57 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 09 January 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:

To be fair, almost anything can be get good results once in a while in T1 because of the XP-bar phenomenon. The real test is how consistently they can do it, since most of the people making these claims only take a handful of cherry-picked screenshots...

That's what I meant.

[kuma8877]

I think the cougar is decent at tier 1. It's not a death machine, but I generally feel if played right, it can carry it's weight on a team and help secure wins. In other words, I don't feel I've ever let my teams down dropping in one.

[JediPanther]

oneda, on 09 January 2018 - 05:23 PM, said:

Bad players (cannonfodder) have been whining about basically any and all weapon system in mwo.

Light mechs (wolfhound) that take double gauss hits as if its nothing. Multiple double gauss hits. Np. They shrug it off.

Light mechs.

Its gotten kinda pathetic.

Completly dumbed down game where even the worst players can just stand int he middle on open field and survie 12 mechs hammering them for many seconds.

I have not seen any mech in this game in the past five years and nine days of the sixth year of playing survive 8 or 12 mechs shooting it for 'many seconds.'

Exactly how many seconds are you counting and do you have a video of that?

As for wolfhounds I am primarily a light pilot and run a lot of is lights. Your statements of the wolfhound would make Barnum and Baily proud. In order for your wolfhound to survive just one single dual guass volley you have several problems let alone surviving a second dual guass volley:

1. A wolfhound moving can be hard to hit even with guass; Few light pilots ever move in a straight or predictable pattern making them harder to hit. They have great torso twisting ability which only gets better from skill tree's mobility tree.

2. Extra light or standard engine will mean that side torso blowing will not kill it. Some lights on the is side do not use the xl. Only is lights with xl die instantly to side torso loss.

3. A Wolfhound fully front armored only has up to 48 front armor max allowing for 4 points only rear. No smart light pilot would run less than 10 rear torso armor. Even if you add on the skill tree's max armor of 20.7% armor hardening it would be just enough to survive one dual guass hit. 48 (front loaded and with skill tree nodes applied)-30 dual guass hit=18 ct armor front remain.

3A. In order to survive that first dual guass you'd have to meet the conditions of:
1. xle or std engine.
2. Front loaded armor 40 max ct with only 4 points rear torso (assuming no survival armor nodes).
3. Full 32 points into the survival tree which raises the 40 ct to 48 total ct front loaded with 4 rear. (40 x 20.7% skill tree=8.28)
4. Excellent aim of the enemy mech with that guass.

Here is what the survival tree does: https://kitlaan.gitl...mor%20Structure

The two types of wolfhound capable of surviving a single dual gauss round for 15 + 15 = 30 points damage total; none of which could survive multiple dual guass hits:

1. WLF-2 Survival V1

2. WLF-2 Survival v2

Switching between armor types and std or xle makes a nominal weight difference but using the xle over the std does give you a significant speed increase which can be added to from the mobility tree for speed tweek.

As best if you were using the survival V2 you could survive one and only one dual guass impact on the ct. 40 armor plus skill tree's 8 would give you 48 total leaving 4 rear. 48 minus the dual guas hit of 30 leaves you with 18 armor left. Taking one more dual guass hit of 30 would leave you with negative 12 armor which in the end means you died.

[Xiphias]

JediPanther, on 09 January 2018 - 06:36 PM, said:

No smart light pilot would run less than 10 rear torso armor.

What? Running 10 armor is way too much. If you are consistently getting shot in the back as a light you are making piloting mistakes. I think I normally run 4 on most lights.

[Yosharian]

El Bandito, on 09 January 2018 - 06:11 PM, said:

Correction: At T4, personal skill matters more than teamwork. As for OP's claim that Cougar is good, at T4 any mech can be good cause that tier is populated by raw potatoes. Get up to T1, and then claim Cougar is good again.

Cougar is good

[JediPanther]

Xiphias, on 09 January 2018 - 08:03 PM, said:

What? Running 10 armor is way too much. If you are consistently getting shot in the back as a light you are making piloting mistakes. I think I normally run 4 on most lights.

4 would mean very little on my light. I very often play the scout and anti-enemy light role in qp and fw. Frequently I'm fighting other light mechs or having to disengage 3 or more enemy mechs shooting at me so my back armor is around 15-21 depending on the light.

Four armor might be fine if you pilot as one of the sniper builds with er or ppcs but for the cqc and short range I tend to run with sml,spls, or srm 2s or 4s you would need a lot more back armor.

I also play without a mic but have voip on in case of the rare drop caller. Maybe in group and fw play when you have an actual team with builds that compliment each other then you might get away with so little back armor.

[Mcgral18]

JediPanther, on 09 January 2018 - 09:35 PM, said:

4 would mean very little on my light. I very often play the scout and anti-enemy light role in qp and fw. Frequently I'm fighting other light mechs or having to disengage 3 or more enemy mechs shooting at me so my back armor is around 15-21 depending on the light.

Four armor might be fine if you pilot as one of the sniper builds with er or ppcs but for the cqc and short range I tend to run with sml,spls, or srm 2s or 4s you would need a lot more back armor.

I also play without a mic but have voip on in case of the rare drop caller. Maybe in group and fw play when you have an actual team with builds that compliment each other then you might get away with so little back armor.

...you know you're supposed to look at the enemy to shoot them, right?
That's where you'll take the most damage, that's where all your armor should be

[PocketYoda]

Mechs are not op.. Broken game mechanics that never get fixed are op..

[JediPanther]

Mcgral18, on 09 January 2018 - 10:37 PM, said:

...you know you're supposed to look at the enemy to shoot them, right?
That's where you'll take the most damage, that's where all your armor should be

You should have weapons right? Left mouse button to shoot the enemy. That's how to do damage. your light is not one of these:

[sycocys]

Individual skill is fine for moving the xp bar up the fastest, though that is even debatable - its just ability to do raw damage there, but I suppose you can put point and click on individual skill.

Teamwork is what moves it up and provides wins consistently. It is also the only thing that can be consistently defined as OP.

Lack of it is also why the majority of players in T4/5 that are stuck in T4/5 can't progress, and run into issues where the slightest bit of it on the other side makes every other mech/tech choice appear OP in comparison to whatever they run.

Edited by sycocys, 10 January 2018 - 03:16 AM.

[LowSubmarino]

I like harder, more ruthless, manly games.

Even back in the days with no charge gauss and ppc combos i never thought its too strong. I actually used lasers back then. I liked how quickly you could die. Made it very exciting. Now i dont fear snipers or anything coming my way. You survive a lot these days. Way too much for my taste.

Id make the game brutal. Hard.

Thats where the real fun starts.

I like harder, more ruthless, manly games.

Even back in the days with no charge gauss and ppc combos i never thought its too strong. I actually used lasers back then. I liked how quickly you could die. Made it very exciting. Now i dont fear snipers or anything coming my way. You survive a lot these days. Way too much for my taste.

Id make the game brutal. Hard.

Thats where the real fun starts.

[adamts01]

Relishcakes, on 09 January 2018 - 03:49 PM, said:

For example, i pilot a cougar "C" with 4HML, 2 HLL, and ECM.

I just tried this.....74 laser alpha on a light.... LOL. Can confirm that it melts scrubs in tier 1 matches. I just came back to the game and have been having fun in a 5MPL cougar. This abomination might have to replace it.

[Xiphias]

JediPanther, on 09 January 2018 - 09:35 PM, said:

4 would mean very little on my light. I very often play the scout and anti-enemy light role in qp and fw. Frequently I'm fighting other light mechs or having to disengage 3 or more enemy mechs shooting at me so my back armor is around 15-21 depending on the light.

Four armor might be fine if you pilot as one of the sniper builds with er or ppcs but for the cqc and short range I tend to run with sml,spls, or srm 2s or 4s you would need a lot more back armor.

I also play without a mic but have voip on in case of the rare drop caller. Maybe in group and fw play when you have an actual team with builds that compliment each other then you might get away with so little back armor.

Running 15-21 back armor is insane on a light, and if you are having to run that much you are making one or more serious piloting mistakes. I don't mean to be rude, but you really shouldn't be giving people advice on how to run lights.

I run pretty much every light in the game (literally mastered them all before skill tree) from snipers to brawlers. Most of my builds are 4 back armor, a few might still be 5-6, but that's probably too much. I also scout and like to play an anti light role when I can. Even with small pulse and SRMs you absolutely do not need that much back armor if you're piloting properly.

My guess is that you are choosing poor routes that are leaving you in the open and aren't doing a good job of evasion to need that much back armor.

If you are getting engaged 3v1 on a consistent basis it means that you are over committing and/or staying in a fight too long. Good light piloting is attacking when you have the advantage, not getting outnumbered and shot in the back as you run away. Pay attention to where the enemy team is and start disengaging before you get outnumbered.

Pay attention to the location of the enemy mechs and you'll get shot in the back a lot less. Another thing that will help is to not run straight lines, but to run erratic paths, and use your torso twist so that you get shot in the arm/side instead of the back. Between moving your torso and changing your path you can spread most of the damage to your front instead of your back armor.

Use cover, maneuvering, and smart engagements not back armor to stay alive.

Quote

As best if you were using the survival V2 you could survive one and only one dual guass impact on the ct. 40 armor plus skill tree's 8 would give you 48 total leaving 4 rear. 48 minus the dual guas hit of 30 leaves you with 18 armor left. Taking one more dual guass hit of 30 would leave you with negative 12 armor which in the end means you died.

To address this too, the structure of a mech is 50% of its armor and the Wolfhound has armor quirks. With the skill tree my Wolfhound has 62/4 armor and 29 structure for a total of 91 health for the front CT.

That means I can take 3 full rounds of twin Gauss and still have 1 HP left. Side torsos have 68 total health from the front (2 full rounds). If I completely maxed survival I'd gain 1 extra point of structure.

Properly spread (legs/ST/CT/arms) a Wolfhound can easily take 8 twin Gauss rounds without taking any serious structure damage. More realistically is probably 5 rounds, with it taking 6-7 to kill. The Wolfhound is definitely an outlier though and there's a reason it was used in the WCs. You should almost always take XL engines on lights, maybe a light engine on rare occasion, but never ever a standard engine except maybe the Urby.

The problem with the Wolfhound is that PGI made is huge (basically a medium) and so they had to make is super tanky so that it can survive since it's so easy to hit.

You information is just wrong, please don't spread bad information and advice.

[Relishcakes]

adamts01, on 10 January 2018 - 07:23 AM, said:

I just tried this.....74 laser alpha on a light.... LOL. Can confirm that it melts scrubs in tier 1 matches. I just came back to the game and have been having fun in a 5MPL cougar. This abomination might have to replace it.

Its pretty brutal right? Its horrifyingly bad at heat management though. All my extra pod space is heatsinks lol!

[adamts01]

Relishcakes, on 10 January 2018 - 11:16 AM, said:

Its pretty brutal right? Its horrifyingly bad at heat management though. All my extra pod space is heatsinks lol!

My first run with it I 1-shot a panther and then about 15 seconds later when it cooled down I 1-shot a Centurion. I felt dirty. I ended up switching back to 5xMPLs. I play pretty aggressive and need that dps.

[Mole]

El Bandito, on 09 January 2018 - 06:11 PM, said:

Correction: At T4, personal skill matters more than teamwork. As for OP's claim that Cougar is good, at T4 any mech can be good cause that tier is populated by raw potatoes. Get up to T1, and then claim Cougar is good again.

*ahem*

I am in tier 1 and have been for a while. I love my Cougar to pieces with dual HLLs and a pair of ATM3s. Obviously it's too slow to lone-wolf like other light 'mechs but it's a great for fire support when stuck in with the rest of your team and is agile enough to quickly duck if it gets noticed.

JediPanther, on 10 January 2018 - 02:03 AM, said:

You should have weapons right? Left mouse button to shoot the enemy. That's how to do damage. your light is not one of these:

If you're getting shot in the back enough to justify 20 freakin' rear armor on anything, ESPECIALLY a light, you are mechwarrioring wrong. Even when disengaging with my lights I always make sure that I am twisting so that my damage is getting spread around my arms and front side torsos. If you are running straight away from the enemy in a straight enough line to feel like you need to put 20 points of armor on your light's back then you need to rethink your tactics.

Edited by Mole, 10 January 2018 - 11:36 AM.

[El Bandito]

Mole, on 10 January 2018 - 11:31 AM, said:

*ahem*

I am in tier 1 and have been for a while. I love my Cougar to pieces with dual HLLs and a pair of ATM3s. Obviously it's too slow to lone-wolf like other light 'mechs but it's a great for fire support when stuck in with the rest of your team and is agile enough to quickly duck if it gets noticed.

If I want to pilot an 81 kph mech, I'd hop into a Clan Heavy. Besides, Cougar STs are super easy to disable.

adamts01, on 10 January 2018 - 07:23 AM, said:

I just tried this.....74 laser alpha on a light.... LOL. Can confirm that it melts scrubs in tier 1 matches. I just came back to the game and have been having fun in a 5MPL cougar. This abomination might have to replace it.

I'd just run the 78 alpha Hellbringer instead. Same speed, same ECM, better cooling and hardpoints. And doesn't die to sneeze.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 January 2018 - 11:40 AM.

[Xiphias]

kuma8877, on 09 January 2018 - 06:28 PM, said:

I think the cougar is decent at tier 1. It's not a death machine, but I generally feel if played right, it can carry it's weight on a team and help secure wins. In other words, I don't feel I've ever let my teams down dropping in one.

The problem is that it's literally as slow as a heavy with the armor of a light. It doesn't do anything that you couldn't do better in a heavier mech. The Hunchback IIC can run pretty much all the good builds on the Cougar and it has a lot more health to work with.

Sure, you can make the mech work, but that doesn't make it good. It's one of the easiest mechs in the game to kill if you shoot at it.

[Stinger554]

El Bandito, on 10 January 2018 - 11:38 AM, said:

If I want to pilot an 81 kph mech, I'd hop into a Clan Heavy. Besides, Cougar STs are super easy to disable.




I'd just run the 78 alpha Hellbringer instead. Same speed, same ECM, better cooling and hardpoints. And doesn't die to sneeze.

He's using ATM3s(just two of them at that) that should be all you need to know about his understanding of what's good and what's not. lol

[LordNothing]

clan lasers are still op. you want evidence, look at my clan deck. knowing that something is op is the first step in exploiting it. nerf after nerf and they are still solid.

Edited by LordNothing, 10 January 2018 - 11:51 AM.