28 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

It's never been available, in game.

Getting better in MWO is and always has been on the player. I mean like most games, but then not all games are as technical as MWO can be to a newcomer.

Either way forcing people into some training queue, that will be dead, means it's pointless.

Wanna learn? As Death said - UNIT and/or drop with a group. It's simple, effective and you learn fast (if you are capable of it)

[Deathlike]

Stealthrider, on 13 January 2018 - 08:08 PM, said:

I think you're misunderstanding the issue I'm trying to solve. The issue isn't that the resources aren't available, it's that they aren't available in game. The vast majority of players in any game never visit official (or unofficial) forums or join public VOIP servers. Even in a game with a smaller population, like MWO, you're looking at maybe ten percent of players overall. The simple explanation isn't pride or stubbornness, it's simply a matter of putting in extra effort out of game. Most people won't bother, even if they do want to improve and even if they do want to coordinate, they might not want to bother with Teamspeak or Discord or whichever additional programs to install (and learn, and mess around with).

It's a lot like the price threshold for attracting customers: a person may be willing to pay $20 for a product, but asking for $25 means that person will never buy. The key is that with a lower price for entry, that same person is likely to be perfectly OK with spending considerably more than $25 total on that product over time.

Another way to think of it is that currently the expectation is if a player wants to get into FP it's his responsibility to come to the veterans, whereas if veterans reached out to players they'd be more likely to listen and get invested. What this proposal would do is provide an easy avenue for that to happen that is convenient for both newbies and those veterans that would want to reach out.

I had suggested a while ago that PGI would work on improving their built in TS to connect to Unit/Faction approved TS servers for this. Little things like this would go a long way than the pitiful implementation that is the LFG queue. Technically the LFG queue can be improved to notify players "hey, big group forming up"... but that kind of thinking is Lostech.

Any sort of minimally viable implementation (which is what I just described) is apparently "too much work" or some such.

[Stealthrider]

Deathlike, on 13 January 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

I had suggested a while ago that PGI would work on improving their built in TS to connect to Unit/Faction approved TS servers for this. Little things like this would go a long way than the pitiful implementation that is the LFG queue. Technically the LFG queue can be improved to notify players "hey, big group forming up"... but that kind of thinking is Lostech.

Any sort of minimally viable implementation (which is what I just described) is apparently "too much work" or some such.

From what I know (which admittedly isn't much), having in-game VOIP connect to outside servers would be a much bigger undertaking than it sounds. Leaving aside the technical issues (I highly doubt MWO's VOIP is related to TeamSpeak at all), there's surely liability and legality issues with connecting to unofficial servers through PGI's game, not the least of which being a need to rewrite the EULA to support it--assuming it could be written properly at all.

A better LFG system would of course help, but that is also a significant project that would likely involve overhauling the chat system (which could indeed use an overhaul) and the UI (also could use it). And then, of course, the community would need to embrace it for it to have any effect, but with how much unofficial infrastructure already exists it's doubtful that people would be willing to switch.

That is why something like this that actively changes the new player experience is, in my opinion, the best way to attract and keep players. It has the strongest effect without fundamentally changing the game.

[Ignatius Audene]

An rework of the chat system, better lfg options and ingame recruiting would be nice. But...PGI

[sub2000]

Stealthrider, on 13 January 2018 - 08:28 PM, said:

From what I know (which admittedly isn't much), having in-game VOIP connect to outside servers would be a much bigger undertaking than it sounds. Leaving aside the technical issues (I highly doubt MWO's VOIP is related to TeamSpeak at all), there's surely liability and legality issues with connecting to unofficial servers through PGI's game, not the least of which being a need to rewrite the EULA to support it--assuming it could be written properly at all.

PGI is using Teamspeak3.
Presence of ts3client_win64.dll is as explicit as any indication could be.

Quote

A better LFG system would of course help, but that is also a significant project that would likely involve overhauling the chat system (which could indeed use an overhaul) and the UI (also could use it). And then, of course, the community would need to embrace it for it to have any effect, but with how much unofficial infrastructure already exists it's doubtful that people would be willing to switch.

That is why something like this that actively changes the new player experience is, in my opinion, the best way to attract and keep players. It has the strongest effect without fundamentally changing the game.

Yes LFG with VoIP, sufficient delay for "Call to Arms" group to form any resemblance of team would improve FW experience tremendously.
Some existence of LFG in FW lobby (requiring to form a full team before dropping) would be even better.

[Stealthrider]

sub2000, on 14 January 2018 - 04:52 AM, said:

PGI is using Teamspeak3.
Presence of ts3client_win64.dll is as explicit as any indication could be.

Fair enough, but the issue of connecting to unofficial servers remains.

Quote

Yes LFG with VoIP, sufficient delay for "Call to Arms" group to form any resemblance of team would improve FW experience tremendously.
Some existence of LFG in FW lobby (requiring to form a full team before dropping) would be even better.

If the community was to embrace it it could probably work. Maybe that's the route to try to take, then? A LFG overhaul that integrated VOIP and that players are directed to as part of the FP experience, perhaps in the same way that they are directed to take contracts/join as a loyalist?

I'm going to give this some more thought and try to come up with some ideas on how something like this might be able to gel with the existing UI and overall FP setup. It's certainly a more elegant solution than my proposal, if less of a cut-and-dry measure. Thanks for the inspiration.

Also, on a related note, I did tweet at Russ the other day about this thread. His response was, "Will be news on FP in the coming week(s)" So that's something.

[Leone]

Rustyhammer, on 13 January 2018 - 04:25 AM, said:

MWO is not a rocket science. You need just ONE basic skills to success in the any MWO game mode: ability to deal more damage than receive. If you kills mechs more often than dies you an asset for you group.

Incorrect.

I've a friend who can't aim well. Unless he's bringing Lrm mechs, he has a hard time getting keeping crosshairs on a mech, but the targeting box is close enough he can missiles locked. He got more unit invites than I ever did whilst he was running missile mechs and I was brawling it up putting up higher numbers.

Thing is, he was always upfront sharing armour, and has the positioning, awesareness and survival skills to be one of the first mechs engaging and one of the last down. The fact he couldn't put out the damage and use lrms was less important than the fact he was always there, helping the team.

I've had games where someone just sat in the back farming damage, using the rest of us as 'pug shields' and let me tell you, I'd rather take a newb straight outta quickplay who tries to keep up than one of those.

~Leone

Edited by Leone, 14 January 2018 - 10:23 AM.

[50 50]

Stealthrider, on 14 January 2018 - 09:21 AM, said:

If the community was to embrace it it could probably work. Maybe that's the route to try to take, then? A LFG overhaul that integrated VOIP and that players are directed to as part of the FP experience, perhaps in the same way that they are directed to take contracts/join as a loyalist?

I believe that looking at the LFG and the Call to Arms is going to be the quickest option to implement.

If Faction Play was the group mode and only group mode there would be no ifs or buts about it.
This means that the solo players that would like to play FP but may not be affiliated with a unit or may not have anyone they can group up with on their own initiative could be linked straight into the LFG channel.
My experience is that groups do look at the LFG channel to fill out their numbers so it does work.
We could further improve that by giving groups the ability to issue a call to arms as a way to 'advertise' for players to join their group and automatically link in. Just another method to LFG and the Invite to Group function really.

EDIT: Oh, and just as a side thought, I could see some functionality added in these features to allow players to 'hire' mercenaries for their group. Would be an interesting little addition.

Edited by 50 50, 15 January 2018 - 05:35 PM.

[Rustyhammer]

Leone, on 14 January 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

Incorrect.

I've a friend who can't aim well. Unless he's bringing Lrm mechs, he has a hard time getting keeping crosshairs on a mech, but the targeting box is close enough he can missiles locked. He got more unit invites than I ever did whilst he was running missile mechs and I was brawling it up putting up higher numbers.

Thing is, he was always upfront sharing armour, and has the positioning, awesareness and survival skills to be one of the first mechs engaging and one of the last down. The fact he couldn't put out the damage and use lrms was less important than the fact he was always there, helping the team.

I've had games where someone just sat in the back farming damage, using the rest of us as 'pug shields' and let me tell you, I'd rather take a newb straight outta quickplay who tries to keep up than one of those.

~Leone

That's great!
But where exactly I am incorrect? I never claimed that shooting mechs is the ONLY way to success. All I said that learning just this skill is more than enough to success. You can compensate lack of it via learning other skills but dealing damage is the simplest way to win in any shooter.

The fastest way to win in almost every MWO game mode (except conquest in FP) is to kill red team's mechs and you can help your team to do it by contributing directly or indirectly.
If you contribute directly by shooting mechs you are driving your and your team victory.
If you contribute indirectly, you are relying on others to win. It's usually working when you are a part of a group, but in solo drops you cannot predict competency of your teammates. If they cannot do damage for themselves AND you, your team will lose and no amount of torso twisting or good positioning is going to change this.
Make a team of 12 players with aiming problems and they always lose to a team with 12 people who can do damage themselves.

Moreover, the case of your friend is more like an exclusion than a common practice. Usually players who cannot aim also cannot position or avoid enemy fire.

My whole point - players who shoot mechs successfully can learn FP basics easily without a new FP queue. Players who cannot shoot do not need a special FP queue - they can learn that in QP.