165 replies to this topic

[InvictusLee]

Deathlike, on 20 January 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

The bad taste is whatever our balance overlord is eating.

I'm pretty sure it's a boatload of potato Freedom Fries and mashed taters. The latter tastes great with chives.

man..m dont make me hungry xD.

[ANOM O MECH]

November11th, on 20 January 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

Bro. I didnt join DS until recently, when i joined up with bacon. I also dont really care for FP either. If you wanna talk **** about Kdr, I'd rather we go head to head. Both if us of the same team. The guy who scores the most kills or highest dmg in two out of three matches wins.

I have been on the same team as you many times.

It's why I know that you are a potato and the current .22 kdr reflects what you and your unit are despised for, which is avoiding fighting and winning as cheaply as possible.

If you however want to group up, I will be on Comstar later with my unit (BCMC) and if we have room it would be a pleasure to drop with you, not out of who will do better, but to show you a different way.

Feno has been coming by lately and have enjoyed his company. He seems to embraced our philosophy a bit and I would welcome the chance to convert another.

[InvictusLee]

tker 669, on 20 January 2018 - 02:45 PM, said:

I have been on the same team as you many times.

It's why I know that you are a potato and the current .22 kdr reflects what you and your unit are despised for, which is avoiding fighting and winning as cheaply as possible.

If you however want to group up, I will be on Comstar later with my unit (BCMC) and if we have room it would be a pleasure to drop with you, not out of who will do better, but to show you a different way.

Feno has been coming by lately and have enjoyed his company. He seems to embraced our philosophy a bit and I would welcome the chance to convert another.

sure

[Water Bear]

What seems to be discounted in this discussion is the reason professional competitive players would be a better source of balance advice in the first place: They want the game to be fair.

Your average player does not. Your average player may in fact prefer to pay for an unfair advantage. Go figure.

Yes, competitive players absolutely have bias, especially if they have chosen to stick to only one choice in a game, but in general, what they want is a fair fight - to the death. Not always, but more generally than your average schmuck.

[InvictusLee]

Water Bear, on 20 January 2018 - 02:49 PM, said:

What seems to be discounted in this discussion is the reason professional competitive players would be a better source of balance advice in the first place: They want the game to be fair.

Your average player does not. Your average player may in fact prefer to pay for an unfair advantage. Go figure.

Yes, competitive players absolutely have bias, especially if they have chosen to stick to only one choice in a game, but in general, what they want is a fair fight - to the death. Not always, but more generally than your average schmuck.

Now that is an eloquent way of looking at things!

[Fleeb the Mad]

Water Bear, on 20 January 2018 - 02:49 PM, said:

What seems to be discounted in this discussion is the reason professional competitive players would be a better source of balance advice in the first place: They want the game to be fair.

Your average player does not. Your average player may in fact prefer to pay for an unfair advantage. Go figure.

Yes, competitive players absolutely have bias, especially if they have chosen to stick to only one choice in a game, but in general, what they want is a fair fight - to the death. Not always, but more generally than your average schmuck.

I'm a little curious what you'd base that on. I would've said the opposite, given that competitive people by definition tend to be focused on personal performance objectives and winning to a much greater extent than your average person.

I'd say if you were throwing around terms like paying for advantage, you're looking for a tryhard that isn't actually any better than the average. Your actual average joe generally just wants to have fun in whatever form that manifests itself in. I wouldn't be so charitable with the intent of competitive folks, not with how often I see certain units running Deathstrikes over and over in the group queue.

Not going to discount that competitive players can identify balance problems, but you simply can't listen to feedback from only one segment of the player base. Each one will attempt to drive the gameplay towards what they like best and they don't all jive with each other. Some will resist change that goes against their play style and that happens at every level.

[MischiefSC]

That 0.35 or heat reduction on Light Gauss. Boy, that's going to change up the meta.

[Y E O N N E]

MischiefSC, on 20 January 2018 - 04:37 PM, said:

That 0.35 or heat reduction on Light Gauss. Boy, that's going to change up the meta.

It did get the rapid-fire change I was asking for. I'm gonna be playing with it a lot to see how it does.

[Asym]

As we approach Solaris, there's gonna be a lot more changes.... Solaris is going to severaly challenge this community..... That bad taste is from PGI using the wrong ingrediants to make a FPS Arena potato stew....... Yuk....

[Jingseng]

Hmm.

And if you applied MLB to little league (such as regulation distances, field dimensions) no kids are ever going to play little league ever.

Which means no one to join the mlb.

Dig?

Translating back, applying comp play to everyone else drives everyone else away.

That's why you keep little league and mlb separate. As you do mutatis mutandis in all other sports.

Speaking of which, why wouldn't you let the best player in a sport set the rules for that sport?

Maybe because their perspective isn't shared by the overwhelming majority of the players? Maybe because it doesn't necessarily make for an interesting game to watch or play? Maybe because the result is rules heavily skewed for the top skilled players?

[Y E O N N E]

Good thing comp players have a diverse set of views all on their own, then.

[adamts01]

Water Bear, on 20 January 2018 - 02:49 PM, said:

What seems to be discounted in this discussion is the reason professional competitive players would be a better source of balance advice in the first place: They want the game to be fair.

That is true, but they often have a very biased view on what gameplay should be like. I'd prefer more simulator and less e-sports, as competition players they have the exact opposite position.

Take jump jets for a single example. Pop-tarting is a staple in comp, and they want to keep it. I say nerf the hell out of accuracy while jumping and falling, that way we could finally crank up jump jet function without entering another pop-tart meta. We've never had good jump jets, and that's the only way to get them.

Consider LRMs. For the most part, I hear the comp scene saying they want more direct fire, but I'd rather have better indirect fire. I'd be happy with a LRM boat hidden in some corner of the map raining death with a scout 2k away. Similar to how you can direct gunship fire from 5k away in Arma.

Just something to keep in mind.

[justcallme A S H]

The only real issue with this patch is nerfing cMPL because it became so popular because of the cSPL nerf.

If cSPL damage was upped by 1.
IS SPL damage was upped by 2.

That would've been the better outcome here and actually restoring some functionality to lights and brawlers. Especially after the SRM spread nerfs a few months back

Then leave cMPL alone as it would no longer be used anywhere near as much. It's not popular because it's overpowered it's popular because everything else is under powered.

The actual heat gen node nerf, despite a number of people freaking out about it - is actually so minor it's really not going to be impactful in the Clan Laser Vom / Trading meta. Some builds all I am doing is taking out a TC and adding another cDHS - And I'm then better off overall.

Vxheous, on 20 January 2018 - 02:04 PM, said:

But but....Clan Wolf, where the real clanners reside only have a 0.83 W/L, every IS faction beats them.

Well we ALL know why that is...

Edited by justcallme A S H, 20 January 2018 - 09:06 PM.

[Khobai]

LT. HARDCASE, on 20 January 2018 - 01:45 PM, said:

I'm 100% fine if they only ever listen to comp players. Who understands the game better than them?

hope thats sarcasm or I liked your post for no reason

and the problem with comp players is they only understand what works best to win. because winning for them is fun.

they dont understand how to make the game fun if youre not a sociopath that only cares about winning.

Quote

That 0.35 or heat reduction on Light Gauss. Boy, that's going to change up the meta.

Quote

It did get the rapid-fire change I was asking for. I'm gonna be playing with it a lot to see how it does.

not what it needed though. theres still much better rapid fire ballistics for long range.

light gauss needed 10 damage not rapid fire. theyre trying to make it some weird gauss/autocannon hybrid instead of making it a proper gauss.

justcallme A S H, on 20 January 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

The only real issue with this patch is nerfing cMPL because it became so popular because of the cSPL nerf.

I dont have a problem with the range nerf. Because med pulse lasers should be mostly <400m brawling weapons. But they shouldve lowered the heat or increased the damage to compensate for the lower range.

Edited by Khobai, 20 January 2018 - 10:05 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 20 January 2018 - 09:45 PM, said:

hope thats sarcasm or I liked your post for no reason

and the problem with comp players is they only understand what works best to win. because winning for them is fun.

they dont understand how to make the game fun if youre not a sociopath that only cares about winning.

That is absolute garbage.

Many top level players are calling for MORE quirks, MORE buffs to mechs and so on to actually make them more interesting/fun.

EG:.
- Locust 1V as a prime example. The 1 LPL was enjoyed by many.
- Overall lots of lights have lost their light mech feel - again most top level players are asking to bring this back into the game to actually make it fun to run a light.

[Khobai]

Quote

Many top level players are calling for MORE quirks, MORE buffs to mechs and so on to actually make them more interesting/fun.

quirks are part of the problem. quirks should never have been used to try and balance IS vs clan tech.

because when you use quirks to balance the techbases it means clan mechs cant have quirks.

the two techbases need to be balanced without quirks. that way both IS and clan mechs can have equal amounts of quirks.

[YueFei]

Khobai, on 20 January 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:

quirks are part of the problem. quirks should never have been used to try and balance IS vs clan tech.

because when you use quirks to balance the techbases it means clan mechs cant have quirks.

the two techbases need to be balanced without quirks. that way both IS and clan mechs can have equal amounts of quirks.

This is a false dichotomy.

There's no reason why you can't give certain Clan mechs quirks just because you happened to give Inner Sphere mechs quirks.

Forget Clan vs IS tech balance for a moment, and just focus on mech to mech balance. Some mechs are badly in need of some kind of help, whether they are Clan or IS mechs. Since mech mass and geometry are pretty much immutable (given PGI's resources, don't expect major rescalings), that leaves hardpoints, engine limits, and quirks on the table for improving the underperformers.

And hardpoints / engine limits alone aren't gonna cut the cheese.

[Khobai]

Quote

There's no reason why you can't give certain Clan mechs quirks just because you happened to give Inner Sphere mechs quirks

then why do a lot of clan mechs not have any quirks

oh because im right.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 20 January 2018 - 10:28 PM, said:

then why do a lot of clan mechs not have any quirks

Because our Balancing Overlord™ is incredibly squeamish and hesitant when it comes to doing anything.

[Mystere]

FupDup, on 20 January 2018 - 10:34 PM, said:

Because our Balancing Overlord™ is incredibly squeamish and hesitant when it comes to doing anything.

Never-ending balancing changes, some already having already gone full circle many times over, seem to belie your statement.

Edited by Mystere, 20 January 2018 - 10:37 PM.