38 replies to this topic

[Callsigntal0n]

Clans have both Omni mechs and wit hthe IIC and other variants also have normal battlemechs. currently the game is in 3060ish which would be the right time frame to release the Owens (3063 if memory proves correct.) as a 35 ton scout it was designed and intended to replace the aging jenner battlemech. as both a scout and cavalry mech. the balance comes to locked single heatsinks and a locked XL engine. now being a Sphere mech the xl engine equals death on a side torso kill but the arm missile pods are more than big enough and the mech is fast enough to make an XL appreciable. this would be the first Omni mech for th sphere and as a light would be a good testbed for future IS Omni's. all mechs also sport a permanent Taglaser in the CT as well as a BAP. these would help balance the mech with tonnage for weaponry and pods but also would enforce its lore status as a support spotter/cavalry support mech. as most owens have some combo of energy and missiles a possible hero variant would have 4 or more ballistic slots either torso or arm mounted to add the "something different" in a hero.

the main problem I see is PGI's fear of giving the innersphere pilots an Omni mech. which is also why I would say put in the owens, being a light wit ha locked XL engine it would be a Perfect testbed that would be easy to balance. as a final point it would be a great nostalgia mech that would almost complete the MW4 trend going on with the announcement of the Fafnir hellspawn thanatos and among others. (only other mech off the top of my head is the argus but that's another post.). plus the last 5 mechs (outside of piranha) have all been on the heavier side with the last IS light being the Osiris. from a time period, lore, and timing view the Owens would be a great pick for your next announcement. (as well as a day 1 ult pack preorder from me)

ive said my piece I look forward to comments and Civil discussion.

[FupDup]

The issue with the Owens is that it has hardwired SHS, standard structure, and standard armor. Even if PGI unlocked both the hardwired BAP and TAG, this little robot would still have issues.

Technically godquirks can say anything, but PGI is very stingy when it comes to giving quirks to robots in need. Alternatively PGI could maybe create their own Owens Mk. 2 that has a fully min-maxed base chassis, but that is even more unlikely than godquirks.

Edited by FupDup, 03 February 2018 - 05:30 PM.

[Bombast]

IS Omnimechs are a popular topic around here. We talk about them often.

General consensus, I believe, is that the Owens has a lot of problems that would make it challenging to balance in MWO, and a better option for an IS Light Omnimech would be the Raptor. It's lore and thematically friendly, and has a pretty good balance of potential hitbox, hardpoints, and hard locked construction tech.

It's companions should probably be the Men Shen, Black Hawk-Ku, and the Sunder (Or Templar, if you're a degenerate).

[Callsigntal0n]

FupDup, on 03 February 2018 - 05:29 PM, said:

The issue with the Owens is that it has hardwired SHS, standard structure, and standard armor. Even if PGI unlocked both the hardwired BAP and TAG, this little robot would still have issues.

Technically godquirks can say anything, but PGI is very stingy when it comes to giving quirks to robots in need. Alternatively PGI could maybe create their own Owens Mk. 2 that has a fully min-maxed base chassis, but that is even more unlikely than godquirks.

the whole point is the Omni tech. standard structure and standard armor while sure increase the weight it (in theory) balances itself, less weight equals less weapons the whole point behind an Omni is the customization. want a laser boat? by all the laser omnis. etc. of course you could make non lore adjustments and give it endo as an example but even that would be lore as the Blake owens sported endo. and even if they unmounts the TAG and BAP that would only free maybe 4 tons? the owens would have the same firepower as its predecessor the Jenner and would mount closer to the same weapons as the raven. (though personally I would keep the standard configurations with maybe some tweaks t oincrease armor values such as taking of fthe small laser.) with some thought it Could work. and hell even if it was DOA I would still play it and buy it. (owens is my #1 favorite mech. much bias.

Edited by Callsigntal0n, 03 February 2018 - 05:47 PM.

[Metus regem]

Bombast, on 03 February 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

IS Omnimechs are a popular topic around here. We talk about them often.

General consensus, I believe, is that the Owens has a lot of problems that would make it challenging to balance in MWO, and a better option for an IS Light Omnimech would be the Raptor. It's lore and thematically friendly, and has a pretty good balance of potential hitbox, hardpoints, and hard locked construction tech.

It's companions should probably be the Men Shen, Black Hawk-Ku, and the Sunder (Or Templar, if you're a degenerate).

I can only shot this for emphasis, myself, Gas, Bomb and FLG have debated these mech many times and we all agree that these five are some of the strogest options for the first run of IS Omni mechs.

[Callsigntal0n]

as much as they might be the best from a gameplay standpoint I'm looking at it from an accessibility standpoint as well. the Owens is an iconic light mech that most casuals would recognize easily. (as a TT player I know all of those save the Blackhawk ku) but MWO NEEDS to bring back casuals. right now only those who actually are looking for a battletech game are staying for mwo and I fear that this game (as frustrating as it may be at times) will crumble and die as soon as MW5 launches. to bring in more players and by extension more revenue pgi is releasing iconic mechs to appeal to the greater masses. (more people know about the Fafnir than the behemoth as an example) as much I may love the Men Shen (its a staple in my light lances) the sheer amount the owens has been in mech media would give it a better foothold than the other previously mentioned. and if the owens is successful they might implement the others. (hell it might be the next major update.)

[ROSS-128]

What would be the point of trying to bait people in with the Owens if it's junk though? I don't think those players would appreciate PGI basically trolling them.

[Bombast]

Callsigntal0n, on 03 February 2018 - 06:02 PM, said:

as much as they might be the best from a gameplay standpoint I'm looking at it from an accessibility standpoint as well. the Owens is an iconic light mech that most casuals would recognize easily. (as a TT player I know all of those save the Blackhawk ku) but MWO NEEDS to bring back casuals.

If they Owens is released on its own, it will kill IS Omnimechs forever, or push back further releases a year. And any new player drawn to the Owens as his first mech will almost certainly result in that player ditching the mech itself, or the game.

I know nostalgia is a powerful force, but hot garbage is hot garbage.

Callsigntal0n, on 03 February 2018 - 05:46 PM, said:

of course you could make non lore adjustments and give it endo as an example but even that would be lore as the Blake owens sported endo.

Uh... what?

Edited by Bombast, 03 February 2018 - 06:17 PM.

[Kanil]

Callsigntal0n, on 03 February 2018 - 06:02 PM, said:

pgi is releasing iconic mechs to appeal to the greater masses... the sheer amount the owens has been in mech media would give it a better foothold than the other previously mentioned. and if the owens is successful they might implement the others.

Releasing a garbage 'mech simply because it's iconic hasn't really worked so well for the Uziel, and the Owens makes the Uziel look top tier meta in comparison.

The Owens is going to be somewhere between "mediocre" and "the worst 'mech in MWO". I think after the Uziel (and Hellspawn, and Thanatos) people are pretty tired of buying crappy 'mechs just because they're iconic/remembered from MW4.

[Metus regem]

Call, even in TT the Owens is a joke, no one I know ever takes it, the BV is better spent on tanks... I'd rather take two okay mechs over one good one and an Owens.... scratch that, the only time I have ever taken an Owens, is when I did an entire Gen One ominmech company for a special event.... even then it left me wishing I had brought conventional vehicles in place of the Owens.

[Callsigntal0n]

again as stated in the OP I am majorly biased in favor of the owens. however optimism aside, I have faith in the owens just like I had (and still have) in the uziel. (if you are engaging closer than 300m in an uziel you are using it wrong as it was designed as a standoff mech) in the end its not about tabletop equivalent. in the games it has been in the owens has been a solid mech MW4 MWLL and I think MW3 and it also matters as to what you COMPARE it too. against say the kitfoxes an owens would be great but in a brawl with with a srm jenner IIC it would crumble as would most lights and even up to heavies. its more akin to the Raven more than any other mech. in lore it was a cavalry and spotter mech. using more like a raven the Owens would actually be a decent mech for MWO. a bias for a fps game based on tabletop statistics is the wrong way to think about it. TT is not the reason people were excited for the uziel, thanatos, hellspawn, Fafnir. its the Video Games they played with them that made them excited. hell that's why we don't have the hatchetman. its a great TT mech but it just doesn't work in a shooter game. (plus melee would break mwos code)

Edited by Callsigntal0n, 03 February 2018 - 06:36 PM.

[TheArisen]

Metus regem, on 03 February 2018 - 05:50 PM, said:

I can only shot this for emphasis, myself, Gas, Bomb and FLG have debated these mech many times and we all agree that these five are some of the strogest options for the first run of IS Omni mechs.

I feel left out haha

[Bombast]

Callsigntal0n, on 03 February 2018 - 06:36 PM, said:

in the games it has been in the owens has been a solid mech MW4 MWLL and I think MW3 and it also matters as to what you COMPARE it too.

The Owens was not a good mech in MW3 or MW4.

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against say the kitfoxes an owens would be great but in a brawl with with a srm jenner IIC it would crumble as would most lights and even up to heavies.

There's no reason to think the Owens would be able to stand up to a Kit Fox. Even if it could, saying the Owens could stand up to exactly one mech, and would get trashed by other lights, heavies and mediums, is hardly an endorsement.

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its more akin to the Raven more than any other mech.

In every measurable sense it's going to be inferior to the MWO Raven, sans ultra quirks.

Listen, if the Owens is your personal **** mech, that's fine. We all have them, and most people's favorite mech isn't the best one. But be honest about it. You want it because it tickles yours nostalgia bone and nothing else. No one will think less of you for it.

Edited by Bombast, 03 February 2018 - 06:44 PM.

[FupDup]

Bombast, on 03 February 2018 - 06:43 PM, said:

The Owens was not a good mech in MW3 or MW4.

Actually it was okay in MW4, I had so much fun trolling poptarts with a 2 Heavy Rocket Launcher loadout set to chainfire...

[TheArisen]

Bombast, on 03 February 2018 - 06:43 PM, said:

The Owens was not a good mech in MW3 or MW4.



There's no reason to think the Owens would be able to stand up to a Kit Fox. Even if it could, saying the Owens could stand up to exactly one mech, and would get trashed by other lights, heavies and mediums, is hardly an endorsement.



In every measurable sense it's going to be inferior to the MWO Raven, sans ultra quirks.

Listen, if the Owens is your personal **** mech, that's fine. We all have them, and most people's favorite mech isn't the best one. But be honest about it. You want it because it tickles yours nostalgia bone and nothing else. No one will think less of you for it.

Yeah this is just the how it is. It has locked single heat sinks and standard armor and structure, locked TAG & BAP... that doesn't balance out the mech it makes it unable to compete. Omnis aren't magically good mechs just because omni and changing hardpoints around isn't a reason to gimp a mech like this.

[TheArisen]

If I was you, with the Owen being your pet mech (I totally understand, really), I'd be advocating a MK2 Owens that Fup mentioned.

[Callsigntal0n]

Bombast, on 03 February 2018 - 06:43 PM, said:

The Owens was not a good mech in MW3 or MW4.



There's no reason to think the Owens would be able to stand up to a Kit Fox. Even if it could, saying the Owens could stand up to exactly one mech, and would get trashed by other lights, heavies and mediums, is hardly an endorsement.



In every measurable sense it's going to be inferior to the MWO Raven, sans ultra quirks.

Listen, if the Owens is your personal **** mech, that's fine. We all have them, and most people's favorite mech isn't the best one. But be honest about it. You want it because it tickles yours nostalgia bone and nothing else. No one will think less of you for it.

first point: in my experience it was a fantastic mech. (I still have and play MW4 and all its expansions as well as MWLL)

second point: now youre just being nitpicky. I used the kitfox as an example not saying it specifically counters it but nice try on that one *slow clap*

third point: ANY new IS mech needs quirks to stay competitive again you are basing assumptions on TT and the default numbers. the raven has narc quirks and all IS lights (that I use and can think of) have structure and or armor quirks. there is NO reason to believe the Owens Wouldn't be quirked. and again I was simply comparing it to its closest analogue in MWO. comparing a raven and owens is like comparing a Sniper and a Designated marksman. while both share similar attributes they are no the same thing.

fourth point: I already stated in my first two posts that I was heavily biased in favor of it. in fact ive said that in EVERY post I haven't exactly been secret that it is my personal chassis of choice. if ive been secretive about it here it is in all caps THE OWENS IS MY ALL TIME #1 QUEEN OF A MECH AND AM HEAVILY BIASED IN FAVOR OF IT. but even I can look through the haze of nostalgia and look at it from a functional perspective.

it has become apparent that you are simply looking for argument and are apparently ignoring most of what I am saying to simply support your narrow view.

[Callsigntal0n]

TheArisen, on 03 February 2018 - 06:53 PM, said:

If I was you, with the Owen being your pet mech (I totally understand, really), I'd be advocating a MK2 Owens that Fup mentioned.

I would be fine with a mark 2 variant, I just want the mech in game and was throwing it out there as a candidate for a first IS Omni using its videogame pedigree with my own experiences as my reasoning.

[TheArisen]

Callsigntal0n, on 03 February 2018 - 06:54 PM, said:

first point: in my experience it was a fantastic mech. (I still have and play MW4 and all its expansions as well as MWLL)

second point: now youre just being nitpicky. I used the kitfox as an example not saying it specifically counters it but nice try on that one *slow clap*

third point: ANY new IS mech needs quirks to stay competitive again you are basing assumptions on TT and the default numbers. the raven has narc quirks and all IS lights (that I use and can think of) have structure and or armor quirks. there is NO reason to believe the Owens Wouldn't be quirked. and again I was simply comparing it to its closest analogue in MWO. comparing a raven and owens is like comparing a Sniper and a Designated marksman. while both share similar attributes they are no the same thing.

fourth point: I already stated in my first two posts that I was heavily biased in favor of it. in fact ive said that in EVERY post I haven't exactly been secret that it is my personal chassis of choice. if ive been secretive about it here it is in all caps THE OWENS IS MY ALL TIME #1 QUEEN OF A MECH AND AM HEAVILY BIASED IN FAVOR OF IT. but even I can look through the haze of nostalgia and look at it from a functional perspective.

it has become apparent that you are simply looking for argument and are apparently ignoring most of what I am saying to simply support your narrow view.

Look, I get it, you love it but even if it got Urbie level quirks it would still struggle. It would need to be the most quirked mech in all of MWO to not be just a gimmick for being an IS omni and even then it would be weak. Let's advocate a MK2 Owens that fixes it's problems, it makes everyone happy. You and other fans get your Owens and everyone else can appreciate not having the worst mech in the game added.

Callsigntal0n, on 03 February 2018 - 06:57 PM, said:

I would be fine with a mark 2 variant, I just want the mech in game and was throwing it out there as a candidate for a first IS Omni using its videogame pedigree with my own experiences as my reasoning.

Fair enough but keep in mind MWO isn't MW4. Mechs that were good then aren't always good now.

[Bombast]

Callsigntal0n, on 03 February 2018 - 06:54 PM, said:

first point: in my experience it was a fantastic mech. (I still have and play MW4 and all its expansions as well as MWLL)

Ok.

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second point: now youre just being nitpicky. I used the kitfox as an example not saying it specifically counters it but nice try on that one *slow clap*

I'm not being nitpicky - The Owens is bad. It's bad in every measurable way, and you've yet to mention anyway way in which it would be good. It;s got bad construction tech. It's got bad hard locked equipment. It's got bad hitboxes. Its bad.

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third point: ANY new IS mech needs quirks to stay competitive again you are basing assumptions on TT and the default numbers.

I'm basing this off of TT values and all known art work on the mech. If you stripped every IS mech of its quirks, and put it up against a quirkless Owens, it might be able to beat one of the worse Spiders. That's a fantastically low bar. It's bad.

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the raven has narc quirks and all IS lights (that I use and can think of) have structure and or armor quirks.

And? If the Owens got equal quirks to other IS lights, it would be inferior to them, because everything else about it is bad. It's only hope is mega quirking - Quirking in excess of all known IS mechs. It would need offensive quirks out the wazzo and armor quirks that would make the Urbanmech blush. It needs a proverbial stack of crutch. It's bad.

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there is NO reason to believe the Owens Wouldn't be quirked. and again I was simply comparing it to its closest analogue in MWO. comparing a raven and owens is like comparing a Sniper and a Designated marksman. while both share similar attributes they are no the same thing.

And I'm saying that the Owens is a terrible mech compared to just about everything in MWO. Raven, Panther, Locust, everything. I have zero faith in it being able to beat anything.

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fourth point: I already stated in my first two posts that I was heavily biased in favor of it. in fact ive said that in EVERY post I haven't exactly been secret that it is my personal chassis of choice. if ive been secretive about it here it is in all caps THE OWENS IS MY ALL TIME #1 QUEEN OF A MECH AND AM HEAVILY BIASED IN FAVOR OF IT. but even I can look through the haze of nostalgia and look at it from a functional perspective.

And if that's all you were saying, I'd be totally cool with it. I'm in no position to judge - I really, really want a JM7, a redundant mech that would add virtually nothing to the game. But I don't try to justify it with bogus claims. It's just something I'd think would be neat.

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it has become apparent that you are simply looking for argument and are apparently ignoring most of what I am saying to simply support your narrow view.

I'm painfully paying attention to what you're saying.

Edited by Bombast, 03 February 2018 - 07:05 PM.