100 replies to this topic

[visionGT4]

Last mech pack i bought was MC2+Hero and NCT standard. This was at the time of Civil War dropped and i had atleast some hope (foolish i know) for balance.

Months later (and post the travesty that was MWOC mech selection) PGI has failed to give any indication that they aim to increase the number of viable chassis available on both sides.

Who else is voting with their wallet?


edit: spelling

Edited by visionGT4, 08 January 2018 - 11:42 AM.

[N0ni]

Well it's not like they couldn't care less about balance, it's that they're trying and not succeeding. Especially when it comes to nerfing things that the underwhelming chassis/chassis variants needed to be slightly more on par.

But honestly how do you balance something that was created to be overpowered compared to other tech? Same goes for mechs, how do you balance something that was designed with terrible geometry compared to [blank]?

[MechaBattler]

I agree with Noni. They're trying, they're just not succeeding. We have the IS with more agility now thanks to engine desync. But it's not enough. Apparently raw firepower and range is more important.

I think they should keep addressing core mechanics. Most central of all is XL disparity. And obvious things like IS MGs weighing more for no appreciable gain.

Personally they should cut Clan laser damage 1 point across the board, with buffs to other stats.

[CuriousCabbitBlue]

my wallets closed but that's cause I'm fraking poor I want the fafnir so bad

Edited by CuriousCabbitBlue, 08 January 2018 - 12:01 PM.

[Battlemaster56]

My wallet is only open to things I'm interested in or truly want. But other than that nothing else really influence my spending other than life.

[NRP]

Not mine. In fact I think I've spent a couple hundred bucks over the past couple of months.

[KevinZhang]

I agree with you. Ever since the new Civil War tech came out, IS has slowly power creeped to new levels!! Their faster engines and higher agility along with their old quirks they kept are making it harder and harder to have a “fair fight”. I feel like these days I can alpha and barely get their armor to yellow while they hit me with a single AC 20 and strip me down to internals!! Their RACs put down so much suppressive fire that my team usually can’t even advance positions without getting chewed up in the process. The Annihalator goes ton for ton with the Kodiak and comes out on top with more firepower and armor!! They keep nerfing clan lasers to oblivion. I know they are trying to balance it but they definitely have been favoring IS too hard lately.

[Gas Guzzler]

Clans still have a slight advantage especially in the assault bracket. Its not that bad though.

[Mystere]

Balance?

The game is a mere emaciated skeleton of what it could have been.

Heck, this extreme obsession for balance since day 1 is probably a major reason for this same emaciation.

[sycocys]

N0ni, on 08 January 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

But honestly how do you balance something that was created to be overpowered compared to other tech?

Well that's not that hard - you break from the lore because its didn't work for TT and they knew long before they implemented it that it wasn't going to work for an MMO PVP game.

The best way to keep some lore feel and create some balance would be from locking the pod loadouts on omnis and just flat out hardpoint reduction on many of the newer mechs.

[K O Z A K]

The only way to balance things at this point is to have all tech available for all mechs. That is the only way to achieve true balance. And even then it won't really be balance the meta will just shift and new combinations of mechs/weapons will rise above others. If you guys really think you can achieve balance with hundreds of different mechs and weapon types with 2 distinct factions that are also supposed to somehow feel and play differently while piloted by players with skill disparity greater than the grand canyon I dont think you have realistic expectations

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I just rarely get mechs that come out that I'd like to purchase and I don't buy anything until the quirks are revealed. Last mech I got was the Marauder IIC, before that the Kodiak. Prior to that I'd buy certain clan wave or resistance packs. I'll likely pick up the Piranha.

As for things I want, I just want more of my unit mates back online so we can team up and play more again.

[Sjorpha]

Hazeclaw, on 08 January 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

The only way to balance things at this point is to have all tech available for all mechs. That is the only way to achieve true balance. And even then it won't really be balance the meta will just shift and new combinations of mechs/weapons will rise above others. If you guys really think you can achieve balance with hundreds of different mechs and weapon types with 2 distinct factions that are also supposed to somehow feel and play differently while piloted by players with skill disparity greater than the grand canyon I dont think you have realistic expectations

There are many complex faction based game with good balance, Dominions 4, Starcraft, Warhammer total war and so on. There are also many character/class based shooters with good balance. The idea that you can't balance different tech bases/factions is therefore evidently false.

There is nothing magical about the factions in battletech that makes it different or impossible to balance except the sheer unwillingness to do so.

In many ways it's actually much easier to balance assymmetrical tech, because symmetrical tech must be exactly similar to be balanced which is almost impossible, whereas assymmetrical tech can be balanced by exaggerating the differences, as for example range vs duration advantage on lasers and so on.

The IS large pulse was pretty well balanced vs the clan large pulse before they nerfed it for example.

I think PGI is simply afraid of making IS tech as good as Clan tech, they fear the backlash from loudmouthed loreheads/clanbois in the fanbase and perhaps have some of their own personal resistances to it.

Edited by Sjorpha, 08 January 2018 - 01:11 PM.

[Plastic Guru]

I'm not buying as much this year as last year only because I've not been playing very long and needed a stable of chassis. Now I only get what interests me. I learned my lesson by buying some mechs that just weren't as much fun to play as I thought they'd be.....(Roughneck).
I haven't been playing that long but am happy with what has come out since I started.
Of all my FTP or PTP games this is the one I've stayed at the longest and enjoyed the most (Ok...there was some kick butt drunken nights playing WOW years back).

Edited by Plastic Guru, 08 January 2018 - 01:18 PM.

[Asym]

Nothing. Not one real penny.... I will not spend a real cent until PGI returns the Night Gyr's nerf's (May and beyond).....that wasn't a just or ethical move PGI and you have lost my trust. How can I trust you to not nerf the next mech class into obsecurity... Balance? Oh please........

No MW5 either.

[Bud Crue]

My wallet is closed, but not because of their inability to provide tech balance but because of their repeated examples of either incompetence or blatant dishonesty that have gone along with their so-called "balance" efforts over the last 7 months.

From Paul's total lie that community requests were part of what lead to the nerfing of the ISML to Chris's absurd assertions regarding their data and how they claim it shows whatever they happen to need it to show in order to justify some broad brush change (but refusing to prove it); my wallet is sick and tired of the totally incoherent approach PGI has to balance or even mere stability of their game mechanics. And being tired, it will nap until PGI decides to get thier collective crap together.

They've done a lot of irritating things over the years and I still was willing to look past the actual changes and continued to financially support the game, but the last several months of both irritating changes and intellectual dishonesty have finally proven to much for me. Sorry no contests this year. No crazy spending for myself either. I'm done until PGI can prove that they are done breaking things and that there is some reason to believe that ANYTHING will have some stability for more than a month at a time.

[DaZur]

Balance is a fallacy... You can't "Balance" technology that is by design intended to be superior to the latter.

The word you're looking for is "equity". Through burn-time, fire rate and cool-down one can make all weapons "equal" and still maintain their unique nuances.

I.e.... 5 =/= 3+2

Sadly this reality is lost on way too many people to even be worth the discussion.

[Mole]

I'm sure PGI could do a decent job of balance if they weren't tied down to lore and this was just any old original robot game. But it's not. A 'mech was designed with bad geometry? They're stuck with it. A weapon is supposed to behave or work a certain way according to TT and lore? They can tweak it a bit but ultimately they're stuck with it. Unfortunately they are stuck trying to balance somebody else's mess without balancing the crap out of it so hard that it is no longer recognizable as Battletech.

Edited by Mole, 08 January 2018 - 01:26 PM.

[Helsbane]

Honestly, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they make the tech bases comparable, they lose the neckbeards because LORE!!!, and if they stick to the lore, they lose a good chunk of the players who just want a decent robot shooting game. I wish they had said in the beginning that they were making a MechWarrior game that wasn't based on the TT rules of ages past so that we could have a system that lends itself to balance, but, here we are, shackled to LORE!!! and circling the drain...

[K O Z A K]

Sjorpha, on 08 January 2018 - 01:04 PM, said:

There are many complex faction based game with good balance, Dominions 4, Starcraft, Warhammer total war and so on. There are also many character/class based shooters with good balance. The idea that you can't balance different tech bases/factions is therefore evidently false.

There is nothing magical about the factions in battletech that makes it different or impossible to balance except the sheer unwillingness to do so.

In many ways it's actually much easier to balance assymmetrical tech, because symmetrical tech must be exactly similar to be balanced which is almost impossible, whereas assymmetrical tech can be balanced by exaggerating the differences, as for example range vs duration advantage on lasers and so on.

The IS large pulse was pretty well balanced vs the clan large pulse before they nerfed it for example.

I think PGI is simply afraid of making IS tech as good as Clan tech, they fear the backlash from loudmouthed loreheads/clanbois in the fanbase and perhaps have some of their own personal resistances to it.

How can you balance different weapon systems when their effectiveness varies depending on how skilled the player using them is? How can you improve asymmetrical balance when players continue to refuse using particular faction/mech/weapon where its most effective? You can ask 15 people in this thread what needs to be done to improve balance and you'll get 15 different answers, most of them contradicting the others. I think the biggest thing that can be done for balance is if we could pick the mech we're using after the map/game mode like in FP. Then you'd see way less of the safest option (mid range trade mechs) being used which are currently dominated by clan heavies/mediums