44 replies to this topic

[Ruediger Steiner]

No. Cause we don´t have enough players. So matchmaking will probably never work, unless you want to wait 30 minutes for a QP match.
I just wanted to show you what´s wrong with MWO these days. And it will get worse.

[Curccu]

So both sides have some bad damage dealers and good damage dealers? wrong picture?

[Asym]

I doubt it. Any system required a certain number of players to even "just work"...... I suspect, we are no where close to the population we need to ensure at least reasonable team balance.

Yesterday, was a horrendus mess of QP teams that clearly, were the only players in the game and there was 0 balance going on. Someone on VOIP said " I wonder where this massacre will take place this time, on this map"??? We had like 4 12-0 massacres in a row and then 2, 0-12 massacres sometimes with both teams having the same 6 to 8 players from the previous games. I left after 6 matches.....

[Ruediger Steiner]

Curccu, on 12 January 2018 - 06:55 AM, said:

So both sides have some bad damage dealers and good damage dealers? wrong picture?

It´s not the matchmaking of the teams that bothers me, it´s the matchmaking of all players. People with damage of 400, 500, 600 and even 1.000 are put together with people under 100 and 200 damage. I mean, 81 damage in a MCII? 29 damage in a CN9? 32 damage in an AWS?
Asym is right, the stomping matches are increasing fast in the last weeks, even in FP. And you see the same people every match.
Had a King Crab at Assault today, ignoring the enemys going straight for the enemy base to hide behind a hill.
And the loadouts of the mechs are getting worse too. LRMs and ATMs everywhere. Why? Cause of the "fire and forget i hope i get some damage at the end cause i can´t shoot **** with lasers".
Yesterday someone was complaining, right after the game started, that he has problems getting 150 damage since he reached TIER3 the day before. And another teammember responded that he is happy with his TIER5. And i´m sitting in my mech thinking, how the **** did you get in a team with them, when you got a game after just 10 seconds waiting time?
If PGI wants to keep MWO running, they should think of something to get some serious players into the game soon or MWO will die at the end of 2018.

Edited by Wishmast3r, 12 January 2018 - 08:19 AM.

[Water Bear]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't have trouble with game quality. Most of my matches are pretty even - while there are some low damage players in your screen cap, they are pretty equally distributed on both sides of match.

One could explain this by saying that you either get 6 potatoes, equally distributed to both sides, or wait another 15 minutes to play. I'd be OK with what you got.

[Brody319]

Most of my matches are fine. Besides the occasional stomp which is mostly because one team plays aggressive and gets a good position quicker.

[Daggett]

Wishmast3r, on 12 January 2018 - 08:13 AM, said:

It´s not the matchmaking of the teams that bothers me, it´s the matchmaking of all players. People with damage of 400, 500, 600 and even 1.000 are put together with people under 100 and 200 damage. I mean, 81 damage in a MCII? 29 damage in a CN9? 32 damage in an AWS?

How damage is distributed has not much to do with MM. An assault is no guarantee to perform well even if you are a good player. I have seen many top comp players do less than 100 dmg simply because QP matches are quite chaotic and you can always stumble into situations you don't expect.

I can't repeat it enough: Never ever judge another player based on his performance in a singe match.
You can be pretty sure that most of the bad performers in your example would have done better in some of their next matches.
Bad matches happen, who is absolutely sure he never had a sub 100 dmg match?

Additionally every dog has it's day so you will sometimes see bad/mediocre players being just in the right spot at the right time to deal their rare 1000+ dmg match.

So outliers in damage distribution are no sign of a failed MM. Assaults solo-capping remote points on conquest in a T1/2 match however are.

Asym, on 12 January 2018 - 07:40 AM, said:

We had like 4 12-0 massacres in a row and then 2, 0-12 massacres

12-0 stomps have not much to do with MM either, it's a natural thing that happens in games that reward focusing fire and where there is a high difference in character-speeds.

All it takes to stomp is the side with a small lead to push aggressively to exploit their numerical advantage by being able to apply more fire concentration on their targets while those are panicking and forced to play reactively but can't escape due to low speed when backing up or presenting back-armor when moving forward.

Edited by Daggett, 12 January 2018 - 09:42 AM.

[Metus regem]

An 81 damage MCII could be a case of getting visit from a proctologist light early in the match.... The Centurion could've come around a corner and been cored out in a single alpha by a couple of mechs, hell I know that's happened to me before in my Centurions....

Bad matches happen, just as good matches happen. Judging someone based off of one match is rather short seighted... I have matches where I don't brake 400 damage, but I've got two or three KMDD's, does that make me bad because I don't farm damage?

[Curccu]

Wishmast3r, on 12 January 2018 - 08:13 AM, said:

It´s not the matchmaking of the teams that bothers me, it´s the matchmaking of all players. People with damage of 400, 500, 600 and even 1.000 are put together with people under 100 and 200 damage. I mean, 81 damage in a MCII? 29 damage in a CN9? 32 damage in an AWS?
Asym is right, the stomping matches are increasing fast in the last weeks, even in FP. And you see the same people every match.
Had a King Crab at Assault today, ignoring the enemys going straight for the enemy base to hide behind a hill.
And the loadouts of the mechs are getting worse too. LRMs and ATMs everywhere. Why? Cause of the "fire and forget i hope i get some damage at the end cause i can´t shoot **** with lasers".
Yesterday someone was complaining, right after the game started, that he has problems getting 150 damage since he reached TIER3 the day before. And another teammember responded that he is happy with his TIER5. And i´m sitting in my mech thinking, how the **** did you get in a team with them, when you got a game after just 10 seconds waiting time?
If PGI wants to keep MWO running, they should think of something to get some serious players into the game soon or MWO will die at the end of 2018.

Well have to admit that my avg damage is way over 200 a game but sometimes **** happens by very bad decision or small maneuver fail, Yesterday misjudged my jump a bit in rubellite and fell down... with HPPC Sparky and enemy ACH was standing down there next to me, game over for me, **** happens.

Also your queue time of 10 seconds might be a game which other have waited for 5 minutes, you might have been just the final player needed to launch.

[Verilligo]

Wishmast3r, on 12 January 2018 - 08:13 AM, said:

It´s not the matchmaking of the teams that bothers me, it´s the matchmaking of all players. People with damage of 400, 500, 600 and even 1.000 are put together with people under 100 and 200 damage. I mean, 81 damage in a MCII? 29 damage in a CN9? 32 damage in an AWS?
Asym is right, the stomping matches are increasing fast in the last weeks, even in FP. And you see the same people every match.
Had a King Crab at Assault today, ignoring the enemys going straight for the enemy base to hide behind a hill.
And the loadouts of the mechs are getting worse too. LRMs and ATMs everywhere. Why? Cause of the "fire and forget i hope i get some damage at the end cause i can´t shoot **** with lasers".
Yesterday someone was complaining, right after the game started, that he has problems getting 150 damage since he reached TIER3 the day before. And another teammember responded that he is happy with his TIER5. And i´m sitting in my mech thinking, how the **** did you get in a team with them, when you got a game after just 10 seconds waiting time?
If PGI wants to keep MWO running, they should think of something to get some serious players into the game soon or MWO will die at the end of 2018.

How about 12 damage in an Executioner? Sometimes even the best, most talented pilots have a truly phenomenally bad day. It's just magnified when they happen to be in bigger mechs. Also not sure what your problem with ATMs is, they're perfectly valid weapons that can really wreck mechs if you can get your positioning right in that 120-270m sweet spot.

[Tarogato]

Send me a copy of the screenshot with the names visible and I'll be able to tell you if the matchmaking was completely fubar or not. It's possible that the teams were even, but ... you know... the game happened. Because it's a game, and even the best players sometimes do double-digit damage.

[Novakaine]

Your typical 12 man quick play consists of these elements.
One Ace.
Two or three excellent experienced players.
Two or three average to below average players.
Several sub par players.
And the rest ......well you've seen them.
No amount of matchmaker can fix that.
Not since I've been around.

[Ruediger Steiner]

People please. This screenshot is just an example, cause it shows my experience of the last weeks pretty good. Of course you can have a bad match, everbody does. I´m not talking about this one single match, i´m talking about TIER Levels getting mixed, that shouldn´t be mixed (didn´t we have a change in matchmaking a few month ago and PGI said say will watch the results?), i´m talking about noobs using ATMs at 1.200m hitting nothing and not sharing their armor, noobs using LRMs at 50m instead of their lasers cause they can´t aim, noobs retreating with 6 mechs cause 3 enemys are pushing leaving 1 teammate behind who gets killed, i´m talking about the lack of fundamental teamplay and knowledge of MWO weapons from people who have played this game for years and i´m talking about people who start yelling or shooting at me when i try to improve their gameplay with tips, i´m talking about people trying to tell me how to play FP who leave the game with 400 damage while i´m doing my 2.000. *sigh*
I like playing with people who have a bad game. I like playing with people who don´t use meta mechs. I like playing with people who have a bad day. I like playing with noobs.
I just don´t like to play with idiots. That´s all i wanted to say.

[Escef]

The matchmaker can only make matches with the criteria it is given. While I think the criteria has some flaws to it, there is one point I think a lot of people are purposefully blind to.

The Match Maker will not play your mech for you.

The Match Maker does not compute the ratio of brawlers to ranged builds.

The Match Maker does not choose maps that favor one team over the other.

The Match Maker cannot force you to communicate.

The Match Maker cannot force you to play like a team.

So, blaming the match maker for your losses is really just shifting blame for match performance to something that had absolutely NOTHING to do with anyone's in-game performance.

Edited by Escef, 12 January 2018 - 11:58 AM.

[SoulTsunami]

I just had my 1 year anniversary of playing. I'm probably right at a mediocre level of play. I appreciate players that are both better and worse than me. I like this game because nothing is ever really certain in a qp match.

[SOL Ranger]

The match in the picture is technically balanced even if the performance varies wildly within the teams themselves.

I've been trying to bring attention to alternative methods of matchmaker balancing for instance in terms of making interaction between the extremes of the weight classes much rarer.

Especially the dysfunctional interaction between lights and assaults is a reason for much polarised performance and frustration and it can be alleviated easily by just reducing the limits of the matchmaker for either class to be matched with its extreme counterpart very often. A kind of weight based heavy matchmaking could be achieved for a little bit of perceived fairness and more linear results regardless of skill level. Something like a 40t initial range for matchmaking could do wonders already or even narrower at lower tiers, that then progresses to a wider field if there is a player drought, at worst creating the current matches we see today.

Alternative other methods could involve truncating extreme mech properties to reduce the dysfunctional interaction of those extremes, however that could only be implemented partially as some properties aren't flexible due to lore requirements, like speed.

Regardless of the methods involved, adding more grey areas of possible interaction should be a primary concern for PGI, the polarisation of a lot of things in the game isn't promoting fun gameplay, especially for a 'slug it out' type mech game that often more resembles something between rock/paper/scissors and CS:GO for many players.

[El Bandito]

Even playing massively popular titles such as Overwatch, and LoL, I saw just as many lopsided games as MWO. And those games have only 5-6 player per team, so theoretically they should have much better MM, but it didn't seem the case.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 January 2018 - 09:39 PM.

[Vxheous]

Not all "Tier 1" players are equal, but the MM will treat them all as equal. For instance, take every person that has posted here that has a Tier 1 tag, and punch them into the jarl's list. I guarantee the average match scores of all these "Tier 1"s are going be be vastly different.

Jarl's list: https://leaderboard.isengrim.org/

Edit: Actually, doing exactly what I said, there is definitely some XP bar going on with some people.

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 16 January 2018 - 04:37 PM.
Cleaned up after removing other posts.

[Appogee]

It might work if they reset and redistributed players across the tiers, and changed the progression algorithm to make it equally possible to go down as up in the tiers.

But PGI won't even discuss matchmaking. So there's zero chance they're going to change it.

[WhineyThePoo]

No and no.

Plus you will always see 12-0 stomps in these kind of games where the is no re spawn, snowball effect and all that. Played WoT? There can be 100 000 players online and the games still looks exactly as they do in MWO