44 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

There are a lot of things that are too big for their weights. The idea behind volumetric scaling is sound but the implementation is shoddy.



You've got heavies that are as tall as assaults but 30 tons lighter. All the lights outside the LCT and CMD are too big. The LCT and CMD should have been the baseline and every 5 tons in the same weight class should mean ~15% more volume, not +50% or more.


JVN is like 30% taller than an ACH but they're the same tonnage.
JR7 is huge. JR7 IIC width is like the width of an AWS not counting the arms on the AWS.
GHR is as tall as a 100 tonner.
WLF is like 30% bigger than an ACH with only 5 tons difference.


Some mechs are at a decent level, like the NVA and Catapult but most aren't.

[Nightbird]

PGI did a hybrid volume and surface area model, it's not just by volume as many people mistakenly claim.

Just take 5 locusts or piranha's, squash them into putty, reform them into an Atlas. You'll run out of material at the waist.

[C E Dwyer]

all bipeds need mobility buffs

[Xetelian]

Nightbird, on 28 January 2018 - 12:52 PM, said:

PGI did a hybrid volume and surface area model, it's not just by volume as many people mistakenly claim.

Just take 5 locusts or piranha's, squash them into putty, reform them into an Atlas. You'll run out of material at the waist.

Yeah the atlas is freaking huge. I don't recall it changing at all when they did the resize.


Whatever hybrid they're using it isn't working out for a lot of mechs.

[Y E O N N E]

Nightbird, on 28 January 2018 - 12:52 PM, said:

PGI did a hybrid volume and surface area model, it's not just by volume as many people mistakenly claim.

You keep saying that but you have never once provided the source.

You can just as easily run out of volume going from five Locusts to on Atlas by using a different baseline for each weight class or simply eyeballing it.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Black Knight and Nova Cat deserve a mention here. One is tall as Atlas, the other is broad as King Crab.

[Juodas Varnas]

Xetelian, on 28 January 2018 - 01:01 PM, said:

Yeah the atlas is freaking huge. I don't recall it changing at all when they did the resize.

Actually...
They made it BIGGER.
By quite a noticeable amount actually.

[MechaBattler]

I think they'd rather leave assaults where they are. Scale up a few lights. Instead of scaling down a lot of mechs.

[Nightbird]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 January 2018 - 01:09 PM, said:

You keep saying that but you have never once provided the source.

You can just as easily run out of volume going from five Locusts to on Atlas by using a different baseline for each weight class or simply eyeballing it.

So... you're saying that regardless of mech selected, you'll run out of volume. That's my point isn't it?

[Xetelian]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 January 2018 - 01:09 PM, said:

You keep saying that but you have never once provided the source.

You can just as easily run out of volume going from five Locusts to on Atlas by using a different baseline for each weight class or simply eyeballing it.

I personally don't think they're using ANY actual formula to size the mechs.







Look at those arms and chest...how are these two mechs similar in volume?

[Spheroid]

Seems like an OCD problem. TTK is fixed with armor quirks. Case closed.

[FupDup]

Spheroid, on 28 January 2018 - 01:42 PM, said:

Seems like an OCD problem. TTK is fixed with armor quirks. Case closed.

Some mechs have yet to receive them...

MechaBattler, on 28 January 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

I think they'd rather leave assaults where they are. Scale up a few lights. Instead of scaling down a lot of mechs.

Pretty much. They didn't want to admit that medium mechs were oversized from the get go.

Edited by FupDup, 28 January 2018 - 01:46 PM.

[Koniving]

Edit: Yep, they did. It used to be 17.6 meters. I respond a bit later about it.

Juodas Varnas, on 28 January 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:

Actually...
They made it BIGGER.
By quite a noticeable amount actually.

Atlas?
it's always been 17.8 meters in MWO, since the first time it was ever scaled in Heffner's 'make your own art using MWO assets" thread.

Yellow line is the 17 meter line, orange line is 17.8 meters.
Atlas is super imposed on Awesome's space.




Many of the assaults did not really get rescaled, some got posture changes though.

There's posts of me complaining about the Atlas's 17.8 meter size dating back to 2013.

Edited by Koniving, 30 January 2018 - 10:53 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Nightbird, on 28 January 2018 - 01:38 PM, said:

So... you're saying that regardless of mech selected, you'll run out of volume. That's my point isn't it?

That isn't your point. Your point seems to be to tell people that PGI used something other than volumetric scaling while simultaneously failing to account for the possibility that they did do volumetric scaling, they just didn't have a consistent reference point

And IIRC, on Twitter, they said what they did was volumetric with some bespoke adjustments as they felt necessary.

[FupDup]

Koniving, on 28 January 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

Atlas?
it's always been 17.8 meters in MWO, since the first time it was ever scaled in Heffner's 'make your own art using MWO assets" thread.

Yellow line is the 17 meter line, orange line is 17.8 meters.
Atlas is super imposed on Awesome's space.

-snip-

Many of the assaults did not really get rescaled, some got posture changes though.

There's posts of me complaining about the Atlas's 17.8 meter size dating back to 2013.

The Atlas was in fact enlarged a bit in the Great Rescale, and if the search feature wasn't so broken I'd have an easier time digging up the picture comparison. Gonna have to find this the hard way...

EDIT: NVM Varnas already handled it. However, I'll still link to the IS assault mech rescale thread here because it lets you hover your mouse over the picture to more clearly illustrate the size changes.

http://mwomercs.com/...ault-re-scales/

Edited by FupDup, 28 January 2018 - 02:16 PM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Koniving, on 28 January 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

Atlas?
it's always been 17.8 meters in MWO, since the first time it was ever scaled in Heffner's 'make your own art using MWO assets" thread.

Looks more than just a posture change to me.
https://static.mwome...a70650b5686.png
https://static.mwome...c390ef2a739.png

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 28 January 2018 - 02:04 PM.

[Nightbird]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 January 2018 - 01:59 PM, said:

That isn't your point. Your point seems to be to tell people that PGI used something other than volumetric scaling while simultaneously failing to account for the possibility that they did do volumetric scaling, they just didn't have a consistent reference point

And IIRC, on Twitter, they said what they did was volumetric with some bespoke adjustments as they felt necessary.

Volumetric scaling to me says that every ton of mech takes up the same volume, therefore a 20 ton mech should be 50% the volume of a 40 ton mech and 20% the volume of a 100 ton mech. What reference is there? Any two mechs can be compared, otherwise it's not volumetric.

[Xetelian]

However they're scaling, volumetric or some other method, they're way off and a lot of mechs are too big.

[Curccu]

Xetelian, on 28 January 2018 - 01:38 PM, said:

I personally don't think they're using ANY actual formula to size the mechs.







Look at those arms and chest...how are these two mechs similar in volume?

Spoiler

Not sure why most people here ignore at least one dimension when comparing something... remember all three dimensions! X, Y and Z

[Dogstar]

Xetelian, on 28 January 2018 - 08:48 PM, said:

However they're scaling, volumetric or some other method, they're way off and a lot of mechs are too big.

Proof.

Where's your proof?

I'm assuming you're just using the old fashioned MkI Eyeball?

Volumetric scaling works in three dimensions so you have to account for the overall shape of the mech not just the profile from one angle. Judging it by eye gets you nowhere and makes you look like an opinionated idiot.

SHOW SOME PROOF!