57 replies to this topic

[CK16]

Here we go again. New mech with a popular past and large fan base being said it's garbage, bad, ect.ect. ect.....That to be meta must mean we get this tiny narrow torso mechs (that usually are just a minor side note in Battletech/Mechwarrior history!!!) To be your ideal meta sheeter.....

Yet those same id....players argue tooth and nail that pin point 100% accurate always convergent weapon aim is not an issue with this game. That bad geo is only the mechs fault for why it's not ideal to play....

**** complaining about bad geo, start addressing the stupid *** pin point 100% convergent aim, specify for laser vomit.....Then maybe all mechs csn start being more viable for once.....and no your skills won't change much as good shoots still requiring knowing how to aim

Edited by CK16, 07 January 2018 - 08:52 PM.

[FupDup]

In a world of reduced or remove convergence, having bad geometry will still statistically increase the chances of certain body parts getting hit.

[Y E O N N E]

It would be garbage even with spread damage because it's so goddamn large that non-convergent weapons on 'Mechs with tightly grouped hardpoints would still hit the same spot.

You got any other complaints to complain about?

[N0ni]

Reduced or removed convergence would widen the gap between mechs with good geo compared to mechs with bad geo in the same weight class. In addition to meta builds (weapons with less convergence loss if only reduced from pinpoint) you'll also have meta MECHS (unintentional). Then people will just run mechs with the best geometry that can make use of the equipment with less convergence loss.

If you think it's bad now when you don't see dozens of chassis variants not being used because of some less than stellar reason, wait until that bombshell drops.

[FupDup]

Another factor to consider here is splat (SRMs, MRMs). They don't rely on pinpoint aiming anyways so they would very likely come out on top of such a change.

[N0ni]

If splat was on top, the Catapult A1 would be the best IS Heavy since it can boat missiles and has better geometry/hitboxes compared to the Archer.

WE'VE COME FULL CIRCLE LADIES AND GENTS!

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

So making all weapons spread damage somehow makes having hitboxes that automatically spread incoming damage that isn't pinpoint somehow not better than hitboxes that are so bad that even spread weapons easily single out components? And on top of this having weapons automatically spread doesn't reduce the effectiveness of aiming accurately?

K.

[justcallme A S H]

I cannot see how this illogical point was logically reached...

[Alex Morgaine]

I think making grouped fire only workable if an appropriate TC (1t per 5 Direct fire clan tons, 1: 4 IS) is equipped would change hop things a bit. There would be obvious issues ( missiles not effected by tc in general, lbx, etc) but that could be tweakable over time...

[Y E O N N E]

Now, the real question is whether or not CK16 will come back to this thread to defend his position, or if he'll just abandon his thread as is his usual modus operandi as a Hot-Take Discussion bomber.

[justcallme A S H]

Yeonne Greene, on 07 January 2018 - 10:20 PM, said:

Now, the real question is whether or not CK16 will come back to this thread to defend his position, or if he'll just abandon his thread as is his usual modus operandi as a Hot-Take Discussion bomber.

I hope the defense gets mounted - cause legit - I'm gonna struggle to read it without laughing so loud either my neighbours, staff or anyone else I'm around thinks I'm choking to death.

[Dago Red]

FupDup, on 07 January 2018 - 09:23 PM, said:

Another factor to consider here is splat (SRMs, MRMs). They don't rely on pinpoint aiming anyways so they would very likely come out on top of such a change.

But is that a bad thing though?

I'm all for the whole non pinpoint or at least a a target lock based dynamic convergence thing but I have no illusions that mechs with bad geometry are going to be saved by that. It's just all grump grump weapons are too damn accurate for this setting grumble grumble on my end.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

I thought the reason PGI gave up on the idea was because the game engine couldn't handle the large number of ray-tracings required, rather than because of any particular objection to the basic idea. Anyone remember the history better than I do?

[sycocys]

The Amazing Atomic Spaniel, on 08 January 2018 - 02:52 AM, said:

I thought the reason PGI gave up on the idea was because the game engine couldn't handle the large number of ray-tracings required, rather than because of any particular objection to the basic idea. Anyone remember the history better than I do?

They do actually still implement it to some extent, just not for anything but missiles and lbx.

Just consider how poorly the unguided missile launchers register damage most of the time, then apply that to all of your weapons systems. I have a feeling the vast majority of the playerbase would actually not like it if it was implemented all around.

One thing they could do I suppose that wouldn't totally destroy most weapons is give the arm reticule some motion while moving - since there is that and the invisible torso mounted one it would at least partially restrict the total convergence.

[C E Dwyer]

CK16, on 07 January 2018 - 08:51 PM, said:

Here we go again. New mech with a popular past and large fan base being said it's garbage, bad, ect.ect. ect.....That to be meta must mean we get this tiny narrow torso mechs (that usually are just a minor side note in Battletech/Mechwarrior history!!!) To be your ideal meta sheeter.....

Yet those same id....players argue tooth and nail that pin point 100% accurate always convergent weapon aim is not an issue with this game. That bad geo is only the mechs fault for why it's not ideal to play....

**** complaining about bad geo, start addressing the stupid *** pin point 100% convergent aim, specify for laser vomit.....Then maybe all mechs csn start being more viable for once.....and no your skills won't change much as good shoots still requiring knowing how to aim

I do get your point, but I have never defended pin point instant convergence.

I just gave up speaking out against it, because, the L33T must have it, and P.G.I lacking the ability to build a shrinking aim circle aka World of Tanks arn't interested in producing anything else.

[C E Dwyer]

The Amazing Atomic Spaniel, on 08 January 2018 - 02:52 AM, said:

I thought the reason PGI gave up on the idea was because the game engine couldn't handle the large number of ray-tracings required, rather than because of any particular objection to the basic idea. Anyone remember the history better than I do?

It was dropped, because they couldn't make it work with H.S.R, which I believe is also behind them finally admitting they're incapable of making I.K work

What we see with L.B.X, S.R.M's, MG's, Rac's etc, is a static spread within a circle of varying sizes, which can be reduced with a few skills or in the S.R.M's case Artemis. It's not a true convergence aiming system.

I guess it could be used for other weapons, but I think it would be even more unpopular, even with people that are in favour of an active min/max aiming reticle, than what we have now.

Edited by Cathy, 08 January 2018 - 08:48 AM.

[ANOM O MECH]

You're a die hard clanner complaining about convergence, especially with lazors?  The game is how old now? How many keystrokes are folks like you going to continue to waste on this topic?

[Dago Red]

tker 669, on 08 January 2018 - 10:24 AM, said:

You're a die hard clanner complaining about convergence, especially with lazors? The game is how old now? How many keystrokes are folks like you going to continue to waste on this topic?

As a die hard I.S. loyalist I'm never going to stop complaining about it so ............. shrug!

[sycocys]

Cathy, on 08 January 2018 - 08:47 AM, said:

What we see with L.B.X, S.R.M's, MG's, Rac's etc, is a static spread within a circle of varying sizes, which can be reduced with a few skills or in the S.R.M's case Artemis. It's not a true convergence aiming system.

Isn't it a static pattern shape, but dynamic change based on distance?

I wouldn't use the same system for everything, but there could be something to locking torso mounts to dead ahead, and adding momentum motion to the arms at least.

Dead straight torso mounts would get rid of ~90% of the alpha shot PP problem straight away.

[Mole]

Hasn't PGI stated multiple times that a convergance system is beyond their coding capabilities? I'm pretty sure they said that. It's pathetic, but it's true.

Edited by Mole, 08 January 2018 - 11:01 AM.