41 replies to this topic

[Burke IV]

So i was looking at the sun spider, intersting looking mech. I checked out the builds and i came across the sunspider c. Perhaps im missing something, but isnt that amech thats capable of standing behind a hill and firing off 10 alphas before its entirely spent? What use is that? When so much LRM hate is directed towards people who "stand at the back" and do nothing but press fire. Wouldnt it have been so much more sensible to load the SNS C with 4x ALRM10 and 2xALRM15 in the arms and allow the mech an energy headslot so it was capable of tagging. This would be the exact same 24 tons of weapons as the current build. Lower its heatsinks down to 13 (or less!) and use that space to add a couple more tons of ammo.

This would create a mech that was capable of running much closer to the front, it would still be a tad ammo light but with careful use it can carry a full matches worth. As it stands i cant see any reason to take a the SNS over the novacat cause back shooting LRMs dont really care about speed. The changes i have suggested would allows the SNS to bring something a little more unique to the battle and honestly, give the SNS C some reason to exist. If the headslot is an issue put it somewhere else (the head is really where it should go), but dont create a mech that can only be played in the most hated style.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Its just a stock build, most of them don't make any sense. Someone could buy it and run as a 70 ton 6 ASRM6 boat rather than relying on the Mad Dog for that role. Its also an omnimech so someone could go with a ballistic mixed with 4 ASRM6s.

[Bombast]

I believe the PGI originals are made to 'Battletech spec' so they can be added to unit tables stock. MWO spec builds are usually not ideal for BT.

[Burke IV]

I looked at that build, you cant fill its weight out with srms. And why would you when you can just take the novacat and have a couple energy slots.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Burke IV, on 25 January 2018 - 06:46 AM, said:

I looked at that build, you cant fill its weight out with srms. And why would you when you can just take the novacat and have a couple energy slots.

Because 81>64. That's also why I said SRMs+Ballistic.

[Burke IV]

Bombast, on 25 January 2018 - 06:44 AM, said:

I believe the PGI originals are made to 'Battletech spec' so they can be added to unit tables stock. MWO spec builds are usually not ideal for BT.

That might explain why it cant have one more slot tbh. Didnt think of that.

[El Bandito]

Sunspider is gonna be a good 70 tonner with high mounts, much more versatile than the Summoner. I definitely recommend it to anyone looking for a new Clan Heavy. Will open up some new drop deck configs in FP, as well.

[Metus regem]

Bombast, on 25 January 2018 - 06:44 AM, said:

I believe the PGI originals are made to 'Battletech spec' so they can be added to unit tables stock. MWO spec builds are usually not ideal for BT.

rather often they are reduced to salvage in TT, and TT builds often beat them... But that's due to factors that MWO lacks, like TAC's.... and a few other things.

[Koniving]

Burke IV, on 25 January 2018 - 06:32 AM, said:

So i was looking at the sun spider, intersting looking mech. I checked out the builds and i came across the sunspider c. Perhaps im missing something, but isnt that amech thats capable of standing behind a hill and firing off 10 alphas before its entirely spent? What use is that? When so much LRM hate is directed towards people who "stand at the back" and do nothing but press fire. Wouldnt it have been so much more sensible to load the SNS C with 4x ALRM10 and 2xALRM15 in the arms and allow the mech an energy headslot so it was capable of tagging. This would be the exact same 24 tons of weapons as the current build. Lower its heatsinks down to 13 (or less!) and use that space to add a couple more tons of ammo.

This would create a mech that was capable of running much closer to the front, it would still be a tad ammo light but with careful use it can carry a full matches worth. As it stands i cant see any reason to take a the SNS over the novacat cause back shooting LRMs dont really care about speed. The changes i have suggested would allows the SNS to bring something a little more unique to the battle and honestly, give the SNS C some reason to exist. If the headslot is an issue put it somewhere else (the head is really where it should go), but dont create a mech that can only be played in the most hated style.

The SunSpider may have been made up for MWO, but in order for it to achieve canon status, it needs to work well in the tabletop. Tabletop mechs do not carry boatloads of ammunition; they'd explode in just one or two hits. They don't need as much ammunition, since all ammo is twice as effective in tabletop (no boatloads of ******** armor and structure to deal with and somehow, mechs in tabletop are better damage sponges even with sub-optimal armor). While a ton of ammunition might just be a single alpha for this mech (since 120 is the actual ammo for LRMs in Battletech, not 180), it would almost instantly kill anything it actually hit in Battletech.

That actually would make it more interesting in tabletop, as it would then need logistical support and a supply line to be maintained in a prolonged fight.

PGI wasn't going for MWO builds with these concepts. That's what the players will do on their own. PGI wants these builds to get into tabletop and sellable miniatures through Catalyst. The same small amount of heatsinks shown on the C would keep that thing ice cold in tabletop. Extra heatsinks would be unnecessary. Also the average tons of ammo hardly goes above 4 for most mechs in tabletop. Anything more and you have a bomb, not a 'Mech.

(Edit) Removing them, would make sense. Smaller launchers don't shoot faster in tabletop so it'd still be pretty cold. Not sure if I'd want to get caught risking a shutdown though if lobbing two or three salvos before rushing out of there.

Edited by Koniving, 25 January 2018 - 09:17 AM.

[Koniving]

I had been running the prime in tabletop to reasonable success. Streaks are more of a obstacle than a help there, sure it helps you save ammo, but the frequency of not firing due to the success for hitting being too low makes it harder to use them. Instead, I've resorted to changing them to regular SRMs as the collateral damage to nearby structures does help in combat.

Edited by Koniving, 25 January 2018 - 08:17 AM.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

El Bandito, on 25 January 2018 - 07:37 AM, said:

Sunspider is gonna be a good 70 tonner with high mounts,

Agreed, provided the modeling reflects the concept art. Since it doesn't have lower arm actuators, its torso-twist numbers (speed and arc) will be important, too.

[Burke IV]

I dont really keep up but havnt PGI added extra stuff over TT on other mechs?

[Water Bear]

Metus regem, on 25 January 2018 - 08:02 AM, said:

rather often they are reduced to salvage in TT, and TT builds often beat them... But that's due to factors that MWO lacks, like TAC's.... and a few other things.

I haven't played TT in so long...maybe it's time to boot up Megamek again and have a go. You know what I really miss? The Wraith.

[Metus regem]

Burke IV, on 25 January 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

I dont really keep up but havnt PGI added extra stuff over TT on other mechs?

Yes and no...

PGI doesn't have the ability to code proper ammo switching for LB series AC/s so normal cAC/s are in MWO, PGI isn't able to code crit-splitting, so IS any mech that mounts a LB-20 will have that LB-20 replaced with something that can be arm mounted (AC/20 or UAC/20)... Along with that, we will never see mech mounted artillery units such as Arrow IV, Sniper, Thumper or Long Tom.

PGI also messed up bad with their ECM implementation....

[Metus regem]

Water Bear, on 25 January 2018 - 08:36 AM, said:

I haven't played TT in so long...maybe it's time to boot up Megamek again and have a go. You know what I really miss? The Wraith.

Luckly for me, I'm party of a group that plays TT campaigns weekly, so I get it in a lot. Even thinking about teaching it to my five year old, so that he can get a head with math and lateral thinking.

[Plastic Guru]

Burke IV, on 25 January 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

I dont really keep up but havnt PGI added extra stuff over TT on other mechs?

Yes, and totally changed certain aspects. Rear firing weapons are all front mounted. No quad mechs. No Arrow IV mechs. Jump jets aren't (much) directional, just up and down.
lot's of changes because it doesn't carry over to MWO from TT very well...and the reverse is true. Somebody said in TT that 4 tons of ammo is the most you'll usually see...any more and the mech will just blow up the first time someone shoots it.

[Burke IV]

I kinda feel like if they sell it here then it ought to work in this game first, no reason to tie the TT build to it but whatever.
It can do other LRM builds just not quite as good.

[Metus regem]

Plastic Guru, on 25 January 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

Yes, and totally changed certain aspects. Rear firing weapons are all front mounted. No quad mechs. No Arrow IV mechs. Jump jets aren't (much) directional, just up and down.
lot's of changes because it doesn't carry over to MWO from TT very well...and the reverse is true. Somebody said in TT that 4 tons of ammo is the most you'll usually see...any more and the mech will just blow up the first time someone shoots it.

Not to mention that ton for ton, MG ammo is the most destructive explosive in the universe...

1t (200 trigger pulls) of MG ammo = 400 damage, to you if you get crit in the MG ammo bin..

It does create some funny events if you are using large explosions and cascading engine failure rules... I've seen 1t of MG ammo start a chain of events that killed 6 mechs in one turn.

[Dread Render]

its an Omni mech!
very versatile.
...buy one and you get them all.
no reason to buy more than one really, no?

[Burke IV]

Dread Render, on 25 January 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

its an Omni mech!

Whatever you do you cant have 6 lanchers and tag. PGI always make these mechs where you have ot give up something if you want tag on your missile boat. I just think its wrong and it encourages the thing that everybody moans about. Give it a tag and it plays a differnt game.