41 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 04 February 2018 - 12:37 AM, said:

I can see an Assassin rush working since they move nearly 130, but Crabs? 600 tons on the battlefield total against a bunch of slow but super well armored and armored mechs? Most a Crab does is around 36 damage usually. That's at least 2 hits to destroy any heavy's rear CT. What builds do you run on your slow mech deck? Could just be a build error causing it to be more difficult to destroy a wave of those. Remember if you're using spread weaponry such as SRMs go for the legs on the crabs rather than CT.

As an (MS) guy I can tell you that only the highest level of coordination can beat a well executed Crab rush even if all your mates are in Assaults--unless you have combat ID and know it is coming. We love to spam them in GQ and FP, and even if we lose all 12 crab to 8 Assaults in FP, we are coming out on top in terms of tonnage lost.

Edited by El Bandito, 04 February 2018 - 01:04 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

El Bandito, on 04 February 2018 - 01:00 AM, said:

As an (MS) guy I can tell you that only the highest level of coordination can beat a well executed Crab rush, even if all your mates are in Assaults--unless you have combat ID. We love to spam them in GQ and FP, and even if we lose all 12 crab to 8 Assaults in FP, we are coming out on top in terms of tonnage lost.

Guess so, I just kinda wonder how crab rushing would do against another 12 man of equal coordination. The line's hard between winning just from superior coordination and collective skill or better tactics and builds. Especially since it takes certain baselines of coordination and skill just for some tactics and builds to work.

[El Bandito]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 04 February 2018 - 01:03 AM, said:

Guess so, I just kinda wonder how crab rushing would do against another 12 man of equal coordination. The line's hard between winning just from superior coordination and collective skill or better tactics and builds. Especially since it takes certain baselines of coordination and skill just for some tactics and builds to work.

Of course, certain amount of coordination and training is required to do the crustacean dance effectively, which is why we tend to practice the tactic in QP when we train our recruits, to get them familiarized with the procedure. And Crab-27B is one of the first mechs we urge them to buy.

As for its effectiveness, (MS) is one of the better FP units there is, and we almost always beat same skill level units that run much heavier mechs in the first wave, using our Crab rush. If they do not have combat ID.

Edited by El Bandito, 04 February 2018 - 01:10 AM.

[Rayden Wolf]

El Bandito, on 03 February 2018 - 07:57 PM, said:

Thanks, was fun fight! Now this is a proper B-Day present!




I used MRM60 + 2ML Marauder-5D. All on left side, and using right side as shield.

Isnt that a bit undergunned? My Bushwhacker allready carries MRM50+4ER-Meds. My MAD uses MRM60+3LL and a XL300(works great btw).

[El Bandito]

Rayden Wolf, on 04 February 2018 - 01:43 AM, said:

Isnt that a bit undergunned? My Bushwhacker allready carries MRM50+4ER-Meds. My MAD uses MRM60+3LL and a XL300(works great btw).

It works fine in 1v1 duels. I use LFE for deadsiding with the RT. Plus I have JJs for quick turning. Of course, adding two more MLs/Flamers is completely fine.

Edited by El Bandito, 04 February 2018 - 02:08 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Rayden Wolf, on 04 February 2018 - 01:43 AM, said:

Isnt that a bit undergunned? My Bushwhacker allready carries MRM50+4ER-Meds. My MAD uses MRM60+3LL and a XL300(works great btw).

XL kinda kills it since the idea is to deadside and you're dead if you lose a side with the XL.

[Rayden Wolf]

El Bandito, on 04 February 2018 - 02:08 AM, said:

It works fine in 1v1 duels. I use LFE for deadsiding with the RT. Plus I have JJs for quick turning. Of course, adding two more MLs/Flamers is completely fine.

Well, that actually makes sence

[Alkabides]

I love the raw limitless power of the HGR. It just feels so good to hold down a button and you hear spooky music almost every release. But what I truely love about the HGR is A) it sounds like a cat hissing as it loads up, good to let your teammates who cut you off in their speedy mediums know that they're one button release from watching the match on kill cam and upon release it sounds like pouring gold coins into a pot to signify the power you just Gave birth to followed by a beautiful explosion that resembles the 4th of July when it lands. The only way this could be made cooler is if it was urban mech loadable.

[NRP]

Thanks for sharing the results of this little experiment. I was curious how it would go down.

[Curccu]

https://leaderboard....0D%0AEl+Bandito

I don't know what else to say.

[Baba Yogi]

I'm not suprised, heavy gauss is not a dps build. In quickplay though, those mechs generally can't be rushed, depending on his position on certain maps, it will completely block any attempts to peak. It's sort of an area-denial mech when you think about it.

[Curccu]

Lordhammer, on 04 February 2018 - 10:43 AM, said:

I'm not suprised, heavy gauss is not a dps build. In quickplay though, those mechs generally can't be rushed, depending on his position on certain maps, it will completely block any attempts to peak. It's sort of an area-denial mech when you think about it.

It's enough DPS to take out pretty much anything else than other annihilator pretty fast.

[Sjorpha]

Khobai, on 03 February 2018 - 07:59 PM, said:

results of 1v1 are meaningless in 12v12

No they're not actually, not at all. There is a lot of overlap between dueling and 12v12 in terms of what works. Especially for brawling but also for other playstyles.

Just because it's not a 1:1 translation doesn't mean it's not revealing. Same is true for comp play vs. casual play, it's a fallacy to say they have nothing in common when actually they have most of the game dynamics in common and the metagame isn't THAT different.

Dismissing testing and training your combat skills through dueling is to miss out on an lot of valuable information and personal improvement.

My skills have improved a lot through dueling because in duels you can isolate lessons that are harder to focus on in a 12v12 because of information overload, like for example remembering to use jumpjet tapping to spread damage, finding optimal torso twist angles for a given mech against incoming fire, protecting your remaining leg with your destroyed leg and so on.

Those skills are just as important in a 12v12 as in a duel, but the duel is where you discover the exact mistakes you're making and train to fix them.

[Sjorpha]

El Bandito, on 04 February 2018 - 01:00 AM, said:

As an (MS) guy I can tell you that only the highest level of coordination can beat a well executed Crab rush even if all your mates are in Assaults--unless you have combat ID and know it is coming. We love to spam them in GQ and FP, and even if we lose all 12 crab to 8 Assaults in FP, we are coming out on top in terms of tonnage lost.

I have yet to face your crab rushes with MJ12, very curious to see if we can beat it.

[Baba Yogi]

Curccu, on 04 February 2018 - 10:47 AM, said:

It's enough DPS to take out pretty much anything else than other annihilator pretty fast.

It has like what 4-4.2 dps each heavy gauss? For 18 tons that is low dps. You misjudge the weapon i think, its threat doesnt come from its dps, it comes from its ability to deal 50 dmg pinpoint. That alone make people nervous to peak, since if you got hit once, you'll get worried wondering whether he's a good shot. Because if he is you know you'll lose a ST. That has huge psychological impact on gameplay.

Edited by Lordhammer, 04 February 2018 - 11:14 AM.

[panzer1b]

I think that its a matter of skill difference. MRMs beating a properly piloted HGR mech is extremely doubtful at the highest skill levels since spread damage (unless its ATM levels of damage) isnt gonna come close to 50 PPFLD that cant really be evaded or spread anywhere.

Also, as was mentioned, the HGR player MISSED 3 times which is what made it possible to beat the mech. Had the HGR mech hit with EVERY shot, i think this would have gone very differently.

Really the ONLY good counter to HGR push is range, something clan mechs do well, but the problem comes with teh fact that IS can bring 12 90+ ton mechs and on some maps, it is physically impossible to engage them at longer ranges since you need to protect generators, and most maps like sulfurous or emrald make it VERY easy to stay out of a sniper range for the majority of the game, charge the gens, and just walk over anything with your 200 PPFLD (and like 300+ if you count lasers) per lance every 5 seconds. In QP its countered easily, in faction objective modes, not so much especially if its a coordinated push where your team simply lacks the DPS to bring down before its too late.

[Curccu]

Lordhammer, on 04 February 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

It has like what 4-4.2 dps each heavy gauss? For 18 tons that is low dps. You misjudge the weapon i think, its threat doesnt come from its dps, it comes from its ability to deal 50 dmg pinpoint. That alone make people nervous to peak, since if you got hit once, you'll get worried wondering whether he's a good shot. Because if he is you know you'll lose a ST. That has huge psychological impact on gameplay.

5DPS + Charge - Cooldowns.
+ 7 (ER)ML for that DPS also.

[Brizna]

Sjorpha, on 04 February 2018 - 10:58 AM, said:

I have yet to face your crab rushes with MJ12, very curious to see if we can beat it.

One word: LEGS

[Q]

Sjorpha, on 04 February 2018 - 10:58 AM, said:

I have yet to face your crab rushes with MJ12, very curious to see if we can beat it.

I think some of the challenge comes in if you know you're dropping against MS and if you know they're going to crab rush. Often times you'll have your team load deck X expecting tactic Y (because every other match runs that way) only to find out deck X does really poorly against a 100ish kph mid to short range murder ball.

And like Bandito said... they're likely to take out 6-8 mechs even if they "lose" the rush and come out ahead on tonnage.

[InvictusLee]

Curccu, on 04 February 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

https://leaderboard....0D%0AEl+Bandito

I don't know what else to say.

The good news is that I'm catching up in skill to Razen at least! lol

https://leaderboard....0D%0AEl+Bandito