325 replies to this topic

[Charles Sennet]

So... when I read all the comments about Clan OP, I am forced to wonder why any IS mechs are taken in Quick Play or at all. Why bother taking equipment so (as argued time and time again) inferior? If Clans were so superior, then the QP teams with the most Clan mechs would win. Obviously that is not happening so why are these changes needed again? The notion of 12-v-12 does not imply that great a difference since overall balance seems to be reasonable (albeit different) based on base tech.

But, I am updating my list of IS advantages with this patch:

-IS has the fastest mech in the game available for C-Bills (matters for domination, conquest, and scouting)
-IS has the lightest mech in the game available for C-Bills (matters for drop deck options)
-IS has the tankiest mechs in the game (matters for objective modes like Siege and Domination)
-IS has the only 120 mech in the game (ANH with quirks)
-IS has the ability to fire 3 LL without ghost heat penalty (higher alpha-DPS at range)
-IS has a better skill tree with higher values in key regions
-IS has the only 50 pinpoint alpha in the game
-IS has much greater flexibility in weapons (RAC's, MRM's, Light Gauss,et al)
-IS has 300 extra tons in FP and 20 tons in scouting

Add to this 50% of Faction Play forces close range confrontations which naturally favors IS anyway. Now Clans mid-range advantage is under attack. What will be left for Clans once this is gone (seems to be PGI's long-term goal)?

The optics here would have been much better if PGI had at least taken the long overdue (since CW tech release) step of equalizing tonnages in Scouting.

Edited by Charles Sennet, 20 January 2018 - 07:31 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Dago Red, on 20 January 2018 - 05:51 AM, said:

The medium pulse range nerf feels a little harsh but overall not a lot to complain about.

Likely due to builds that are JUST medium pulses on ebons, supernovas, MAD2Cs, linebackers, etc

[Luminis]

Charles Sennet, on 20 January 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

So... when I read all the comments about Clan OP, I am forced to wonder why any IS mechs are taken in Quick Play or at all. Why bother taking equipment so (as argued time and time again) inferior?

Can only speak for myself, but largely because I eventually get bored AF playing the same 'Mechs over and over. Probably the same reason you see people still bring objectively inferior 'Mechs and builds in general.

Also, if the IS has so many advantages, why aren't they more prevalent in comp?

/edit:
Does anyone else notice how after every patch that contains a slap on the wrist for Clan stuff, everyone bawling their eyes out about how IS is superior now and then, it kinda sorta still isn't?

Edited by Luminis, 20 January 2018 - 07:19 AM.

[RustyBolts]

@ Luminus, because comp play is predominantly a peak and poke game and not a brawl game like most QP games. The brawl in comp play only comes after an extended time of peak and poke by trying to shave off armor and do damage. Peak and poke benefits the clans because they have to hide and cool down after every alpha.

[Charles Sennet]

Luminis, on 20 January 2018 - 07:16 AM, said:

Also, if the IS has so many advantages, why aren't they more prevalent in comp?

A: Comp is a very different game mode than FP or QP. It is mostly range-trade which is Clans last remaining advantag and that advantage is disapearing each patch. Last month it as cERLL that took a hit. This month cERPPC and cMPL. What will it be next month?

BTW, even EmP said that they would have re-evaluated cERLL if the Tournament build had the most recent changes.

Edited by Charles Sennet, 20 January 2018 - 07:30 AM.

[Vellron2005]

So clans are getting nerfed yet again...

What else is new?

[Steve Pryde]

Clan medium pulse l4s0rs op pls nurf LOOOL

edit: When you're buffing HG range to nearly ac20 optimal range, you should remove ghost heat on ac20, really.

Edited by Steve Pryde, 20 January 2018 - 08:12 AM.

[Your Father Really]

Hello Everyone,

No use in complaining, nothing will change. Stop spending on clan mechs, since either them or their weapons will be nerfed. They implement a nerf, and bring out a new mech to sooth players and make them dip into their pockets. I can give examples, looking at the data are we ? I have to laugh at that, anything can be manipulated. As for faction, what is the use of playing it ? You are just feeding someones KDR, lmao.

They wont get what their doing, since its not them being impacted. Play quick play, use either clan or IS mechs(if you love faction,go IS). Try and go on as usual, since I don't think anything will change for the best. Easy to point out mechs that are so overpowering, like I said nothing will be done. So to end this, go through everything done to clans in the last 12 months if you are still okay with that then keep buying clan mechs.

PS Lets see if this post stays lmao !(screenshot)

Edited by Your Father Really, 20 January 2018 - 08:35 AM.

[AngrySpartan]

Wooow, HGR and LGR buffs to range and cooldown? It took half a year to listen to things community suggested right from the beginning, during PTS session.

I wonder how long would it take to give some love to cUAC20s, it's years overdue...
and to bring back SPLs (5 damage PGI!!! they need to be 5 damage and higher cooldown, not pee shooters as they are now!)...
and fix HSLs to be even remotely usefull...
and fix 100-tonners mobility...
and it would a very long list if all gamemode problems will be included.

Edited by AngrySpartan, 20 January 2018 - 08:41 AM.

[D V Devnull]

And now for a post aimed at far more than just this one person...

---

Luminis, on 20 January 2018 - 07:16 AM, said:

/edit:
Does anyone else notice how after every patch that contains a slap on the wrist for Clan stuff, everyone bawling their eyes out about how IS is superior now and then, it kinda sorta still isn't?

Incorrect, and flat damned wrong. Heck, I hope you're just being sarcastic. Have you taken a look at the Faction Warfare Map over the last several months? Inner Sphere Tech is DEFINITELY OverPowered now. Clans used to have an equal footing around two Patches before last, and have been losing ground since Last Months' Patch like crazy. Worse, with all the Clan Tech Nerfs (and since I got hazed over an accidental snooze caused by my body knocking me out at the wrong time), I've been rather hesitant to jump into the Invasion Queue. But now we're seeing...

• PGI listen to the wrong people from the Competitive Player Pool
  
• PGI stacking on further hurts against Non-Competitive Players... (MechWarrior was never really meant to be an E-Sports thing in the first place...)
  
• PGI adding insult to injury against the group of Casual-Class Players who DON'T play 'The Bloody Meta' because it doesn't work with how they function
  
• PGI making changes that further cripple people with old computers and non-perfect brains who were barely scraping by

...and MWO's now looking like a junk pile that will drive a bunch more people out. I'll be personally taking a Breaking Hit to an Entire Tech Side that I had extreme trouble keeping effective due to my running Non-Standard Builds. Builds that I ran due to my being Anything Other than a brawler. Now with this Next Monthly Patch? They just won't work anymore, and as a Casual-Class Non-Meta Player that is NOT Meta-Compatible, I'm pretty much forced out. Maybe I should go look at "MechWarrior: Living Legends"??? PGI sure doesn't think about their 'Non-MainStream Player Group'!

~Mr. D. V. "Gave an effort, but being constantly pushed past the Breaking Point... Now I'm breaking down..." Devnull

[MovinTarget]

Charles Sennet, on 20 January 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

So... when I read all the comments about Clan OP, I am forced to wonder why any IS mechs are taken in Quick Play or at all. Why bother taking equipment so (as argued time and time again) inferior? If Clans were so superior, then the QP teams with the most Clan mechs would win. Obviously that is not happening so why are these changes needed again? The notion of 12-v-12 does not imply that great a difference since overall balance seems to be reasonable (albeit different) based on base tech.

But, I am updating my list of IS advantages with this patch:

-IS has the fastest mech in the game available for C-Bills (matters for domination, conquest, and scouting)
-IS has the lightest mech in the game available for C-Bills (matters for drop deck options)
-IS has the tankiest mechs in the game (matters for objective modes like Siege and Domination)
-IS has the only 120 mech in the game (ANH with quirks)
-IS has the ability to fire 3 LL without ghost heat penalty (higher alpha-DPS at range)
-IS has a better skill tree with higher values in key regions
-IS has the only 50 pinpoint alpha in the game
-IS has much greater flexibility in weapons (RAC's, MRM's, Light Gauss,et al)
-IS has 300 extra tons in FP and 20 tons in scouting

Add to this 50% of Faction Play forces close range confrontations which naturally favors IS anyway. Now Clans mid-range advantage is under attack. What will be left for Clans once this is gone (seems to be PGI's long-term goal)?

The optics here would have been much better if PGI had at least taken the long overdue (since CW tech release) step of equalizing tonnages in Scouting.

Well in the interest of acknowledging the effort is to encourage balance rather than screw Clans for no good reason, can you at least acknowledge that clans still have some real advantages, making the techs *different*

Also:
Fastest mechs in game does not matter in in Domination, we are talking a second or two in difference making it to the circle. If you lose by a second or two, lacking a few kph is the least of your concerns.
-Seriously, try a footrace between the fastest clan and IS mechs, you'd be surprised at how little distance is gained in the run from DZ to circle.

Lightest mechs in game for cbills - fine I'll give that one *for now*, but you won't be able to cry about Locusts in 5-6 months and you'll also find out how fragile 20t is vs a streakboat, and if you think the queues won't be flooded with $$ purchased Piranha come Tuesday, you're kidding yourself.

3 LL no ghost heat, Sure, but my 3 ERLL Cougar can out range and out perform any 35 tom 3 LL IS mech because the DHS are better and small and can survive a torso loss with XL.

IS may have the only 50 pinpoint dmg but Clams get better poptarts.

IS has greater flexiblity? Do we have heavy Lasers? do we have micro lasers? do we have lighter weapons? smaller DHS? ATMs? can we take an XL and not think twice? Oh lets not forget our Omnipods.... oh wait....

IS gets 300 extra tons in FP... and that is helping us crush you at every turn? If memory serves, its only in th past month or so that we've actually *held our own* some phases instead of getting steamrolled every time.

Point here, Chuck, is not that Clans are OP, but trying to shine a light on the fact that sides are being balanced... at least thats the idea. It's easy to for some to ignore their own inherent advantages b/c the grass is greener on the other side. The price of them not continuing to tinker is to bring the avg W/L in FP close to 50/50 overall.

Also consider that almost every single thing in you list is a function of the fact that clan tech was outright superior out of the gate and made the game un-fun for anyone seeking a competitive experieince (clan or IS).

So perhaps we should have only Clan v Clan and IS v IS and not intermingle at.all. not if QP, not in FP.

Is that what people want?

Edited by MovinTarget, 20 January 2018 - 09:38 AM.

[Kojak Bear]

Shadow Hawk




• SHD-2D has received a -5% Missile Spread Quirk.
• SHD-2D now has a +10 Structure Bonus for the Left Arm and Right Arm (up from 5).
• SHD-2D has received a global -10% Weapon Cooldown Quirk.
With the addition of this global -10% Weapon Cooldown Quirk, the existing Cooldown Quirks have been removed or adjusted:[indent]

• -15% Ballistic Cooldown Quirk has been reduced to -5%.[/indent][indent]

• -10% Energy Cooldown Quirk has been removed.[/indent]





• SHD-5M has received a global -20% UAC Jam Chance Quirk.
With the addition of this global -20% UAC Jam Chance Quirk, the existing -20% UAC5 Jam Chance Quirk has been removed.
• SHD-5M has received a global -10% Weapon Cooldown Quirk.
With the addition of this global -10% Weapon Cooldown Quirk, the following Cooldown Quirks have been removed:[indent]

• -10% Ballistic Cooldown Quirk has been removed.[/indent][indent]

• -10% Energy Cooldown Quirk has been removed.[/indent][indent]

• The -10% UAC5 Cooldown Quirk remains.[/indent]




• SHD-2H/SHD-2H [C]/SHD-2H [P] have received a -10% Laser Duration Quirk.


• SHD-2H/SHD-2H [C]/SHD-2H [P] have received a global -15% Weapon Cooldown Quirk.[url=""%5D%5B/url%5D
With the addition of this global -15% Weapon Cooldown Quirk, the existing -15% Ballistic Cooldown Quirk has been removed.



%5Bcolor="#3073f3"]Shadow Hawk Design Notes:[/color][color="#3073f3"] We have targeted a handful of under-performing Shadow Hawk variants for improvements in this patch to boost them a bit against their alternative variants.[/color]




Dear PGI,

After all this time thank you for finally showing love to the Shadow Hawks. One thing though: isn't the Gray Death also under-performing? Maybe you could lump the AC 10 cooldown into general Ballistic cooldown? Because one AC 10 is just worthless, especially when your back-up weapons are low-mounted and the (shield) arms can be shot off easily. And maybe shift half of the structure to armor?

Also, since the HGRs are receiving a buff, maybe remove the ghost heat of the AC 20, UAC 20, C-AC 20 and C-UAC 20?

The cMPL Nerf and the Heat Gen skill nerf to the Clans feel utterly uncalled for.

[Mcgral18]

Wow

This thread is hilarious

A congregation of Clam Apologists, crying about nothing

The Sphere isn't about to get better than the Clams
They will retain their throne, with the best robots in the game


Being a Cryhard doesn't make them any worse, just bother to shoot robots with superior weapons

[SFC174]

madcat3050, on 19 January 2018 - 10:03 PM, said:

Clan Medium Pulse Laser

• Max Range reduced to 480 (from 561).
Clan Medium Pulse Laser Design Notes: Due to the 50% extra Optimal Range over the IS Medium Pulse Laser, the Max Range of the Clan Medium Pulse Laser extended to a point where it was being utilized in ways that we felt made the weapon too much of a generalist compared to its IS counterpart. The Max Range has therefore been reduced to a point where there is much closer parity between the two weapons in terms of Max Range. However, the Clans will continue to possess superior Optimal Range and Damage.


Or you could just like buff IS MPL???????????

This. So much this. Quit nerfing weapons people like to play (CMPL and CERPPC happen to be 2 of my favorites) and buff the ones they don't. You've screwed over CSPL, CMPL, CERML and CERSL so far. Why not buff the IS counterparts instead? That way instead of reducing my clan (and overall) playing time, I might spend more time messing about with my IS mechs. I'll be lucky if I break 100 games this season and next.....oof.

[Trenchbird]

Lexandro Wolf, on 20 January 2018 - 04:19 AM, said:

Its a joke, right...?! Why you support the IS only??? IS has lot of Quirks, clan has lot of penalties... Please look the orinigal weapon statistics in the Battletech Universe...

What the hell are you talking about? This is an FPS, not the tabletop. Get your head out of that hole in the ground.

This isn't the same, and the IS should not be ruthlessly shoved into the ground by superior-by-tabletop-stats Clantech. We aren't balancing the board game. IS needs some things going for it in this.

Edited by Catten Hart, 20 January 2018 - 09:56 AM.

[Mercarryn]

Quote

Shadow Hawk


• SHD-2D has received a -5% Missile Spread Quirk.
• SHD-2D now has a +10 Structure Bonus for the Left Arm and Right Arm (up from 5).
• SHD-2D has received a global -10% Weapon Cooldown Quirk.
With the addition of this global -10% Weapon Cooldown Quirk, the existing Cooldown Quirks have been removed or adjusted:[indent]

• -15% Ballistic Cooldown Quirk has been reduced to -5%.[/indent][indent]

• -10% Energy Cooldown Quirk has been removed.[/indent]



• SHD-5M has received a global -20% UAC Jam Chance Quirk.
With the addition of this global -20% UAC Jam Chance Quirk, the existing -20% UAC5 Jam Chance Quirk has been removed.
• SHD-5M has received a global -10% Weapon Cooldown Quirk.
With the addition of this global -10% Weapon Cooldown Quirk, the following Cooldown Quirks have been removed:[indent]

• -10% Ballistic Cooldown Quirk has been removed.[/indent][indent]

• -10% Energy Cooldown Quirk has been removed.[/indent][indent]

• The -10% UAC5 Cooldown Quirk remains.[/indent]

• SHD-2H/SHD-2H [C]/SHD-2H [P] have received a -10% Laser Duration Quirk.
• SHD-2H/SHD-2H [C]/SHD-2H [P] have received a global -15% Weapon Cooldown Quirk.
[url=""%5D%5B/url%5D
With the addition of this global -15% Weapon Cooldown Quirk, the existing -15% Ballistic Cooldown Quirk has been removed.

Well, I am bit surprised, that the Shadow Hawk SHD-5M gets a general UAC jam chance quirk, although, to my mind, it is not in need of it. The SHD-5M has 2 high ballistic slots which makes it a perfect UAC5 carrier, especially with LFE arround, making profit of the 2 remaining crits slots in left torso left after you install 2 UAC5 in the torso.
Giving the SHD-5M more options in regards to UACs is nice, but not that necessary. Cannot comment on its other new quirks, as I do not own a SHD-5M.

On the other hand, the Wolverine WVR-7D is similar in carrying UAC5, but is severly limited due to the locations of both the ballistic slots (max of 8-slot ballistic possible) and its only energy slot in the head. Thus the Wolverine 7D is not able to carry 2 Ultra AC5, or anything bigger than a medium laser.
Well, I would have rather seen a general UAC jam quirk on the Wolverine, than on the SHD-5M, as the latter one can rely on the massive crit space in torso and new tech, while the WVR-7D could carry anything up to gauss rifle or AC 10, but cannot really make use of it due to quirks, thus it needs to rely on its left torso missile hardpoints.

What I want to say is that the Wolverine 7D could have better used a general UAC jam quirk, even with decreasing it to, let's say 20%, but it could better make used of th UAC 2 or 10. A single UAC 5 does not work that good in my mind.

Edited by Mercarryn, 20 January 2018 - 09:52 AM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

SFC174, on 20 January 2018 - 09:06 AM, said:

This. So much this. Quit nerfing weapons people like to play (CMPL and CERPPC happen to be 2 of my favorites) and buff the ones they don't.

Someone seriously using cerppc by now? Oh boy, they are probably the only weapons which produce more heat than damage and they seemingly have issues with hit registration.

Edited by Nema Nabojiv, 20 January 2018 - 10:04 AM.

[GweNTLeR]

HGR 22% range boost is a bit too much...you should have started with 11% boost, up to 200M optimal, calculate the metrics and get a decision to boost it more or leave... or just have taken another option - to normalize base ammo damage on HGR (125->150). HGR boost was necessary (to make it work as a single weapon), but what you did is WAY TOO MUCH, dual HGR mechs would be MUCH MUCH stronger after patching.
LGR buff is much appreciated.
C-ERPPC CD nerf is not really a big deal - on most mechs it is a heat capped weapon after all.
C-MPL range nerf could be just, but then if you try to normalize everything YOU SHOULD DROP IT'S HEAT GEN too (to IS levels).
You shouldn't have touched clan heat gen nodes THIS patch - you made enough changes to shift a balance even without them. You should have gained more statistics and then make a decision.

Nema Nabojiv, on 20 January 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

Someone seriously using cerppc by now? Oh boy, they are probably the only weapons which produce more heat than damage and they seemingly have issues with hit registration.

My experience with C-ERPPC is completely different then yours - I find them among the best weapons.

Edited by GweNTLeR, 20 January 2018 - 10:21 AM.

[Reposter]

Reworks or buffs that I feel are still needed:

1. Please rework NARC to make it more newbie friendly, like maybe making it easier to hit or have more range or has the fire rate of an autocannon while having maybe 5% more ammo per ton?

2. Rework Streak-SRMs such that they can also fire without acquiring lock on, but maybe the spread is higher without lock on.

3. I think it might be ok to give Clan ER-Medium lasers a slight decrease in cool down, but not too sure, 4 secs cool down is a bit more hang time then Inner Spher ER-Medium lasers.

4. Rework or buff the quirks for IS Mechs that are not frequently use... feel free to discuss further what you think are Mechs that are not frequently used.

Ok, just my opinion, hope the devs think about it.

[Black Ivan]

Clan Med Pulse Laser was unnecessary.

The patch does not change the fact that the Assasins is so good because the damage does not register.