped in 12 months) is extremely low and those left are either in groups or they are the super-bad PUGs/Solos that simply don't read/care/understand what FP is about. Those players, honestly, should be kept in QP. But alas population what it is, that is impossible.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 10 January 2018 - 01:22 AM.

[TWIAFU]

El Bandito, on 09 January 2018 - 11:08 PM, said:

Despite ALL that, Clans still took more planets than IS. What's your excuse again? As for losing to 12-man (MS) Crab rush with your LRM/ATM Assault decks, all of our Crabs have AMS.

"But, but, but when I play QP, they are the best! I can sit behind everyone, wait for locks, and fire! I get such high damage. You are cheating or at the very least OP for not acting like those in QP. AMS OP, please nerf! IS OP, please nerf! Teamwork OP, please nerf! Group OP, please nerf!"

If not for Units/Mercs on Clan side start to wonder how they made it so far into Known Space El?

[pheeere]

justcallme A S H, on 10 January 2018 - 01:22 AM, said:

Also - just thinking more about it - I used to solo drop a lot and drop call. Like I mean daily.

These days the players that are left and are not in a group are either one of the following:

1. LRM Boats who just hide at the back
2. Players that have comms yet refuse to follow the call
3. Players that get snarky/rude when someone actually DOES try to drop call

That's what I see too often as well. Especially number 3. Recently I read a lot if stuff like "don't tell other people what to do", "don't tell others how to pilot their mechs", "this is not a serious match, so shut up and f*** off". I always imagine these people to be some 19 year old angry teenager who are sick of having to listen to their mommy. I have no other explanation for that.

Too many people are absolutely incapable of following the orders of a more experienced player, or generally accepting authority. Why play a 12v12 teamplay based shooter that requires highly organized team strategy for a good experience, then? I don't get it. No experience in real life team situations maybe, be it at work or in a sports team. And no, your LRM 15 Bushwacker with 3 MGs is not a good build, believe me. But taking criticism and suggestions seems to be difficult, as well.

[Alexandra Hekmatyar]

justcallme A S H, on 10 January 2018 - 01:22 AM, said:

Also - just thinking more about it - I used to solo drop a lot and drop call. Like I mean daily.

These days the players that are left and are not in a group are either one of the following:

1. LRM Boats who just hide at the back
2. Players that have comms yet refuse to follow the call
3. Players that get snarky/rude when someone actually DOES try to drop call

This is also the reason why I never call pug drops.
Now I only require at least more then half of the people that are in my group cause they do mostly listen (after repeating it a dozen of times).
And sometimes you need to scream at the Lurm boats to push too and if that fails I got a pair of Gauss to remind them to fall in line.