44 replies to this topic

[MW Waldorf Statler]

by this pic by the most parts in one view is covered from other parts in View from Top no feets and half arms ...bei sides no arms ..all the little elevations cavities and Holes (like the Weapon barrels now massive) in the 3 D Geometrie not existent...its like a Cheese whos you not seeing the holes in it

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 29 January 2018 - 03:36 AM.

[Koniving]

FupDup, on 28 January 2018 - 02:04 PM, said:

The Atlas was in fact enlarged a bit in the Great Rescale, and if the search feature wasn't so broken I'd have an easier time digging up the picture comparison. Gonna have to find this the hard way...

EDIT: NVM Varnas already handled it. However, I'll still link to the IS assault mech rescale thread here because it lets you hover your mouse over the picture to more clearly illustrate the size changes.

http://mwomercs.com/...ault-re-scales/

How was it enlarged?

Ah.
Guess that explains why I find myself bouncing between 17.6 and 17.8 as when typing I'd type 17.6 and be like "wait.."
.....

Ah, yep. From original scales.

17.6.

So yeah it did go up by 0.2 meters.

....The sad irony... is the real thing is "exaggerated" at 15 meters and actually closer to 13.6 in Battletech (the height of MWO's Hunchback).

For comparison with MWO's terrain in River city.




And while some might not agree with the scales here, these were done with structural/armor types as fixed, with endo steel and ferro armor resulting in thicker, bulkier mechs for the given weight. For MWO since you can change these, using that as a factor to balance scale is largely unfair as default state isn't what they will really use in the field. But if those were locked to variants, that could've been in the realm of helping scale.

The tallest mech in Battletech's 31st century (3000's) is the Executioner.
Which is shorter than most 55 ton mediums in MWO. Accurate ranges would make a lot more sense with smaller mechs. As well as BT speed limitations. (So the long and short of it is everything in MWO is too damn big..)

Edited by Koniving, 29 January 2018 - 06:00 AM.

[Jonathan8883]

Several times yesterday I mistook a Shadow Hawk for a Black Knight or Battlemaster. It's really big. So are Phoenix Hawks and a few others.

[process]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think there are a few mechs that should be up-scaled and compensated with generous armor/structure quirks. For instance, it just seems wrong to me that Catapults are about the size of Novas. Kind of immersion breaking.

Similarly, I think there is a bottom limit to certain light mech sizes. Size alone shouldn't be the equalizer. Again, quirks, and better agility.

[C E Dwyer]

process, on 29 January 2018 - 07:40 AM, said:

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think there are a few mechs that should be up-scaled and compensated with generous armor/structure quirks. For instance, it just seems wrong to me that Catapults are about the size of Novas. Kind of immersion breaking. Similarly, I think there is a bottom limit to certain light mech sizes. Size alone shouldn't be the equalizer. Again, quirks, and better agility.

Not just the Catapult but every single chicken walker has been reduced in size since the rescale, perhaps those should grew as well not just the I.S one you seem to be singling out

[process]

Cathy, on 29 January 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

Not just the Catapult but every single chicken walker has been reduced in size since the rescale, perhaps those should grew as well not just the I.S one you seem to be singling out

Sure. The Catapult is just the most egregious example I think.

[Y E O N N E]

Cathy, on 29 January 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

Not just the Catapult but every single chicken walker has been reduced in size since the rescale, perhaps those should grew as well not just the I.S one you seem to be singling out

Marauder got way bigger after the rescale and the Nightstar came out stupidly huge under the new scaling paradigm. Jenner IIC got bigger, too. Stalker remained about the same, IIRC. Dire Wolf got squished a bit. Timber Wolf got bigger. Can't remember what happened to the Ebon Jaguar.

Really, it seenms the Catapult and Locust were the only real winners among chicken walkers.

[Khobai]

they need to just focus on rescaling the mediums for now

and maybe the most extreme cases for the other weight classes

but the mediums really need a rescaling pass. theres no point in playing a medium thats the size of a heavy, has less weapons and armor than a heavy, and goes the same speed or barely faster than a heavy.


mediums also need to go faster than heavies. I think a lot of mediums could use a +5% max speed quirk. because mediums already have to devote the highest percentage of their overall tonnage to engine tonnage. thats not really fair.

Edited by Khobai, 29 January 2018 - 12:07 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Oh yeah, the Crab got bigger, too. Forgot about that one.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 January 2018 - 11:59 AM, said:

Marauder got way bigger after the rescale and the Nightstar came out stupidly huge under the new scaling paradigm. Jenner IIC got bigger, too. Stalker remained about the same, IIRC. Dire Wolf got squished a bit. Timber Wolf got bigger. Can't remember what happened to the Ebon Jaguar.

Really, it seenms the Catapult and Locust were the only real winners among chicken walkers.

Stalker got a little smaller, and the Nova got way smaller.

[Throe]

Khobai, on 29 January 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

mediums also need to go faster than heavies. I think a lot of mediums could use a +5% max speed quirk. because mediums already have to devote the highest percentage of their overall tonnage to engine tonnage. thats not really fair.

So long as the absolute top speed limit was maintained, I'd actually be in favor of seeing a +5% and +10% speed increase accross the board for Mediums and Lights, respectively.

I find it strange that many Heavies and mediums are the same speed... and many Lights just seem too slow for how light they are.

But then, I sincerely think they need to fix the problem with actual weight not affecting actual speed for a given engine rating.

I should be able to take a 95 Ton Atlas and have it go the same speed as any other weight capped 95 ton 'Mech with the same engine rating.

Similarly, it would add another dimension to the gameplay to be able to take slightly overloaded 'Mechs at an appropriate performance penalty.

[DaZur]

Curccu, on 29 January 2018 - 12:27 AM, said:

Not sure why most people here ignore at least one dimension when comparing something... remember all three dimensions! X, Y and Z

Because then they can't make preposterous inferences based on faulty logic?

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Nightbird, on 28 January 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

Volumetric scaling to me says that every ton of mech takes up the same volume, therefore a 20 ton mech should be 50% the volume of a 40 ton mech and 20% the volume of a 100 ton mech. What reference is there? Any two mechs can be compared, otherwise it's not volumetric.

the right arm of a Centurion has the same Proportions and Volume as the left arm ...in the right arm a Big Cannon in the left arm is Northing as Myomere and Activators.

[YueFei]

Yeah, like Koniving said, almost all the mechs are too big. The Great Rescale should've shrunk most mechs across the board.

One of the most important things in a game is to give players agency. That is, some degree of control over what is happening to them. Getting shot at is normal and expected in a Mechwarrior game, it's not meant to be a twitch shooter with low TTK. What players want is to have some degree of control over where they get hit, and rescale + agility pass would go a long way towards fixing that problem.

It also makes the Lore more sensible: that is, the reason mech pilots land shots all over different components (instead of focusing it all into one hitbox) is not because they can't aim, it's because their targets are agile and maneuvering defensively, changing directions, twisting and turning.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

and we must have new Animations with really running Mechs ...not only double step

[process]

Samial, on 29 January 2018 - 09:01 PM, said:

Catapult is the same size as a linebacker not a nova... not sure how you see them the same size.

Well, maybe I was thinking old Nova. Current Catapult seems to fit entirely inside a Linebacker.

[Xetelian]

Wish we could rally and tweet Russ enough times to get them to shrink all the mechs by 30% or so.

[Kanjejou]

Xetelian, on 30 January 2018 - 08:02 PM, said:

Wish we could rally and tweet Russ enough times to get them to shrink all the mechs by 30% or so.

maybe reduce heavy and assault 10-15% but light and med need a goo 30% reduction

[JediPanther]

When your light mech is the same size as a mech double its weight...

[jss78]

Curccu, on 29 January 2018 - 12:27 AM, said:

Not sure why most people here ignore at least one dimension when comparing something... remember all three dimensions! X, Y and Z

Amen, I'm so tired of people complaining about 'mech X being too tall -- when tallness in isolation means absolutely nothing.

The good ol' Shadow Hawk is basically a design study on how to take a 55-ton war machine, and shape into as big of a barn door as possible. Yeah it's tall as heck -- with that basic geometry it was always going to be.