17 replies to this topic

[Jonathan8883]

I didn't see a MW5 forum anywhere, sorry.

Traditionally, ejection has been "game over" in the MechWarrior games. Mission failed, you're dead. In MechWarrior 5, you're just a mercenary. There are rules of war, and you have rights as a POW. If you eject, your 'Mech is gone - but you still have a bank account somewhere. It makes sense to lose a few months as a captive, and possibly pay a ransom or make an agreement to leave the planet, not fight against House X for 5 years, etc. - but to be able to continue playing as long as you have the funds to replace your lost Mech(s).

Obviously, there would be certain exceptions - for example, if you take on an assassination mission, or are dealing with certain parts of the DCMS, you might get executed if you lose - but otherwise, a mission failure should not end your game. In addition to the added realism, this prevents "I always win"/"save and reload" gameplay, which is far too common.

If or when PGI does a Clan expansion covering 3050-3057, this opens up the opportunity to become a bondsman if you perform adequately before being forced to punch out, complete with a whole slew of new mission opportunities, possibly even varying depending on which Clan you lose to (no Bloodhouse/Khan shenanigans please).
Adding that much new content would probably justify making the expansion a stand-alone, or having a higher price point, which is good for PGI.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Thats all well and good, but who's realistically going to do it when you can just load previous save.

There was this thing in Mount and Blade, and I remember using it only in the very beginning when you dont have much to lose anyway.

[sycocys]

I believe you are overthinking PGI's ability.

Just expect that MW5 is going to be little more than a list of missions with pre-determined variables and ai that will look pretty because its not being built on an ancient buggy engine.

[xVLFBERHxT]

I always thought it would be nice, if a future mechwarrior mercenary title took some good ideas from the mount & blade warband series, to evolve into an infinite sandbox/ simulation game.

Edited by xVLFBERHxT, 20 January 2018 - 07:16 AM.

[Jonathan8883]

Nema Nabojiv, on 20 January 2018 - 06:36 AM, said:

Thats all well and good, but who's realistically going to do it when you can just load previous save.

There was this thing in Mount and Blade, and I remember using it only in the very beginning when you dont have much to lose anyway.

It has to be interesting, like impacting faction reputation.

It's probably not in PGI's wheelhouse, but this could be managed narratively through short text interludes that offer some multiple-choice reactions, similar to how Space Rangers II or Planescape Torment handled things.

Also: Iron Man mode in exchange for a 50% higher drop rate for rare/valuable options (left-over SL-era mechs, higher % chance of market availability for better new-Tech mechs, higher % chance of missions that lead to higher quality salvage).

[BumbleBee]

In MW2:Mercs, mission failure was usually not game over, but that was by fleeing the map or by objective failure. Losing one of the bigger contract missions often gave you either a modified next mission, or in some cases a very different next mission

[MechaBattler]

Well they're going to support modding. So get your modding friends and do it.

[Taffer]

Nema Nabojiv, on 20 January 2018 - 06:36 AM, said:

Thats all well and good, but who's realistically going to do it when you can just load previous save.

There was this thing in Mount and Blade, and I remember using it only in the very beginning when you dont have much to lose anyway.

Heh I used to play M&B with the 'realistic save' mode or whatever. I wanted to be all hardcore; that was brutal! I imagine I'm not the only person that enjoys a 'high stakes' game mode.

[IllCaesar]

Its going to be fairly linear and not particularly open-ended. It won't be, say, Mount and Blade. It'll be something more akin to the Mercenaries expansion of Mechwarrior 4. You have a set list of missions that you can mostly tackle in any order, some will lock each other out, but it will be mostly linear. The only reason why you don't think of it as linear is because you have a choice from one of three to six missions at any given time except for during the endgame.

I haven't quite been following the HBS Battletech game development but it'd be easier to employ something more truly open-ended there. The best we'll get in MW5 is some randomly generated missions that we can repeat, maybe infinitely, but the campaign will come to an end at some point that had been built to linearly.

[Blue Boutique]

Jonathan8883, on 20 January 2018 - 06:24 AM, said:

I didn't see a MW5 forum anywhere, sorry.

Traditionally, ejection has been "game over" in the MechWarrior games. Mission failed, you're dead. In MechWarrior 5, you're just a mercenary. There are rules of war, and you have rights as a POW.

Sorry, mercenaries don't get the same protection as house armies. If captured, you're treated as a pirate and punished accordingly.

[IllCaesar]

You know it just struck me how odd it is that we had a Transverse subforum opened up even though that was basically dead on announcement yet we don't have one for MW5 yet and its actually going to happen.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Blue Boutique, on 20 January 2018 - 11:29 PM, said:

Sorry, mercenaries don't get the same protection as house armies. If captured, you're treated as a pirate and punished accordingly.

It is known that successor states hire mercs who previously were employed against them, there are Ares Conventions regulating the warfare, there is each entity's reputation to uphold if they want to hire other mercs in future and etc.

So no, mercs are not treated as pirates.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

Sorry, mercenaries don't get the same protection as house armies. If captured, you're treated as a pirate and punished accordingly.

Mercenaries not under a contract with a House don't get those protections. Mercs that are, absolutely do. In fact in some ways mor so, as many a merc who found themselves hosed on a mission end up hired by the people who kicked their butts.

[MeiSooHaityu]

The BattleTech game will have something along those lines.

Essentially, failing a mission is not the end of the game. To save on repair/rearm costs, you might have to retreat from a mission without completing it, or you might have to eject a pilot to save the mech from getting chewed up even more in combat. Basically take actions to prevent a serious loss of money from running a mission. To help make it worth while to keep playing without reloading, missions can provide income for what objectives you were able to do (even if it wasn't the full payout). Also, pilots still gain experience from the combat as well.

In BattleTech, the only way to truly fail is to run out of money.

I could see a lot of this making it's way into MW5:Mercs. Partially completed missions for partial payout, ordering lance mates to eject to save a mech from being destroyed, etc... I'd imagine that just like BattleTech, you are running a Merc company with the sole goal of making money.

As a Mercenary, you aren't an idealist, you're not fighting for a cause, you are fighting for money. The game's failure state shouldn't be tied to an ejection or a failed mission, it should be tied to going broke.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 23 January 2018 - 08:04 AM.

[Jonathan8883]

MW2 Mercs had one mission where you could "fail" and keep going. I think that was the only one, though.

"Attention mercenary. This is the Dread Legion. Whatever the Combine is paying you, we'll double it. Just turn around and walk away."

Did we ever figure out what the Dread Legion found? I have always assumed a big cache of lostech weapons or something similar.

[BumbleBee]

It was a lostech memory core IIRC

Edited by BumbleBee, 23 January 2018 - 11:50 PM.

[kesmai]

My expectations on mw5 develop accordingly to the quality of the released footage.
Imho pgi is not known for fluff and thinking around corners.
So posts like this might help them.
Really sad to see that their development is not incorporating most people that might buy the game (aka forum).
Others have proven that community involvement can be done successfully.
Seems both pgi and a potential playerbase have an equal opinion of each other.
Who would have guessed?

[ice trey]

Back in 2009, when they announced the engine they were going to use, I was pretty excited since it was an FPS engine. I was really hoping that in Mechwarrior 3015, we were going to be able to eject from our mechs, only to have the game go from Simulator to FPS game, and having to make your way through the wilderness and/or urban sprawl without getting killed or captured, ducking behind trees and into buildings to avoid infantry, mechs, and tanks. I was hoping to have FPS missions where enemy marines have breached the dropship hull and you have to fight them off as a human being inside the dropship bays and narrow corridors.

But nearly ten years later, I'm a bit more jaded. PGI isn't the company to watch for innovation or enthralling gameplay. MW5 so far seems like it's shaping up to be a half-hearted attempt, putting all the emphasis on the fact that they're using the Unreal engine, rather than how they intend to use it. Hell, something made in the Source engine but beautifully made would be better than a half-asked attempt in the most advanced game engine, in my books.