37 replies to this topic

[Angus McFife VI]

These things are a nightmare to fight against. They peek over hills and creep behind walls with dissect your torsos with their 70+ alphastrikes, and then hide again. When an enemy team has them it's like wack-a-mole and extremely hard to deal with. Trying to peek back at them is suicide because they'll always outrade (and out range you), especially in community warfare where you only have IS mechs against them. You could torso twist but they still deal insane damage to the components they initially fire at (or skim across). I just don't know what to do against them. Yes, you could catch them out in the open but that's never in an option, especially since they stick with their team. I just feel like I can't continue playing without finding a solution for these things.

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 20 January 2018 - 12:13 PM.

[FupDup]

Broadly speaking, the two options are either have an extreme range sniper like ERPPC or ERLL trading with them from like 700-800+ meters (where their damage is much lower), or get up in their face for splat. If that can't be done then just try to focus on a specific hitbox (usually LT) whenever they peek out so that they have to play more cautiously and maybe call out the target so your team can focus on them.

There isn't really any kyptonite against them though, other than maybe using your own gigantic alpha strike build against them.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Basically the main counter to them is pushing them, as they have terrible sustained DPS, so anything outbrawls them. Though that's easier said than done, as you have to get through their team.

[InspectorG]

Push them, their DPS drops when they get hot and ERLLs arent great vs a decent light pilot.

[Lovas]

What Dakota just said. You can't afraid to get hit as an IS pilot. If you keep pulling back and hiding every time a hellbringer shoots you, you allow him to cool off and do it again and again and again.

[Angus McFife VI]

Ok thank you for all the feedback. I will shoot their left torso now but pushing as a team, yeah, not gonna happen in a pug.

[Y E O N N E]

Pulse lasers.

Dakota1000, on 20 January 2018 - 12:27 PM, said:

Basically the main counter to them is pushing them, as they have terrible sustained DPS, so anything outbrawls them. Though that's easier said than done, as you have to get through their team.

They actually have very good sustained DPS. Instead, they have large mandatory gaps between shots, so game that with something like pulse lasers.

Basically, try to bait them into shooting first and then hit them after.

As for shooting the left torso, the Heavy Larges are usually in the right torso. Those are the guns you really want to take out.

[Brizna]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 January 2018 - 01:10 PM, said:

Pulse lasers.

They actually have very good sustained DPS. Instead, they have large mandatory gaps between shots, so game that with something like pulse lasers.

Basically, try to bait them into shooting first and then hit them after.

As for shooting the left torso, the Heavy Larges are usually in the right torso. Those are the guns you really want to take out.

Saying HLL are the priority targets always is not quite right, if I am in a light and close to the HBR those HLL with their extreme burn times are the least of my concerns, ERMLs have a better damage/(burn time*heat) profile in that situation.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Dont LRM me please, on 20 January 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:

They peek over hills and creep behind walls with dissect your torsos with their 70+ alphastrikes, and then hide again.

1.Dont stand still
2.Twist your torso

HLL have about 1.4 second burn and its kinda hard to land it all on a single component if the target is moving.

[Y E O N N E]

Brizna, on 20 January 2018 - 01:40 PM, said:

Saying HLL are the priority targets always is not quite right, if I am in a light and close to the HBR those HLL with their extreme burn times are the least of my concerns, ERMLs have a better damage/(burn time*heat) profile in that situation.

Nope. The HLL are dealing 23.2 damage/sec during their burn where the cERML are dealing 22.4, before Skill Tree. With skill tree it's 25.8 and 24.9, respectively. The right side is also going to carry more DHS because that's where the armored arm is. And the head laser will still be there regardless of which side you take, so you need to decide whether you want him to have 41 alpha or 28 alpha when you are done.

But, you can and should use your situational judgement. Your own well-being isn't the only thing you should be concerned about.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 20 January 2018 - 01:54 PM.

[K O Z A K]

all that aside, if you're dropping against a 6+ top FP players and your whole team is skittles with "all ranges covered" mechs (like some drops you had today), you're basically screwed whether the enemy runs helbis or w/e else

dropping FP solo is always a high risk option, if you bump into an organized group you have to accept it for what it is

[Brizna]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 January 2018 - 01:52 PM, said:

Nope. The HLL are dealing 23.2 damage/sec during their burn where the cERML are dealing 22.4, before Skill Tree.

But the burn time of ERML and HLL is different, so the actual DPS during burn time is higher for the ERML, isn't it? Anyway neither of those two weapons is the right tool for fending off fast light mechs at short range, which really takes me to my next unrelated point, what's the best clan weapon for anti light warfare other than streaks which are good for that but suck at anything else, and the answer I guess is gauss + ERPPC.

[K O Z A K]

Brizna, on 20 January 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

But the burn time of ERML and HLL is different, so the actual DPS during burn time is higher for the ERML, isn't it? Anyway neither of those two weapons is the right tool for fending off fast light mechs at short range, which really takes me to my next unrelated point, what's the best clan weapon for anti light warfare other than streaks which are good for that but suck at anything else, and the answer I guess is gauss + ERPPC.

CMPL, the coming range/heat nerf won't do much to displace the mpl from the best clan brawling weapon spot

Heavy small lasers + MGs are also good on some mechs, but very short range

[Y E O N N E]

Brizna, on 20 January 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

But the burn time of ERML and HLL is different, so the actual DPS during burn time is higher for the ERML, isn't it? Anyway neither of those two weapons is the right tool for fending off fast light mechs at short range, which really takes me to my next unrelated point, what's the best clan weapon for anti light warfare other than streaks which are good for that but suck at anything else, and the answer I guess is gauss + ERPPC.

No, it isn't. A pair of HLL is going to do ever so slightly more damage during the same 1.25-1.125 seconds than four cERML do, those are the numbers I showed you.

As for the next question: cER PPCs, LB-20X, and cMPL in no particular order. Standard SRMs if you can reliably hit with them. Gauss, though I would say less so than cER PPC.

[Angus McFife VI]

Nema Nabojiv, on 20 January 2018 - 01:44 PM, said:

1.Dont stand still
2.Twist your torso

HLL have about 1.4 second burn and its kinda hard to land it all on a single component if the target is moving.

I'm not a ******* idiot, you can only do that when you know for a fact they're about to shoot or you are certain they are going to peek. Even then, they can tear your armor up when you twist. In my hunchback for example I twisted against one and he skimmed the laser across my entire body, portions of the armor were already dark orange (when I wasn't shot at before)

[ANOM O MECH]

Dont LRM me please, on 20 January 2018 - 12:13 PM, said:

These things are a nightmare to fight against. They peek over hills and creep behind walls with dissect your torsos with their 70+ alphastrikes, and then hide again. When an enemy team has them it's like wack-a-mole and extremely hard to deal with. Trying to peek back at them is suicide because they'll always outrade (and out range you), especially in community warfare where you only have IS mechs against them. You could torso twist but they still deal insane damage to the components they initially fire at (or skim across). I just don't know what to do against them. Yes, you could catch them out in the open but that's never in an option, especially since they stick with their team. I just feel like I can't continue playing without finding a solution for these things.

Just as an aside....

Hellbringers probably have one of the worst head hit boxes in the game.

It literally has a mirrored glowing finish to boot.

Always shoot at it's nogin. Worst you will do is core out the centre.

While results will vary from player to player, it seems that there are not many people actually trying to get head shots.

Knowing where the head is, is half of it. The other half is trying to shoot it.

You'll be amazed when you start connecting on them and wonder why you weren't trying to do it before.

[Jonathan8883]

I have one. I can get two alphas off, max, before overheating to shutdown. On hot maps, 1 alpha and a couple of follow up shots.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Yeonne Greene, on 20 January 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

No, it isn't. A pair of HLL is going to do ever so slightly more damage during the same 1.25-1.125 seconds than four cERML do, those are the numbers I showed you.

Oh I was confused for a moment, I forget people still run only 4 ERML instead of 6.

[FupDup]

Dakota1000, on 20 January 2018 - 05:31 PM, said:

Oh I was confused for a moment, I forget people still run only 4 ERML instead of 6.

That's because running 6 will require you to use the low arms and also run a lot hotter. IMO I feel more comfortable with a 64-point alpha that can be fired somewhat often compared to a 78-point alpha that has to wait considerably longer.

[Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain]

Dont LRM me please, on 20 January 2018 - 02:38 PM, said:

I'm not a ******* idiot, you can only do that when you know for a fact they're about to shoot or you are certain they are going to peek. Even then, they can tear your armor up when you twist. In my hunchback for example I twisted against one and he skimmed the laser across my entire body, portions of the armor were already dark orange (when I wasn't shot at before)

If this is happening, chances are you are being shot by 2-3 people at a time. Trading when you are the only one on your team trading can be challenging as usually there are 2-3 people trading back at you, if you're facing half way decent players. This is the advantage of running with a group of like minded players. They usually have similar builds and play styles to your own. When you solo drop, you are playing the lotto and may end up with players running builds all over the spectrum. It makes coordinating that much harder when you're set up for laser vomit, but the two guys next to you are srm brawlers, and the 3 behind you are LRMs or ERLL.