56 replies to this topic

[BenAran]

So, I did this for mechs, it escalated into the typical "THE UZIEL IS THE BEST MEDIUM EVA BECAUSE ITS MORE AGILE" and now I will just ask the same question, but for weapons.
I am fully aware that I will be getting the same result.

My nominee:
RAC2.
Half the DPS of the RAC5 (Which is already not all that good), same tonnage as an AC5, bad dps, comparatively high heat.
I think the worst part is that one of its only buffs was that its ghost heat cap was increased to 3.
Like... You take two RAC5, you get 20 tons of 20 DPS (roughly), but with 3 RAC2, you get 15 DPS for 24 tons and thats not even accounting for the higher ammo and slot expenditures.
Out of all the weapons in the game, the RAC2 is definitely the worst in my opinion, closely followed by the er micro and micro pulse.
But anyway, discuss away.

[Jonathan8883]

Hey, the ER Micro has a space on my Hunchback IIC with its 0.25/ton weight.

I saw the thread title and thought "RAC2" as well. It's sad that PGI is never going to rebalance ballistic tonnage.

[Bombast]

With the recent elevation of the LGR from garbage to usable but not great, I think micros are now the bottom of the trash heap.

[BenAran]

Jonathan8883, on 22 January 2018 - 05:45 AM, said:

Hey, the ER Micro has a space on my Hunchback IIC with its 0.25/ton weight.

I saw the thread title and thought "RAC2" as well. It's sad that PGI is never going to rebalance ballistic tonnage.

I have to say:
Until the piranha comes, nothing can utilize micros sufficiently.
I tried it on the viper and it just sucks.
You can fit 9 of them and you think "Oh I am firing 9 lasers at once, so much damage!" Until you see you arent even breaking 20.

Bombast, on 22 January 2018 - 05:46 AM, said:

With the recent elevation of the LGR from garbage to usable but not great, I think micros are now the bottom of the trash heap.

I totally forgot about LGR.
the AC10 with less damage.
But yeah, I am looking forward to the new uses of the LGR, now that it is really damn spammy. Although I wish it had instead have its charge limit removed, since something like 4 LGR could make for a convincing sniper loadout.

[El Bandito]

BenAran, on 22 January 2018 - 05:23 AM, said:

So, I did this for mechs, it escalated into the typical "THE UZIEL IS THE BEST MEDIUM EVA BECAUSE ITS MORE AGILE" and now I will just ask the same question, but for weapons.
I am fully aware that I will be getting the same result.

My nominee:
RAC2.

Watch as this thread devolves into RAC2 Urbie OP.

[Asym]

LRM's. At one point, weapons that did change the battlespace.... Now, just an after-thought as we slide into the elimination of all non-LOS weapons.

[Bud Crue]

When viewed from the perspective of a single mech:

IS SL and SPL, RAC2, LRMS I think all can make a reasonable claim.
And to cut off the really pedantic crowd: TAG, NARC and AMS all have crap weapon performance by themselves as well (yes, they are classified as weapons in this game).

[BEST EGG]

Asym, on 22 January 2018 - 07:49 AM, said:

LRM's. At one point, weapons that did change the battlespace.... Now, just an after-thought as we slide into the elimination of all non-LOS weapons.

You've a recent KDR of roughly half, and rank in the bottom 25% of players. Do I smell a salty LRM boater bad?

LRMs are fine and most definitely have a place in the game.

[Metus regem]

I'd have to say LRM's are at the bottom... though the RAC/2 isn't far behind.

The reason why I still consider LRM's the worst of the worst, is what they rely on to be viable. They need your target to not have any situational awareness. It is the only weapon system with so many hard counters built into the game:

ECM
AMS
LAMS
Terrain
Minimum range
Good piloting

Count them, that is 6 hard counters to one weapon system, that's three times the hard counters of direct fire weapon systems!

That being said, LRM's are useful for suppression or flushing someone from cover, if I can mount even a LRM/5 or 10 on a mech I usually take one with a ton of ammo, just to give me something to do as I close the gap with a slower mech, but as a primary weapon system, no thanks.

[BEST EGG]

Metus regem, on 22 January 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

The reason why I still consider LRM's the worst of the worst, is what they rely on to be viable. They need your target to not have any situational awareness. It is the only weapon system with so many hard counters built into the game:

ECM
AMS
LAMS
Terrain
Minimum range
Good piloting

Count them, that is 6 hard counters to one weapon system, that's three times the hard counters of direct fire weapon systems!

AMS and L-AMS are the same thing, it is dishonest to seperate them. They also do not prevent all LRM damage in most cases, and a lot of mechs do not have AMS.

ECM has its own counters - TAG, ECM in counter mode, etc.

Minimum range? Clan LRMs would like a chat. Besides, how many matches is it impossible for a LRM boat to stay outside 180m from the enemy for the majority of it? Hint: virtually none.

Terrain and good piloting are the same thing. Besides, how dare LRMs have a skill based counterplay

[Metus regem]

BEST EGG, on 22 January 2018 - 08:15 AM, said:

AMS and L-AMS are the same thing, it is dishonest to seperate them. They also do not prevent all LRM damage in most cases, and a lot of mechs do not have AMS.

ECM has its own counters - TAG, ECM in counter mode, etc.

Minimum range? Clan LRMs would like a chat. Besides, how many matches is it impossible for a LRM boat to stay outside 180m from the enemy for the majority of it? Hint: virtually none.

Terrain and good piloting are the same thing. Besides, how dare LRMs have a skill based counterplay

I put AMS and LAMS as two different weapon systems that do the same job, my point being that one is ammo dependent, the other is heat dependent. They are similar, but not the same.

Most mechs can pack at least one AMS slot, it is pilot choice to not mount one, even one can remove a LRM/5 (and most of a cLRM/10) from the game... as it is, AMS is active damage reduction vs. all missile types.

cLRM's do have a minimum range in MWO, try using them below 120, they do between 0 and full damage, as they ramp up closer to that 120m.

As for terrain and piloting, again, not the same thing. Good piloting can be not presenting yourself as a target for LRM's or positioning yourself so that you can force someone else to become ablative cover. Terrain on the other hand is a fixed asset that does not move.

[El Bandito]

Metus regem, on 22 January 2018 - 08:26 AM, said:

cLRM's do have a minimum range in MWO, try using them below 120, they do between 0 and full damage, as they ramp up closer to that 120m.

CLRM minimum range is 180 meters. ATM min range is 120 meters.

[Metus regem]

El Bandito, on 22 January 2018 - 09:33 AM, said:

CLRM minimum range is 180 meters. ATM min range is 120 meters.

My bad, I keep forgetting that it's 180m for the cLRM... still minimum range is minimum range...

[Khobai]

Quote

CLRM minimum range is 180 meters. ATM min range is 120 meters.

CLRM can do damage under 120m though while ATMs cant

its really dumb that CLRMs actually outdamage ATMs under 120m

they really need to fix ATMs so they have damage dropoff under 120m

[InvictusLee]

I vote both RACs. They dont live up to their mathmatical potential where as UACs kick the snot out of them.

[Mystere]

BEST EGG, on 22 January 2018 - 08:04 AM, said:

You've a recent KDR of roughly half, and rank in the bottom 25% of players. Do I smell a salty LRM boater bad?

LRMs are fine and most definitely have a place in the game.

How many LRMs were used by the finalists in the MWOWC?

[Bombast]

Mystere, on 22 January 2018 - 09:58 AM, said:

How many LRMs were used by the finalists in the MWOWC?

12? 12 seems like an important MWOWC number for some reason...

[Asym]

BEST EGG, on 22 January 2018 - 08:04 AM, said:

You've a recent KDR of roughly half, and rank in the bottom 25% of players. Do I smell a salty LRM boater bad?

LRMs are fine and most definitely have a place in the game.

No..... Seriously No.... I rarely use LRM's because many of the better players have been trying to get me to not be a Super Spud Grand Master Level Potato, aye-up !

I'm in the bottom 25% because I'm not serious about MWO and play for fun. And, I'm not playing very much anymore since most of the team I am on is in another game most nights...... My stats will continue to drop and at some point, not even show up because I only play events for MC and nothing else.

[HauptmanT]

If you people think LRMs are bad, you must not know how to LURM.

LRMs have so many counters because of how effective they are. Without the counters, every mech would be boating them.

They are the only weapon that allows you to get free damage, you can fire from complete cover and recieve no counter fire. They can fire fast and often, rarely unless I purposfully boat over ghost heat, will I ever have heat issues. My normal heavy LRM loadout is 4 X LRM 15. Ghost heat galore, but switch to chain fire for sustained rain. Sure the damage is spread, but no other weapon can maintain huge numbers like the LRM for such little weight. a 60 point alpha every 4 seconds is no joke.

Edited by HauptmanT, 22 January 2018 - 11:19 AM.

[Bombast]

And now we have a LRM thread.

Why can't we have nice things?