103 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

Kaeb Odellas, on 04 February 2018 - 04:37 PM, said:

Because exposing lots of skin while sitting in a cramped cockpit with lots of hot metal surfaces is a great idea. It's totally not for the benefit of horny teenagers this nonsense was trying to attract in the 80s.

Look, some aspects of Battletech are worth keeping. Some are not.

Breathing skin. (Sorry to edit this again but I thought of something I should add). I work at a factory that produces large plastic objects (usually tanks, laundry carts, etc) through rotomolding. The ovens get to about a thousand degrees and one not far away can reach 3,000 degrees. It sucks in the summer and we wear less despite the hazards of touching the metal even after cooling. There are, of course, several types of metal used on the molds. After simple water and fan cooling the metal frames are actually chilling to the touch even when the rest of the metal could burn your fingers. Each week we clean the ovens to reduce fire risks and we have to do it while the oven is over 160 degrees in order to make it easier, sometimes I start with it around 200 and stand outside to get the edges before walking in. A few weeks back it was freaking cold so I didn't take off my jacket, figured sheltering myself from the hot air would make it easier. Nope. Instead I sweat harder than I ever would just standing inside there and the inside of my jacket was soaked (leading me to get sick soon after with the cold air outside).
My point is if the power for the cooling vest ran out, its just a vest and they can shred it, they aren't wearing much anyway. If they were in a full suit they would cook really damn fast in a hot cockpit. Even so, part of life support's functionality is to keep the cockpit cool despite the hot environment, and there is little doubt that the metals used would be those that do not retain heat as strongly as other metals. For example iron, aluminum, and some types of steel retain heat for a long period of time (a surprising thing to learn about aluminum) while the other steel used in the frame of the mold is actually cold enough to touch with less than 10 minutes of cooling (while the rest will still burn the heck out of your finger even after 40+ minutes of cooling after a 50 minute cooking cycle at 700 degrees).

Now if you lose one or both life support systems, then I'd be concerned about being practically naked inside of a cockpit. But then it wouldn't matter what you were wearing, either you GTFO from the cockpit or you die.

(Back to original post) Also much of the cockpit surfaces a pilot is supposed to be able to touch isn't supposed to be metal or metallic.

If they were trying to attract teens... where's the cleavage and why is it always granny panties with bulky Frankenstein helmets?

Hate to say it, but that doesn't attract horny teens.

That's how you do it.

Full body catsuits work too.


But feature concealing life preserver vests and granny panties with the most unfashion-tuned boots one could imagine? Yeah, no.

Not even gonna mention that most of the pilot pictures are men in their skivvies. Considering the male target audience... I'd say they did a poor job of fitting that method of drawing "horny" teens in.

Even Japanese Battletech kinda did poor on the attracting horny teens department with their version.

Similar aesthetic, more clothes.
Then again... Enforcer Japanese version.

Their stuff looks a lot more....technically advanced.

Edited by Koniving, 05 February 2018 - 06:26 AM.

[Dago Red]

Kaeb Odellas, on 04 February 2018 - 04:37 PM, said:

Because exposing lots of skin while sitting in a cramped cockpit with lots of hot metal surfaces is a great idea. It's totally not for the benefit of horny teenagers this nonsense was trying to attract in the 80s.

Look, some aspects of Battletech are worth keeping. Some are not.

I mean there's a high enough percentage of people who fell in love with the series during its horrible 80's aesthetic phase that ignoring them seems silly.

Hell i'm unhappy that they're releasing the slightly more practical looking later era mechs right now when I'm still missing some of my favorites that look like giant fat dudes slouching around the battlefield,

[C E Dwyer]

Koniving, on 04 February 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

Breathing skin. Also much of the cockpit surfaces a pilot is supposed to be able to touch isn't supposed to be metal or metallic.
If they were trying to attract teens... where's the cleavage and why is it always granny panties with bulky Frankenstein helmets?

Hate to say it, but that doesn't attract horny teens.

That's how you do it.

Full body catsuits work too.


But feature concealing life preserver vests and granny panties with the most unfashion-tuned boots one could imagine? Yeah, no.

Not even gonna mention that most of the pilot pictures are men in their skivvies. Considering the male target audience... I'd say they did a poor job of fitting that method of drawing "horny" teens in.

Yeah but BattleTech has been hit by the PC bat, the same as everything else.

A few more Harvey Weinstein moments, and the standard uniform, will make one of the pilgrim fathers feel restricted and over dressed

[Kaeb Odellas]

Koniving, on 04 February 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

Breathing skin. Also much of the cockpit surfaces a pilot is supposed to be able to touch isn't supposed to be metal or metallic.
If they were trying to attract teens... where's the cleavage and why is it always granny panties with bulky Frankenstein helmets?

Hate to say it, but that doesn't attract horny teens.

That's how you do it.

Full body catsuits work too.


But feature concealing life preserver vests and granny panties with the most unfashion-tuned boots one could imagine? Yeah, no.

Not even gonna mention that most of the pilot pictures are men in their skivvies. Considering the male target audience... I'd say they did a poor job of fitting that method of drawing "horny" teens in.

Even Japanese Battletech kinda did poor on the attracting horny teens department with their version.

Similar aesthetic, more clothes.
Then again... Enforcer Japanese version.

Their stuff looks a lot more....technically advanced.

Hey, just because FASA didn't do the best job doesn't mean they weren't trying. I think you're applying a more modern standard of "sexiness" to these older works.

In particular, the cut of this woman's "granny panties" wouldn't look out of place in old Baywatch.

[Bombast]

All this talk about sexy mechwarriors, and all I can think is...

[FupDup]

Bombast, on 04 February 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

All this talk about sexy mechwarriors, and all I can think is...

Looks like we've come full-circle back to kitchen jokes.

[Seranov]

Koniving, on 04 February 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

Even Japanese Battletech kinda did poor on the attracting horny teens department with their version.

Similar aesthetic, more clothes.
Then again... Enforcer Japanese version.

Their stuff looks a lot more....technically advanced.

Japan has the right idea. Make your pilots cute, and your robots sexy.

[Koniving]

Seranov, on 04 February 2018 - 06:09 PM, said:

Japan has the right idea. Make your pilots cute, and your robots sexy.

That's the thing the other guy is accusing the 1980s granny panties and formless vests of being.

[Bombast]

Seranov, on 04 February 2018 - 06:09 PM, said:

Japan has the right idea. Make your pilots cute, and your robots sexy.

[Koniving]

Kaeb Odellas, on 04 February 2018 - 05:18 PM, said:

Hey, just because FASA didn't do the best job doesn't mean they weren't trying. I think you're applying a more modern standard of "sexiness" to these older works.

In particular, the cut of this woman's "granny panties" wouldn't look out of place in old Baywatch.

The only example of "sexy", however. Which comes from a place plagued with an interesting backstory.

Now in the Liao handbook there is a vivid description of someone whose beauty is unmatched.

She's in a full formal wear uniform and riding a horse, with a pretty chinese face. o.O;
Rhonda Snord (Heavy Metal's pilot) is about the next closest thing.

But most of the images of her...

Are of this age or older.

There's actually so few "sexy" things... and so many men wearing what amounts to boxers, boots, gloves, bulky helms and vests with no shirts that if it was intended to lure through sexuality one would really have to question the sexuality they were going for.

Catalyst on the other hand...

Yeah they're trying. Latex suits?

But back to FASA...

Still can't argue with the design.

Even if this awesome image is probably still a guy... in a vest... in his underwear.

[YueFei]

Dont LRM me please, on 04 February 2018 - 04:05 PM, said:

Oh yes, since I'm camping all the time I never get kills and never get a positive win rate, which means that statistically I am a variable that increases win chances. That's attained by camping, yes. Especially when I play Atlases mostly and I'm always camping give me a break.



Yes, your military experience is very relevant to this conversation. I also want to let you know that the vast majority of armies that have ever existed did not employ or employed an extremely small amount of women. Furthermore, in modern armies they are normally put into positions that are non-combative. Finally, the women that try to enter combative roles are statistically proven (specifically mentioning Israeli and American armies) struggling and failing physical tests, so much so that the strength and endurance requirements for female soldiers is reduced so they can actually pass. The U.S. military has also written official reports explaining the inefficiency and liabilities associated with arming women for combat. They are weaker than men, specifically in height and upper body strength since they do not have testosterone in their endocrine systems, and are also prone to less aggressive behavior a due to the lack of testosterone in their endocrine system.

So my point is that it is silly to have females represented in the battlefield when they hardly capable of doing so and are barely represented in combat roles in any army.

No amount of hypotheticals, "what ifs" or anecdotal information that you provide will debunk any of this.

Upper body strength and physical endurance are mostly irrelevant for piloting fighter jets.... or mechs. I don't suppose you'd like to walk up to Kim Campbell and tell her she isn't aggressive enough? Or go to any of the relatives of Lyudmila Pavlichenko and tell them you think she was a coward?

Or, if you wanna talk about the era of muscle-powered weaponry, Mongols at their height of conquests had women in their army.

If you really want to just go by merit, while it's true that the vast majority of men are stronger than most women, if you really were to just take the most fit and skilled portion of your population, there will be some women in there, too.

[Trenchbird]

Bombast, on 04 February 2018 - 04:14 PM, said:

Somewhere, OP is reading this thread and thinking...

Pretty much.

Funny enough, this is the most 'popular' thread I've made.

EDIT; Also, I'm stealing that gif. That is so applicable to my situation in every match I've played in every game as of late, that I can't help but to use it.

Edited by Catten Hart, 04 February 2018 - 09:43 PM.

[Bombast]

Catten Hart, on 04 February 2018 - 09:38 PM, said:

Funny enough, this is the most 'popular' thread I've made.

It's always the ones that go wrong that are popular.

Quote

EDIT; Also, I'm stealing that gif. That is so applicable to my situation in every match I've played in every game as of late, that I can't help but to use it.

Go for it.

[Koniving]

YueFei, on 04 February 2018 - 09:31 PM, said:

Upper body strength and physical endurance are mostly irrelevant for piloting fighter jets.... or mechs. I don't suppose you'd like to walk up to Kim Campbell and tell her she isn't aggressive enough? Or go to any of the relatives of Lyudmila Pavlichenko and tell them you think she was a coward?

Or, if you wanna talk about the era of muscle-powered weaponry, Mongols at their height of conquests had women in their army.

If you really want to just go by merit, while it's true that the vast majority of men are stronger than most women, if you really were to just take the most fit and skilled portion of your population, there will be some women in there, too.

My wife would disagree with Dont LRM, too.

I worked over time one night. She thought I was out with another woman. I lost three of my front teeth in a single punch.

She's 5'1" and I'm 6'5". My wife was never in the military.

When I was 20 I had a girlfriend that could bench press me, I was 175 pounds (when I first went to basic I was 152 just to give you an idea of how much muscle I had put on, mind you I was frequently singled out throughout the entire 9 weeks of basic because I was the guy that had a **** eating grin when the Drill Sergeants introduced themselves and tried so hard to stifle a laugh when a specific Drill Sergeant with a speech impediment was practically spitting in my face about it) and still in the army (but not for much longer). She was air force and 18 and hadn't been to the Airforce version of basic yet.

That girlfriend was 6'1 so a full foot taller than my wife. I remember the first time I saw her in person, I'm so used to towering over women and men alike. After she went through Air Force's basic, she told me that many of the guys going through the training kept wimping out for the first 4 weeks while only some of the girls wimped out, though more girls complained despite doing better. And instead of runs, they had to pedal bicycles (much to her disappointment but damn do I wish I went Airforce instead) and much of the exercise went into cardio vascular as the primary focus rather than muscle building or a balance. Also to her disappointment. Army went for more of a balance. She wishes she went army.

Funny thing is she still wasn't ripped or muscular in appearance nor did she lose her femininity. But she was stronger than me before she went inKinda terrified at how strong she could be if she did get ripped or bulked or shredded.

Largely, girls have a higher pain tolerance than men. Nevermind the broke a nail joke, sure that hurts but most of the whining from that is actually the amount of time it took to grow and shape it.

In terms of Battletech, females are very frequent in the field. More often in mechs than not. Some factions not so much. Liao has a poor female to male ratio, but their elites at the last thing I read were over 80% female.... and they have a lot of grunts and novices. After all in prolonged battles of defense even children start mounting machines of war. The duty of every man, woman and child. Citizenship is earned, not a privilege.

Battletech does have a strong focus of physical and mental strength for pilots, however, so much so that I wonder how "Twitch" and various other Mechwarrior characters ever became pilots. Got to master martial arts, various fitness trainings, etc. But that's from the RPG. Some pilots though are described as so fat that only an Atlas could carry them. That's nobility and wealthy people, though. But if you can be so fat you can need a special modification to the already door-sized hatch to your mech just to get in it and STILL pilot one flawlessly, yeah strength isn't entirely necessary.

Admittedly, the Battletech cartoon has some really strongly sexist jokes about an Aerotech pilot and her difficulties in piloting a mech (mainly due to poor decision making). Then again, the cockpit space inside of a Mauler despite how short they depict the mech, when in the scene where an elemental breaches the cockpit and attacks...the elemental is able to fit inside and there's enough room for the entire Star Trek bridge crew... so I take the cartoon with 32 grains of salt. (Also the Centurion is taller than the Mauler...)

Also fun.


Adding in.
I'm also proud that last week, I found out my 1 year and 4 month old daughter is quite a bit stronger than a 3 year old boy. My wife babysat some of a coworker's kids. The boy lacked the strength to open a particularly heavy push door, one that my daughter is barely even stalled by (and if I'm not careful she can rush right out of when leaving our apartment building). Was quite surprised. As for pain tolerance, seen that first hand too. My daughter has the unfortunate and self-destructive tendency to slam her head into things when throwing a tantrum.

(Any parents have any experience and suggestions on that?)

Edited by Koniving, 05 February 2018 - 08:01 AM.

[Metus regem]

Koniving, on 05 February 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

Adding in.
I'm also proud that last week, I found out my 1 year and 4 month old daughter is quite a bit stronger than a 3 year old boy. My wife babysat some of a coworker's kids. The boy lacked the strength to open a particularly heavy push door, one that my daughter is barely even stalled by (and if I'm not careful she can rush right out of when leaving our apartment building). Was quite surprised. As for pain tolerance, seen that first hand too. My daughter has the unfortunate and self-destructive tendency to slam her head into things when throwing a tantrum.

(Any parents have any experience and suggestions on that?)

Ahh kids...

I'm not sure about the strength difference between my 2 year old daughter and 4 (soon to be 5) year old son... well, no that's not true, I know my boy is stronger... My daughter on the other hand has the kind of low cunning / skill for skullduggery that would make a WH40K Ork Kommando worry... The other day, she took a plastic truck, walked up behind her brother, and smacked him over the back of the head with it...

Now I'm sure my boy had it coming for some past transgression, but I couldn't help but fight down my laughter at the entire thing... specifically when I said "Short-stack, did you just hit your brother?"

"Yes daddy." was her response in a very matter of fact tone.

[Water Bear]

Catten Hart, on 03 February 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

That whole 'stay in the kitchen' joke stopped being funny years ago. Stop that.

Since this thread somehow touched on the point, may I just say that the world needs more women doing...everything. Female gamers, female mountain bikers, females enjoying the good things in life like men always have...I tell you this right now, the sciences need way more women. I have seen several very intelligent women pass through my classes and I frankly worry about what kind of treatment they're going to get when they step into the lab or work place. I shudder a bit when I think about how my own girl friend will be treated when she takes her top shelf PhD education and walks into a work place dominated by knuckle draggers.

Oh well, screw it. No one gives 2 duck farts what I think anyway.

[Water Bear]

Dont LRM me please, on 04 February 2018 - 04:05 PM, said:

So my point is that it is silly to have females represented in the battlefield when they hardly capable of doing so and are barely represented in combat roles in any army.

Got to be careful here. Women are physically different from men, but mentally? Well, it turns out that women are just as good as men at math...and the military ain't all about shooting and explosions. Sometimes it's about computers or, as our vaunted Commander in Chief puts it, "the digital."

[Clownwarlord]

I thought from all the novels and such that pilots are suppose to be half naked.

[Water Bear]

Bombast, on 04 February 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

LMAO

[Angus McFife VI]

Koniving, on 05 February 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

I worked over time one night. She thought I was out with another woman. I lost three of my front teeth in a single punch.

She's 5'1" and I'm 6'5". My wife was never in the military.

This is the same bad argument I hear all the time. Your personal experience is not an argument. First of all, you didn't even punch back with the information you provided, and therefor you cannot determine if she is stronger or weaker than you. Second, just because 1 woman happens to be stronger than one man, that does not trump sexual dimorphism or completely dismiss the truth that humans are sexually dimorphic and therefor the vast majority of women and men are different physically and mentally.

Do some reading I know you love reading.
https://en.wikipedia...morphism#Humans
https://www.psycholo...viously-thought

And these are shoddy starter sources, if you want to get into real, undeniable stuff read some journals.

Koniving, on 05 February 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

Largely, girls have a higher pain tolerance than men. Nevermind the broke a nail joke, sure that hurts but most of the whining from that is actually the amount of time it took to grow and shape it.

This is a stupid myth. There are hundreds of studies contradictory to that study and all of them are extremely inaccurate due to the fact that they're rating pain by a 1-10 scale which is wildly subjective.

Koniving, on 05 February 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

Battletech does have a strong focus of physical and mental strength for pilots, however, so much so that I wonder how "Twitch" and various other Mechwarrior characters ever became pilots. Got to master martial arts, various fitness trainings, etc. But that's from the RPG. Some pilots though are described as so fat that only an Atlas could carry them. That's nobility and wealthy people, though. But if you can be so fat you can need a special modification to the already door-sized hatch to your mech just to get in it and STILL pilot one flawlessly, yeah strength isn't entirely necessary.

YueFei, on 04 February 2018 - 09:31 PM, said:

Upper body strength and physical endurance are mostly irrelevant for piloting fighter jets.... or mechs. I don't suppose you'd like to walk up to Kim Campbell and tell her she isn't aggressive enough? Or go to any of the relatives of Lyudmila Pavlichenko and tell them you think she was a coward?

These are plausible arguments. After much thinking and looking at the information, I'm going to take a step back and admit that women using machines such as aircraft (and mechs in this case) is fine and there is no reason to bar them from doing so if they can do it effectively.

Koniving, on 05 February 2018 - 06:42 AM, said:

I'm also proud that last week, I found out my 1 year and 4 month old daughter is quite a bit stronger than a 3 year old boy. My wife babysat some of a coworker's kids. The boy lacked the strength to open a particularly heavy push door, one that my daughter is barely even stalled by (and if I'm not careful she can rush right out of when leaving our apartment building). Was quite surprised.

Girls and boys during the early years of development do not have strength differences tied into sex until the boys hit adolescence, where they will develop significant control over their limbs way before girls do. Also, if a kid a year older than your kid is weaker, that sounds like malnutrition to be honest.

Water Bear, on 05 February 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

Got to be careful here. Women are physically different from men, but mentally? Well, it turns out that women are just as good as men at math...and the military ain't all about shooting and explosions. Sometimes it's about computers or, as our vaunted Commander in Chief puts it, "the digital."

Yes, mentally. Not in intelligence mind you, but in personality and behavioral patterns. And yes, women in many armies worldwide currently do wonders in non-combative positions.

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 05 February 2018 - 10:45 AM.