325 replies to this topic

[Hit the Deck]

Thanks PGI for buffing the HGR range!

As for you people, before the then new tech (one of it being the HGR) dropped, people had expected HGR's optimal range to be prebuffed to 270m because of the many drawbacks the weapon has.

[BTGbullseye]

I take no issue with the HGR minimum range increase, or the LGR cooldown decrease... The CERPPC and CMPL nerfs however make those weapons effectively useless compared to their IS counterparts.

The only thing I get from this is that, for some reason, PGI wants to make people stop playing as Clan.

[Meppoy]

A lot of things can be said about drawbacks of the HGRs, but let's put it clear: these days HGRs are most popular Tier 1 assault weapon. You can comfortably engage on 500 meters with it and make 50 pinpoint damage from a pair in your optimal, and don't forget about the backup weapon. And with all the Annihilators and Cyclops quirks screen-shaking and distance problems feel pretty unimportant. People are always whining about gigantic clan's alpha-strikes - but what about 80 pinpoint damage from 2 HGR and 6 mpl? And you can fire it two times in a row, use cool shot and fire two more.

I'm mostly a solo-quick player, and I see that average IS-clan mech ratio is already unbalanced. People prefer to play high-quirked low-duration IS mechs, and nobody can blame them. Everybody wanna win.

It's not even a question of these particular changes, it's a matter of dynamic. You can't stomp the whole faction into the ground time and again without making it backfire to the game balance. And if on the way to "adapt" to these changes I have to forget about the huge part of my mech hangar - I should say I really don't like this adaptation. The general direction itself is wrong.

[Trenchbird]

Meppoy, on 19 January 2018 - 11:05 PM, said:

A lot of things can be said about drawbacks of the HGRs, but let's put it clear: these days HGRs are most popular Tier 1 assault weapon. You can comfortably engage on 500 meters with it and make 50 pinpoint damage from a pair in your optimal, and don't forget about the backup weapon. And with all the Annihilators and Cyclops quirks screen-shaking and distance problems feel pretty unimportant. People are always whining about gigantic clan's alpha-strikes - but what about 80 pinpoint damage from 2 HGR and 6 mpl? And you can fire it two times in a row, use cool shot and fire two more.

Thing is, you're blowing it out of proportion; While dual HGR mechs do exist, there are several crippling and limiting factors to it. You aren't taking into account the low speed most DHGR mechs operate when they just have those two guns and enough ammo, let alone backup weapons; Or the fact that once that shell of armor on each ST is removed, those guns will explode and take an ST with them; Or the fact that they have cripplingly short optimal range compared to competing weapon setups despite the massive damage potential.

My point being, they aren't nearly as cracked up to be, even compared to the 'dreaded' triple-Gauss Cataphract. Those that run it are too prone to being easily outplayed, outran, outmaneuvered, even if they have a salvo that can destroy even a 40-ton mech with a single lucky hit. You are taking a serious drawback to mount a loadout with 50 pinpoint at a mere 220 meters, compared to the 2GR+6ERML loadout you sometimes see on Deathstrikes (Not bashing on it or saying it's OP, just using it as an example). Not to say that 50 points pinpoint hurts like hell, because it does, but there are things I am far, FAR more scared of running into in a dark alleyway than a Dual HGR Cyclops.

EDIT; Also as another perspective-dry(No ammo), two HGRs run you about 36 tons. That aformentioned weapon set on the Deathstrike weighs around 30, for a few extra points. Again, nothing else stated, that's a smidgen more firepower with a lot more versatility for less tonnage. Again, not trying to bash Clans; Just saying that there are more terrifying/potentially destructive things to run into.

Edited by Catten Hart, 19 January 2018 - 11:18 PM.

[BTGbullseye]

Catten Hart, on 19 January 2018 - 11:15 PM, said:

there are more terrifying/potentially destructive things to run into.

Like a dual UAC20 Deathstrike?

[Hit the Deck]

Meppoy, on 19 January 2018 - 11:05 PM, said:

A lot of things can be said about drawbacks of the HGRs, but let's put it clear: these days HGRs are most popular Tier 1 assault weapon. You can comfortably engage on 500 meters with it and make 50 pinpoint damage from a pair in your optimal, and don't forget about the backup weapon. And with all the Annihilators and Cyclops quirks screen-shaking and distance problems feel pretty unimportant. People are always whining about gigantic clan's alpha-strikes - but what about 80 pinpoint damage from 2 HGR and 6 mpl? And you can fire it two times in a row, use cool shot and fire two more.
....

The most you want to take would be 6 (ER)MLs, MPLs are just too heavy.

Your dual HGR mech is slow and vulnerable so the weapon is better be worth it. The whole point is indeed being able to deliver close ranged 50 pts of PPFLD, which the Clan has no counterpart to speak of. This is good for the game because it introduces different flavors to both side.

[Luminis]

I give PGI a lot of flak for their balancing decisions. These changes are better than expected.

HGauss buff is good. The weapon is fun but a huge investment. Double HGR hits like a truck but the 'Mechs carrying it go ~50 kph give or take; the Anni is heavily quirked in terms of armour, but the Sleipnir only gets structure and significantly less of that, Maulers get even less and the Loyalty Victor can't really run additional weapons.

LGauss is whatever. It's 100% useless now. The DPS increase might open up a niche for it. Doubt it, but we'll see. Good thing PGI's not letting it rot, though.

cERPPC I don't understand. Nerfing it... Eh, don't see the necessity. Adjusting quirks on the Warhawk or Summoner might make more sense since they're the only 'Mechs that actually run them to great effect I think, but... Well, a cooldown increase to a mostly heat limited weapon that's used for peaking. Meh.

The cMPL already seemed like a meh choice compared to the cERML to me in most applications. Pushing it further into a brawling role seems unnecessary but not very important overall, considering that Clan Laser Vomit typically revolves around ERLLs / HLLs, maybe LPLs + 4 - 6 ERMLs.

As for the Heat Gen nodes, I mathed that out for a reddit post, so here's the differences pre-nerf and post-nerf for some of the common Vomit combinations:

• 2 HLL 6 ERML was 52.805 heat previously, it's gonna be 54.044 post patch.
  
• 2 HLL 4 ERML is 44.75 old, 45.8 new.
  
• 2 ERLL 6 ERML is 43.497 old, 44,514 new.
  
• 2 ERLL 4 ERML is 35.442 old, 36.274 new.
  
• 6 ERML is 24.165 old, 24.732 new.

Meppoy, on 19 January 2018 - 11:05 PM, said:

I'm mostly a solo-quick player, and I see that average IS-clan mech ratio is already unbalanced. People prefer to play high-quirked low-duration IS mechs, and nobody can blame them. Everybody wanna win.

Except comp teams in, say, the World Championship, which brought mostly Clan 'Mechs? They didn't play to win, I guess?

As you can see from my sig, I'm pretty big on Clan 'Mechs. Love my Deathstrike in particular and won't get tired of arguing that the damn thing is the de facto best 'Mech in the game at the moment, to the point that I consider it slightly questionable that it's locked behind a paywall. That thing commands one of the biggest Alpha Strikes you can throw around without sporting missiles and just sandblasting stuff - while going 63 kph. It's not even limited to short-ish ranges FFS.

I get that people wanna defend their toys. I'm also glad the DS dodged nerfs in this patch - I fully expected it to get hammered with the C-Bill release of the MCII (and the MCII-B, for that matter). But c'mon, you can't really be of the opinion that Clan 'Mechs are the inferior choice at the moment and that they were dominating MRBC and the WC for no reason, right?

[Trenchbird]

BTGbullseye, on 19 January 2018 - 11:21 PM, said:

Like a dual UAC20 Deathstrike?

A good example, but that's kind of risky due to heat. I'd say more along the lines of 2XLB20X+4XSRM6A Scorch if we're going the lmassive-spread-damage-over-high-pinpoint CQC beatstick route. Or even worse, the eight SRM-6 Huntsman.

Edited by Catten Hart, 20 January 2018 - 12:59 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Meppoy, on 19 January 2018 - 11:05 PM, said:

A lot of things can be said about drawbacks of the HGRs, but let's put it clear: these days HGRs are most popular Tier 1 assault weapon. You can comfortably engage on 500 meters with it and make 50 pinpoint damage from a pair in your optimal, and don't forget about the backup weapon. And with all the Annihilators and Cyclops quirks screen-shaking and distance problems feel pretty unimportant. People are always whining about gigantic clan's alpha-strikes - but what about 80 pinpoint damage from 2 HGR and 6 mpl? And you can fire it two times in a row, use cool shot and fire two more.

50 PPFLD at 220 is not that big of a deal, not when you can slam out 84 splat at the same range and still get more than 50 in one spot. At worst, it's an even fight between an HGauss Assault and a sufficiently hefty splat brawler.

And the thing is, you are really talking about a PUG-smasher build. The 72/80/94 PP damage from an MCII is full all the way to at least 400 meters, it's useful to trade across a very broad range of scenarios even when the opposition is organized.

All of the HGauss 'Mechs have low mounts (even the FNR) and are slow (in the 50 kph range). Combine with short range, and those are easy, easy disadvantages to game. The HGauss builds practically count on people blundering into them. With the disorganized chaos that is QP, that's easy. With the bullsh*t game mode that is Siege in FP, it's required. Otherwise, they are easy to kite at range and 60 damage with ERML and HGauss at 400 meters on certain choice HGauss carriers (ANH-1X, MAL-2P) doesn't compare to 80.

Quote

I'm mostly a solo-quick player, and I see that average IS-clan mech ratio is already unbalanced. People prefer to play high-quirked low-duration IS mechs, and nobody can blame them. Everybody wanna win.

That's because Clans are effective, but also boring. That's what happens when the build restrictions are so lenient and the lightest and least sophisticated weapons are the most powerful items in the game.

IS have way more compromises, which makes it interesting. The 'Mechs feel better to run because the firepower is quantitatively inferior and PGI would rather compensate in other ways.

Quote

It's not even a question of these particular changes, it's a matter of dynamic. You can't stomp the whole faction into the ground time and again without making it backfire to the game balance. And if on the way to "adapt" to these changes I have to forget about the huge part of my mech hangar - I should say I really don't like this adaptation. The general direction itself is wrong.

You are already seeing the backfire. IS got overbuffed a bit in 2015, but instead of just moderately dialing it down they've been stripping quirks, nerfing weapons (RIP LPL), and reducing mobility (I know, shocker that this isn't a Clan-only affair) wholesale. And now that's backfiring because in all the strongest roles in the game save Light skirmishing and ERLL trading, the IS is on the losing side. But instead of restoring what was lost, PGI is continuing the pursuit of longer TTK and instead nerfing what was good on the other side.

I mean, really. I remember all the whinging about the BJ back when it was good. Then immediately when they nerf it they release the HBK-IIC, which is better than even the pre-nerf BJ ever was. So why can't we have that BJ back? Why nerf the Clan weapons instead of bringing back what made the IS competitive the last time? The game was far healthier back then, with more people playing. Both Clan and IS 'Mechs felt way better to pilot.

This trudge to longer TTKs has been nothing but miserable.

[Meppoy]

Luminis, on 19 January 2018 - 11:27 PM, said:

HGauss buff is good. The weapon is fun but a huge investment. Double HGR hits like a truck but the 'Mechs carrying it go ~50 kph give or take; the Anni is heavily quirked in terms of armour, but the Sleipnir only gets structure and significantly less of that, Maulers get even less and the Loyalty Victor can't really run additional weapons.

cERPPC I don't understand. Nerfing it... Eh, don't see the necessity. Adjusting quirks on the Warhawk or Summoner might make more sense since they're the only 'Mechs that actually run them to great effect I think, but... Well, a cooldown increase to a mostly heat limited weapon that's used for peaking. Meh.

The cMPL already seemed like a meh choice compared to the cERML to me in most applications. Pushing it further into a brawling role seems unnecessary but not very important overall, considering that Clan Laser Vomit typically revolves around ERLLs / HLLs, maybe LPLs + 4 - 6 ERMLs.

Except comp teams in, say, the World Championship, which brought mostly Clan 'Mechs? They didn't play to win, I guess?

I get that people wanna defend their toys. I'm also glad the DS dodged nerfs in this patch - I fully expected it to get hammered with the C-Bill release of the MCII (and the MCII-B, for that matter). But c'mon, you can't really be of the opinion that Clan 'Mechs are the inferior choice at the moment and that they were dominating MRBC and the WC for no reason, right?

I need to make it clear: HGR has no counterpart on the clan side. Just nothing to compare with, but OK, I can get it. I'm not even really worrying about this buff - I'll just wait till the game will be fit with a bunch of 6 Annihilators on both sides how it was with Kodiaks back in the days. And then nerfhammer will strike. Old story.

ERPPC is quite a niche weapon and it's not gonna be poorly performed after this patch. As I said, it's part of the dynamics.

cMPLs are not so popular nowadays exactly because of the distance-restrictions. Almost all the clan mechs are created to play through the distance advantage, and now it becomes even worth for cMPLs. I except people to switch to HML and ERML for some cases. I mean, cMPLs are not so popular today and it's gonna be even worse. As a fan of diversity I'm not happy about it at all.

And comp teams. Man, it really looks like a good point for a first glance, but it's not. First of all, not all the players in the game a competitive. The most efficient in the comp games builds are pretty tricky to use and not each player can manage it. Don't also forget about Commandos, Wolfhounds, Dragons - they were used as a best-performing mechs in their niches. And - the main point - championship was playing on the old game's version, which restricted players from using Annihilators.

And last point, about the "dominating the MRBC". I don't have a lot of information about this moment, but I didn't even mention it in my post. I'm speaking about the quick games, and yes, I can say that clan mechs are inferior choice in it. It is a balance problem and it's not gonna be better after this patch, not at all.

About Deathstrike - love this thing, it's amazing and it really works too good. Nobody wants this game to be a pay-to-win one. Though in hands of competent player it's almost the same efficient or maybe slightly better than HGR Annihilator.

And anyway, thanks for the good discussion consistent logic. It's my pleasure to have such a dialog.

[Falconer Cyrus]

> Clan ER PPC
> Cooldown increased to 5 (from 4.5).
Well, let's see what builds suffered from this and in which way?
1) Warhawk-Prime with 4 erPPC
- medium performance mech already limited by heat.
2) erPPC-Cat
- this poor thing have enough performance hits from PGI in the last 2 years. Once upon a time it was a mech funny to play. It is not already and PGI keep nerfing it.

What else?

Edited by Falconer Cyrus, 20 January 2018 - 12:23 AM.

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

Meppoy, on 20 January 2018 - 12:14 AM, said:

About Deathstrike - love this thing, it's amazing and it really works too good. Nobody wants this game to be a pay-to-win one. Though in hands of competent player it's almost the same efficient or maybe slightly better than HGR Annihilator.

'Maybe'?

As someone who owns both a Deathstrike (yay 40% off sales) and an HGR Anni, the DS is so much easier to use it isn't funny. Range, mobility, poptarting, and decent hardpoints alone make it way better, even before you factor in Clantech.

Yeah, the Clans don't have a 25+ damage ballistic (yet), but they also don't need to get into sneezing range to pump you full of 60+ alphas.

[Meppoy]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 January 2018 - 12:14 AM, said:

That's because Clans are effective, but also boring. That's what happens when the build restrictions are so lenient and the lightest and least sophisticated weapons are the most powerful items in the game.

IS have way more compromises, which makes it interesting. The 'Mechs feel better to run because the firepower is quantitatively inferior and PGI would rather compensate in other ways.

Thanks for saying it. There is the problem with the gameplay on clan mechs, and it's not correcting in the upcoming patch. Most of the clan mechs can't be played as a brawlers, they can't even efficiently participate in mid-close range traiding because of the lower amount of armor and structure, so yes, that side has a quite more boring game style. I want it to be fixed. But clans got another nerf which pushes them even deeper in the existing niche, and some people just say that it's fine. Well, I disagree with this point.

I also agree that it would be way better for the game to improve unpopular weapon systems. There is too much toxic attention to good ones. Hm, today I saw 2 UAC-20 Mad Cat IIC in the game. He died fast and miserably. It was first time for three months I saw UAC-20 in the game.

[Y E O N N E]

Meppoy, on 20 January 2018 - 12:26 AM, said:

Thanks for saying it. There is the problem with the gameplay on clan mechs, and it's not correcting in the upcoming patch. Most of the clan mechs can't be played as a brawlers, they can't even efficiently participate in mid-close range traiding because of the lower amount of armor and structure, so yes, that side has a quite more boring game style. I want it to be fixed. But clans got another nerf which pushes them even deeper in the existing niche, and some people just say that it's fine. Well, I disagree with this point.

I also agree that it would be way better for the game to improve unpopular weapon systems. There is too much toxic attention to good ones. Hm, today I saw 2 UAC-20 Mad Cat IIC in the game. He died fast and miserably. It was first time for three months I saw UAC-20 in the game.

I mean, the Clan mid-range game is so powerful that it's shutting down the short-range game on both sides. The IS mid-range game is actually pretty pathetic until you get to these HGauss carriers, but that's 90-100 ton 'Mechs competing against 65 ton, heat-quirked Hellbringers slamming out 71 points twice in quick succession and still keeping up solid DPS at the heat limit, to say nothing of those Deathstrikes and Supernovas. Mid-range laser vom Battlemasters and Banshees can't compete with that; they can't even twist properly, let alone reasonably carry alphas in excess of 52.

The things that got nerfed on the Clan side this patch are part of the problem weapons. cMPL boats were shutting down brawlers by slamming out so much cold, pinpoint damage with that short cooldown. They were even overlapping mightily with isER Mediums with their 330/561 range and superior everything else. cERPPCs were stomping on Summoners and WHKs, shutting down advances with no counter on the other side (that IS ERPPC still generate more heat than damage is ridiculous). Having Heat Gen nodes as powerful as IS when you are already up on heat efficiency (hooray massed cDHS) was exacerbating the output problem. And this is only a minor nerf.

And that's why the ASN getting nerfed is such a big deal. It's not because it's a good IS 'Mech, it's because it was one 'Mech that was so good at close quarters that it was useful in this mid-range trade-dominated meta that Clan lasers and Clan DHS have created. But instead of making other 'Mechs so good in their respective niches that they can overcome, they chose to nerf the ASN. GG.

[Luminis]

Meppoy, on 20 January 2018 - 12:14 AM, said:

I need to make it clear: HGR has no counterpart on the clan side. Just nothing to compare with, but OK, I can get it. I'm not even really worrying about this buff - I'll just wait till the game will be fit with a bunch of 6 Annihilators on both sides how it was with Kodiaks back in the days. And then nerfhammer will strike. Old story.

The HGR not having a counterpart on the Clan side, in and off itself, isn't much of a big deal. Both sides having a couple unique weapon systems is a good thing, imho, lest we eternally be stuck with the sole differentiation being that Clans get the same stuff but lighter, hotter, more compact, with more damage and more heat and spread to compensate. I'd like something more interesting like ATMs or Heavy Lasers for Clans (HAG when?!) but this is a different issue, I suppose.

The comparison with the pre-nerf KDK is absolutely hilarious, for lack of a better word. But suffice to say, if the Deathstrike didn't get a nerf, PGI's probably fine buffing the hell out of HGRs and / or any chassis that can carry them without getting anywhere near nerf-worthy territory. The MCII-B and MCII-DS will have to be hammered down long before that and I say that as someone who bought the MCII pack immediately.

Meppoy, on 20 January 2018 - 12:14 AM, said:

ERPPC is quite a niche weapon and it's not gonna be poorly performed after this patch. As I said, it's part of the dynamics.

I don't quite agree with the cERPPC nerf myself, but for the love of god, remember that before the skill tree, IS was ~ 6% behind Clans in whatever performance metrics PGI uses; the skill tree effectively buffed Clans (higher base values for the percentages to work off of), engine de-sync hit both sides and the IS lost a lot of its bigger quirks.

The only 'dynamics' are Clans being dialed back to where they were pre-Skill Tree. It's a bit annoying that some mediocre Clan 'Mechs are suffering due to that (the TBR comes to mind), but Clans as a whole aren't gonna be in a bad place afterwards.

Meppoy, on 20 January 2018 - 12:14 AM, said:

cMPLs are not so popular nowadays exactly because of the distance-restrictions. Almost all the clan mechs are created to play through the distance advantage, and now it becomes even worth for cMPLs. I except people to switch to HML and ERML for some cases. I mean, cMPLs are not so popular today and it's gonna be even worse. As a fan of diversity I'm not happy about it at all.

I agree with that; the solution would've been a slight buff the IS MPL, if necessary. However, I see this mostly as an issue with balance among Clan lasers more than anything. The ERML is just too damn efficient...

Meppoy, on 20 January 2018 - 12:14 AM, said:

And comp teams. Man, it really looks like a good point for a first glance, but it's not. First of all, not all the players in the game a competitive. The most efficient in the comp games builds are pretty tricky to use and not each player can manage it. Don't also forget about Commandos, Wolfhounds, Dragons - they were used as a best-performing mechs in their niches. And - the main point - championship was playing on the old game's version, which restricted players from using Annihilators.

Players sucking isn't an excuse to leave things imbalanced. I know the skill gap is real, we all saw that with the Dragon Hype following the WC. And yes, not all IS 'Mechs suck. Never said they did, I'm saying there's significantly more competitive choices on the Clan side.

Fair point about the Anni, but the same thing goes for the MCII which is unequivocally considered to be one of the top Assaults chassis in the game.

Meppoy, on 20 January 2018 - 12:14 AM, said:

And last point, about the "dominating the MRBC". I don't have a lot of information about this moment, but I didn't even mention it in my post. I'm speaking about the quick games, and yes, I can say that clan mechs are inferior choice in it. It is a balance problem and it's not gonna be better after this patch, not at all.

I know you didn't bring up MRBC but I don't think that matters, to be honest. Point is, I think the folks playing in the actual competitive leagues have the game figured out pretty well, most likely (moreso than your bracket build wielding QP PUGs) and have incentive to bring the good stuff instead of messing around with something because it's fun.

My word against yours, I guess, because from my experience (and going by my 'Mech stats), Clan 'Mechs are the better pick in QP. Many reasons why our opinions differ there, potentially, as both sides have some innate advantages that may or may not fit your piloting.

Meppoy, on 20 January 2018 - 12:14 AM, said:

About Deathstrike - love this thing, it's amazing and it really works too good. Nobody wants this game to be a pay-to-win one. Though in hands of competent player it's almost the same efficient or maybe slightly better than HGR Annihilator.

As I pilot both lately, I find the DS far easier to do well in -partially because the ERLL version can fight relatively well at ~ 800 meters against anything that isn't a ERLL BLR and all versions just shred stuff at ~ 500 meters; it also has the speed to get you to the appropriate range fairly easily. The speed and versatile range profile are a huge advantage, especially in a chaotic environment such as PUG QP.

The MCII-B is up there too, for that matter (though that'd have to go up against the 5x UAC5 Anni, which, I think, is the more competitive build anyway). I mean, maybe I just need to get better at dealing with the < 50 kph speed and you're just using it way better than I do (I do hope you've played both and aren't just basing your judgement of the HGR Anni on bumping into one and getting dunked), but I think the DS is by far the best Assault.

Meppoy, on 20 January 2018 - 12:14 AM, said:

And anyway, thanks for the good discussion consistent logic. It's my pleasure to have such a dialog.

Agreed. It's rare to not see these discussions boil down to name calling and stuff.

Edited by Luminis, 20 January 2018 - 12:59 AM.

[Slowth]

So the excellent Clan heat sink tech has been nerfed, all their weapons made to run hotter and now they're nerfing the **** out of the heat reduction tree.
You've also made every clan laser burn longer.
This is now bat **** stupid.
I know you want balance but this has become a joke.
Why do you constantly bring stuff down?
Why not balance some stuff (armour, heat, damage) by bringing some stuff UP?

[Trenchbird]

Slowth, on 20 January 2018 - 01:00 AM, said:

So the excellent Clan heat sink tech has been nerfed, all their weapons made to run hotter and now they're nerfing the **** out of the heat reduction tree.
You've also made every clan laser burn longer.
This is now bat **** stupid.
I know you want balance but this has become a joke.
Why do you constantly bring stuff down?
Why not balance some stuff (armour, heat, damage) by bringing some stuff UP?

Damn it, people were having a nice discussion. Stop ruining it.

Otherwise, this is going to be like a homeless man taking a horrendous hobo-crap on your front lawn (Or your freshly waxed Bugatti, or whatever). Beautiful until the poop hits it.

What I'm saying is, the poop is whining to whine. The car or lawn is the discussion. Please just no.

Edited by Catten Hart, 20 January 2018 - 01:07 AM.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

R.I.P. Clanmechs.

R.I.P. CW.

Game over.

[Trenchbird]

Kinski Orlawisch, on 20 January 2018 - 01:32 AM, said:

R.I.P. Clanmechs.

R.I.P. CW.

Game over.

You stop that too. We just talked about this.

(Some 'Nightmare'. I'd expect a nightmare to whine less. Must be the 'Mother is visiting' sort of Nightmare.)

Edited by Catten Hart, 20 January 2018 - 01:38 AM.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

Cry? ROFL NO...We just go IS.