54 replies to this topic

[TKG]

Pfuscher1, on 24 January 2018 - 11:07 AM, said:

A single 20 Tons Piranha has as much weapon hardpoints as 210 Tons of Cataphracts.
Sounds wrong? Is wrong.

They are ruining the gameplay even without skills. In a week it will be even worse.
This mech will be very hard to balance.

It is clear you may not know much about the 'mech your maligning, you do realize that PGI accurately represented the Piranha right? The one we got is almost exactly what is portrayed in the 3058 TRO, with the exceptions that the real one was faster and had less armor in stock configuration.

As for game play the piranha is balanced by the simple fact it's rather fragile, its primary existence is to hit and never be hit. Even with maximized armor with full survival tree it's still armored with cheap aluminum foil. Due to this any reasonable torso damage takes out half it's weapons. Literally machine guns are about the only thing it can take direct repeated hits from which makes it a challenging mech to pilot because it tests your skills for maneuvering and assessing where to be.

I should note that skills actually don't much compensate for the frailty of the mech, speed tweak only gets it to 156, survival tree only at most +3 in the arms, +4 in the legs, +4/+1 in the torsoes and, +3 on the head this is effectively of very little advantage since it's more different fragile. If you drove a spider successfully then you'll do fine in a piranha since a lot of the same tactics apply.

[Pfuscher1]

I did realize that and it's cool that they correctly portrayed it.
But it also presents horrible gameplay with it. Sometimes it's hard to bring something correctly into a pc game.
I'm sure they will change the Prianha one day. Rather sooner than later.

For example the Kodiak. A lot of owners said it's perfectly balanced ( they wanted their op mech not nerfed)
And a lot of other people said it's op.

We had death machines with 4 xuac10 super fire, a Spirit bear accelerating like a viper and heavy structure quirks.
When people had their money worth, it got nerfed to a satisfying balance. No more structure, ghost heat, slow as ****.

[Shadey99]

Pfuscher1, on 27 January 2018 - 11:18 AM, said:

I did realize that and it's cool that they correctly portrayed it.
But it also presents horrible gameplay with it. Sometimes it's hard to bring something correctly into a pc game.
I'm sure they will change the Prianha one day. Rather sooner than later.

I'm trying hard not to laugh at the thought the Piranha is in any sense 'OP'. I've been working way to much to get real time into mine, but even so... The Piranha is a highly situational mech. With very short range builds (if you use the hard points anyways) and no jump jets so it's not as agile as some other lights. Heck MGs are even incredibly situational. I had a match in a 12 MG Piranha where I spent 30 seconds shooting the open red leg on a Jenner and I could not finish it off. On the other hand if I have an exposed part enemies with MGs tend to rip it off in a eye blink. The massive laser builds aren't any better as the ghost heat kicks in way to soon. I cooked myself more than once from zero heat by really needing to fire the next part of the lasers quicker than the ghost heat limit and even with microlasers a dozen lasers is stupidly hot with ghost heat. I scaled down the big laser builds to 10, but it feels super weak and even without hitting ghost heat is stupidly hot with 3 heat sinks not in the engine.

Also that window... God that is awful... I want to play in 3rd person, just because I have zero side vision in cockpit view. On an Ultrawide Monitor to make it worse. For me the Piranha cockpit is 1/3rd of my screen. So many times I miss stuff because it's hidden by cockpit stuff.

Edited by Shadey99, 29 January 2018 - 02:28 AM.

[TKG]

Pfuscher1, on 27 January 2018 - 11:18 AM, said:

But it also presents horrible gameplay with it.

Wrong, it's a mech like any other; with several rather obvious flaws. I suspect you simply dislike it and probably haven't driven it because if you had, you would not be complaining about the things that you are.

Shadey99, on 27 January 2018 - 06:15 PM, said:

I'm trying hard to laugh at the thought the Piranha is in any sense 'OP'. I've been working way to much to get real time into mine, but even so... The Piranha is a highly situational mech. With very short range builds (if you use the hard points anyways) and no jump jets so it's not as agile as some other lights. Heck MGs are even incredibly situational. I had a match in a 12 MG Piranha where I spent 30 seconds shooting the open red leg on a Jenner and I could not finish it off. On the other hand if I have an exposed part enemies with MGs tend to rip it off in a eye blink. The massive laser builds aren't any better as the ghost heat kicks in way to soon. I cooked myself more than once from zero heat by really needing to fire the next part of the lasers quicker than the ghost heat limit and even with microlasers a dozen lasers is stupidly hot with ghost heat. I scaled down the big laser builds to 10, but it feels super weak and even without hitting ghost heat is stupidly hot with 3 heat sinks not in the engine.

Also that window... God that is awful... I want to play in 3rd person, just because I have zero side vision in cockpit view. On an Ultrawide Monitor to make it worse. For me the Piranha cockpit is 1/3rd of my screen. So many times I miss stuff because it's hidden by cockpit stuff.

I agree with all of the above, anyone who thinks the piranha is op probably has not driven one. Those cockpit windows are like having blinders on, it's literally "peripheral vision? whats that?!" all the darn time. I had to get very creative with the energy models and still have no viable solution for the 4x AMS model.

[Zookeeper Dan]

Definitely agree on the cockpit window! I didn't think they could make you miss the visibility from inside a ShadowHawk!

I'm not close to skilling mine, but points in durability and manuverability don't seem nearly as important as heat management, radar deprivation, cooldown, and ammo. I'd probably go with consumables after those.

The Piranha is a fast glass cannon that is supposed to prey on backs and open components. It shouldn't last long in a fire fight.

[Yumoshiri]

Piranha builds:

P1: 12 MG + laser of choice. If you're a troll, you can go with LMG.
P2 or P3: 10 or 12 er small
P2 or P3: 14 or 15 ER Micro
Alternatively: Micro pulse or HSL
HSL is too hot to be fun, micropulse seems too heavy to be effective enough.

PA: i dunno, i feel i must use the 4x AMS, but it's an underwhelming mech. currently 8 LMG + 2x LAMS + 2 AMS
PB: 4x HML (+ 4x LMG) or skip MG for HS
PB: 4x Flamers + 4x HMG+ 2x micropulse

PB also seems underwhelming having far less weapon hardpoints, but actually performs pretty ok.

Cipher: Mix and Match. Potentially the best piranha as it can open up armor, and is fairly cool too. just make sure that your weapons serve the same purpose.

[TKG]

Just a thought on Piranha buildd;

First off keep in mind an actual combat build will be different than the damage oriented one used in the mech challenge or any damage oriented event. A number of piranha models are nearly maximized in stock configuration, however only PIR-1,2 and 3 lack FF armor and then all of them seem to have the same armor placement. So of course I armored up everything and reduced it on the head (which is a TINY target) as a buffer for getting roughly 7 tons out of all piranha models. That 7 tons created a dilemma of design, since the piranha isn't intended as a heavy hitter, but rather a hit and run specialist. I tested models with AC/2's, large lasers, PPCs and even a large pulse laser and found they were not effective enough. Not to say that a player could not make them work, but since the piranha in all forms cannot carry ECM and doesn't have MASC, to use these weapons to their fullest you'd need BAP and/or a targeting computer both of which cost more tonnage that you simply do not have to spare.

In the worst case you have the A model with it's 4 AMS and it's two half-ton allotments of ammo. To make the A more practical you either need to take off two AMS, or add a ton of ammo. The former option opens the door for a normal BAP and then you have 4 tons for weapons. The latter option leaves you three tons one of which could go to a BAP, and the armament could possibly be a HML and small or micro lasers. Still the A model is the most extreme of the lot it demonstrates the issues with the design nicely in that this isn't the mech for big weapons since there is limited space and you don't want to armor it less or make it any slower. However most of the models can use the arms as torso shields and shave a point or two for other locations. The torso-centric weapons on most of the Piranha mechs makes this very viable.

In terms of the skill tree, the survival tree makes you only slightly more durable, but honestly between being protected by 5mm of tinfoil and being protected by 8mm of tinfoil I'm going to obviously go for the 8mm. Making use of the speed tweaks will get you roughly +10kph which doesn't seem like much until that pesky locust or jenner thinks they can flat out run you. I always go for the speed cap perks and then from firepower whatever skills are directly relevant to my weapons. The the only variation to all that is to make sure the A model gets the AMS skills

[DONTOR]

Now that I know exactly how to play it I'm averaging 405 damage a game and 3 kills, usually 2 solo or MDD kills, you dont have to play to clean up (tho it does that quite well also).

What you should be doing EVERY single game that you play with this mech is spending the first 2-4 minutes wide flanking the enemy team. Do not get noticed! and u can often pick off their last 2 mechs within 15 seconds without their team realizing you are there. it works almost every time ive tried it, with only 1 failure coming to mind.

Obviously the 12 MGs (insert laser choice here) is the best one vaporising rear CTs in seconds it took me 1.5-2 seconds to core a black jack that never even flinched before it died, and cored an atlas in probably 6 seconds, tho he did try and not die so pathetically...

Also dont be afraid to leg lights and mediums in a duel it has worked everytime i had to engage this way.

[Squiggy McPew]

Ok bought the cipher pack and other than the mg spam fits I'm really digging a 6 hml fit. You can alpha them then retreat to cool since its one perk is a cooling perk and with skills and four double sinks you shed heat rapidly even on caustic. Fairly poor solo vs other lights due to the 1.3 second laser duration but its 60 points of alpha are devastating to anything you can keep it focused on especially vs smokers at mid range. On a cold map or map with water you can keep up a fairly decent rate of fire if you stagger them.

[TooDumbToQuit]

I'm liking an ERLL and some of the MGs.

With its speed, it is a great poker. And I've soloed a Marauder II doing the Circle Of Death for the first time.

Last night I even punked two Wolfhounds in the same game with my Flamer version. That is their weakness. A 3rd, a Linebacker I killed when he overheated and blew up. (stop stealing my kills!)

I have two/three of them with all White camo and I wait till I have 7-8 votes towards a snow map.

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 07 February 2018 - 04:16 AM.

[Squiggy McPew]

The hml fit is fun but now my new love for the ciper is this. Still 30 points of laser damage but 6 mg for all the crits. This one has no issues vs other lights.

CIPHER

[Laser Kiwi]

it was terrible at first now that all the terrible pilots have stopped using it the potential is high.

[The6thMessenger]

3x HSL + 12 MG = Chainsaw

[Squiggy McPew]

Laser Kiwi, on 12 February 2018 - 12:29 AM, said:

it was terrible at first now that all the terrible pilots have stopped using it the potential is high.

Yep the few piranha pilots I see now are quite competent and do well especially if they pack up with another light.

I love my cipher.

[STFU Carl]

I love this little fish, its been the most fun I've had in a light since I discovered lights. Granted these things are paper thin and they give very hit and miss games I have had a game that was 700 dmg 4 kills 8 assists and a game where a single heavy guass round just ended me at 0 dmg. Regardless this mech brings me the one thing I want out of this game and that is FUN remember FUN guys?

Anyways here is my favourite Pirana build on the PIR-3.
XL180
4 HML

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5be0731435e578a

Edited by STFU Carl, 19 February 2018 - 12:31 AM.

[Tier5ForLife]

[Tier5ForLife]

120mm, on 12 February 2018 - 12:06 AM, said:

The hml fit is fun but now my new love for the ciper is this. Still 30 points of laser damage but 6 mg for all the crits. This one has no issues vs other lights.

CIPHER

I like this idea, thanks. I'm doing the semi-same thing but using 3 ERMLs. I will try it.

[Squiggy McPew]

LikeUntoBuddha, on 21 February 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

I like this idea, thanks. I'm doing the semi-same thing but using 3 ERMLs. I will try it.

I changed it a bit. Went down to an xl170 and added another half ton mg ammo and 2 heavy smalls. The heavy mediums are for early in the game when you don't want to get near fresh mechs using the 310 optimal to do some mid range sniping and support. When its later in the game and time to close in on the smokers for critmas you can lead in with the 3 hml then continuously fire the mg and small heavies.

[TKG]

120mm, on 14 February 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

Yep the few piranha pilots I see now are quite competent and do well especially if they pack up with another light.

I am personally very glad that the difficulties of the mech produced a washout rate that high so quickly. It was getting annoying trying to do hard maneuvers at 160 kph only to stumble over folks joyriding in the thing.

[TKG]

BTW, someone earlier asked what use a piranha is when there's no infantry, the answer has come with the new mech update, it will be eating fleas all day long.