1125 replies to this topic

[Requiemking]

Hmm, I don't see the LB20X slot reduction going through. I'm pretty sure part of the reason why it was kept at it's TT size is so that future PGI variants that use it can be translated directly to TT without messing with the rules much.

[Johnathan Von Tanner]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 February 2018 - 09:02 PM, said:

On the whole I like it.

Especially the Gauss-PPC changes. That community feedback saying that 2 Gauss + 1 PPC should be maintained is bad IMO.

I agree, Im sick of nerfs to any load out that requires a basic level of skill, I used to play lights as a specialty in qp. After the rescale lights have been ****(Then the SPL nerfs lol) lights are pretty useless now. I still played gauss ppc night grys tho I found it a challenge to use them effectively and poptarting is exciting. After that round of nerfs tho, I stopped playing quick play and group queue all together. And CW is as our esteemed Jarl put it. Nothing but a clan laser vomit hellscape.

Theres some really good stuff in Tarogato's work. To bad it will never happen. This whole thing is asking PGI to admit they made mistakes. And that is a non-starter as far as they are concerned

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 07 February 2018 - 09:09 PM, said:

why would I give up dual guass + 6 CERML to do dual gauss + 1 CERPPC instead?

Glad you agree PPC Gauss should have never been linked in the first place.

On a more a serious note, its a trade between longer range and front loaded damage vs raw firepower. Each will be strong but in different situations.

[Asym]

OP. No. you do not represent "us". You and the crew you invited aren't "us". Not even close. Do not recommend anything in our name because you Do Not Represent "us" at all.

Good try but you'll never find "balance" because balance isn't about what MW is about. It's about struggle between two completely different cultures fighting over the same space. It's the "Cold War" storyline and balance has nothing to do with it because there wasn't balance in the first place. Good grief. What we should be asking PGI to do is de-nerf everything and start over. Make all weapons as deadly as they were designed to be and call it a day....

No.

[Khobai]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 February 2018 - 09:20 PM, said:

Glad you agree PPC Gauss should have never been linked in the first place.

well I wanted energy draw

which wouldve still linked them.

but it wouldve linked all weapons together so there were no loopholes like laser/gauss or medium/large laser vomit

the way I see it, if were keeping ghost heat anyway, then why not just give us energy draw, which is basically the same exact thing as ghost heat, but without all the abusive loopholes

Quote

On a more a serious note, its a trade between longer range and front loaded damage vs raw firepower. Each will be strong but in different situations.

theres still absolutely no reason to use dual gauss + x1 CERPPC when I can just use dual gauss + x6 CERML instead

its not a tradeoff. its an obvious choice to me.

gauss/laser and laser vomit is still way too strong.

need 6 damage CERML and laser/gauss ghost heat linkage.

Edited by Khobai, 07 February 2018 - 09:39 PM.

[Johnathan Von Tanner]

Asym, on 07 February 2018 - 09:21 PM, said:

OP. No. you do not represent "us". You and the crew you invited aren't "us". Not even close. Do not recommend anything in our name because you Do Not Represent "us" at all.

Good try but you'll never find "balance" because balance isn't about what MW is about. It's about struggle between two completely different cultures fighting over the same space. It's the "Cold War" storyline and balance has nothing to do with it because there wasn't balance in the first place. Good grief. What we should be asking PGI to do is de-nerf everything and start over. Make all weapons as deadly as they were designed to be and call it a day....

No.

I don't know man, Hes representin me pretty well so far.

[Bombast]

Requiemking, on 07 February 2018 - 09:12 PM, said:

Hmm, I don't see the LB20X slot reduction going through. I'm pretty sure part of the reason why it was kept at it's TT size is so that future PGI variants that use it can be translated directly to TT without messing with the rules much.

In theory it would be ok - Dropping tonnage is a no go because there's an unwritten rule that mechs just can't be underweight, but the same thing doesn't apply to crits. As long as any PGI variant 'pretends' it's 11 crits and leaves an empty slot with the LB-20X (Or even in an adjacent slot, since TT has crit splitting), everything should be ok.

All the same, you're assertion is probably correct - Ain't happening.

Asym, on 07 February 2018 - 09:21 PM, said:

OP. No. you do not represent "us". You and the crew you invited aren't "us". Not even close. Do not recommend anything in our name because you Do Not Represent "us" at all.

What you see posted here represents a lot of players, particularly the 'dedicated' ones. While this may seem to be coming out of the left field for you, a lot of people were talked to about it, and more were kept in the loop and gave feed back over it.

So how about you don't try to represent us by saying they don't represent us. And then lets stop because we've entered an endless loop.

Edited by Bombast, 07 February 2018 - 09:35 PM.

[Cy Mitchell]

I read with interest the comments about UACs receiving Jam chance reduction and Jam duration reduction. However, I see nothing in the comments nor on the the spreadsheet about lower Jam chances for any of the UACs. IMO UAC jam chances should be reduced to around 12%. I have suggested several times that if boated UACs are too much of an issue then a Ghost Jam mechanic can be introduced for multiple equipped UAC that would increase the likelihood of jams dependent on the number of UACs equipped.

The balancing of ballistic ammo amounts is good. I truly hope that other non-boated ballistics, besides the Gauss, will become a viable choice again. They have not been since Nov of 2016 due to the jam chance increase and jam duration increase which were aimed at stopping ballistic boating. As it tuned out, it killed the builds that used one or two UACs while the boats stayed just as strong until they were targeted with the mobility nerfs which finally knocked them down.

I feel that Heavy medium and large lasers need their damage reduced more than proposed here. I have suggested 8 damage for medium and 15 damage for large with everything else remaining the same.Their damage output is simply too high at the moment and the introduction of the heavy laser and dual enhanced cool shots is what created the Frankenstein monster Clan laser vomit that we have now. Clan er medium laser should see a reduction in damage to 6. Only moves like this will rein in Clan laser vomit somewhat but still leave it strong.

I agree that the ghost heat trigger limits on micro lasers need to be raised.

I agree that ghost heat trigger limits on Light PPC and Light Gauss should be raised.

All the other Ghost Heat limits I feel are fine as they currently stand.

I do not or very rarely use missiles so I will refrain from commenting on them.

The summary documents is filled with a lot of "buff". Too many buffs will not be good for the game. I hope our comp players will remember that not everyone wants each match to be over in 3 minutes so you can finish the best of 5 matches as quickly as possible and move on. Yes, I am one of those that wants TTK to remain at a level that simulates huge, heavily armored, highly durable machines fighting it out on a battlefield.

Those are my comments and suggestions for now. Thanks for the opportunity to voice my opinion on the matter. And thank you to those who are putting in the work to try to improve the game.

Edited by Rampage, 08 February 2018 - 12:58 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 07 February 2018 - 09:22 PM, said:

theres still absolutely no reason to use dual gauss + x1 CERPPC when I can just use dual gauss + x6 CERML instead

its not a tradeoff. its an obvious choice to me.

gauss/laser and laser vomit is way still too strong.

need 6 damage CERML and laser/gauss ghost heat linkage.

Well, you are right in that there is no choice, but thats because there is no mech where these are actually your options.

Night Gyr is either 3 eRML and HLL and 2 Gauss or 1 ER PPC and 2 Gauss. The Night Gyr has trash mobility and is really only good for hopping up and down, so on THAT mech, 2 Gauss and 1 ER PPC is probably the better option.

When you look at assaults, they are all 2 ER LL and 4-6 ERML typically which is WAY better than 2 Gauss and 1 ER PPC. More comparable to 2 Gauss 2 ERPPC, but that isn't even on the table here.

Now if some day we get another Clan mech where you have the option of dual gauss and 6 ERML and dual gauss and 1 ER PPC I would have to look at the rest of the mech's attributes to see how those too would stack up.

Also, 6 ERML would require a greater tonnage investment in DHS than a single ER PPC, which really can get by with 10 DHS. 6 ERML you want like 17 i think.

AT A BARE MINIMUM: Give us 2 PPC + Single Gauss combinations back.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 07 February 2018 - 09:43 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

When you look at assaults, they are all 2 ER LL and 4-6 ERML typically which is WAY better than 2 Gauss and 1 ER PPC. More comparable to 2 Gauss 2 ERPPC, but that isn't even on the table here.

that was my whole point

that laser vomit is still way too good

if gauss/lasers had ghost heat linkage then there might be a reason to consider dual gauss+cerppc

because ghost heat would prohibit you from be able to use dual gauss+6-8 lasers

gauss/laser certainly needs ghost heat linkage. medium and large lasers might need ghost heat linkage too. I dunno. but I do know laser vomit is still going to reign supreme if its not directly addressed.

both laser vomit and laser/gauss need to be kicked in the nuts

Edited by Khobai, 07 February 2018 - 09:48 PM.

[ramp4ge]

Way back in the days of NavyField, we played a horribly balanced game. The company running it had no idea what they were doing and they just shoved off on us whatever they shoved onto the Korean community despite the clients being very different.

Then, one day, they got sick of all of our whining and basically said "If you think you can do a better job..."

Basically, they allowed a "council" of experienced veteran players access to a special test server where they could suggest balance changes and the devs would actually listen.

The result was so successful that they used the same balance changes on their other servers too.

And then they released submarines and told us we couldn't do anything with them and killed their game.

But for a little while, it was fantastic.

[PocketYoda]

Khobai, on 07 February 2018 - 08:10 PM, said:

IS streaks do 50% more dps, have better velocity, access to better missile quirks and missile mechs, and better crit health. and 90m less range

that seems fair to me for weighing 50% more


for the most part the IS vs Clan balance seems okay on missile weapons.

And get you cored by the time they lock on to anything...

Asym, on 07 February 2018 - 09:21 PM, said:

OP. No. you do not represent "us". You and the crew you invited aren't "us". Not even close. Do not recommend anything in our name because you Do Not Represent "us" at all.

Good try but you'll never find "balance" because balance isn't about what MW is about. It's about struggle between two completely different cultures fighting over the same space. It's the "Cold War" storyline and balance has nothing to do with it because there wasn't balance in the first place. Good grief. What we should be asking PGI to do is de-nerf everything and start over. Make all weapons as deadly as they were designed to be and call it a day....

No.

These are the people that are at an advantage and don't want it changed.. They like the w1nn1ing every match and making the game more equal would ruin the game for these "types"

Do not listen to these people..

Edited by Samial, 07 February 2018 - 09:48 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 07 February 2018 - 09:44 PM, said:

that was my whole point

that laser vomit is still way too good

if gauss/lasers had ghost heat linkage then there might be a reason to consider dual gauss+cerppc

because ghost heat would prohibit you from be able to use dual gauss+6-8 lasers

gauss/laser certainly needs ghost heat linkage. medium and large lasers might need ghost heat linkage too. I dunno. but I do know laser vomit is still going to reign supreme if its not directly addressed.

both laser vomit and laser/gauss need to be kicked in the nuts

The problem with that is that there is no real reason to run an assault unless you want to only run autocannons. That ******* sucks.

[Khobai]

Quote

And get you cored by the time they lock on to anything...

ive never been cored that fast by a light, at least not through the front.

and streaks should really only be used for killing lights

theyre not good at killing any of the mechs that can core you in one hit

and theyre probably too good at killing lights

streaks are definitely a messed up weapon lol

streaks could stand be weaker vs lights and stronger vs heavies/assaults. and theres been some good suggestions for how to do that.

Quote

The problem with that is that there is no real reason to run an assault unless you want to only run autocannons. That ******* sucks.

thats mostly true lol

I mean deathstrike is an exception though for laser/gauss

but yeah a lot of assaults are in a bad place right now

and even on the autocannon assaults like the MCII-B, the clan UACs jamming every other time you fire them is BS

UACs shouldnt even jam. its a bad game mechanic. UACs dont need to be RNG lottery weapons in order to be effective.

Edited by Khobai, 07 February 2018 - 09:58 PM.

[Nighthawk513]

My biggest issues are that the C-ERPPC is still at 5 second cooldown, which leaves the IS ERPPC better.
The IS LPL has a .67 burn time (at least, on a fully skilled thunderbolt). At 11 damage a shot and a 3 shot gh limit, that means 33 damage out to midrange with 0 gh that's basically impossible to twist, with 55 damage burns possible. That's 55 damage where you have about .5 seconds after ping to twist. Assuming a .2 second reaction speed, that's still about 30 damage delivered before they can even start twisting. After twist speed is taken into account, almost all that damage will end up on the component you put it on. Increasing the burn time a bit would help, but I don't think we can have afford to have 11 damage LPLs with that low of a burn time.
CLPL max range could be a little longer, as the 735 is a bit arbitrary, when 785 is basically 50% extra after max. I'm sure there is decent reasoning for that. Just like the 33% after optimal max on the CMPL...

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 07 February 2018 - 09:49 PM, said:

ive never been cored that fast by a light

and streaks should really only be used for killing lights

theyre not good at killing anything that can core you in one hit



thats mostly true lol

I mean deathstrike is an exception though

but yeah a lot of assaults are in a bad place right now

Deathstrike/MCII-1, Dire Wolf, Supernova, Marauder IIC, Executioner are all only viable (if that) due to high alpha laser vomit type loadouts. Marauder IIC has a nice 3 UAC5 2 ERPPC build I suppose but not that many people dig that for whatever reason.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Dropping the Clan AC5's projectile count to 1 will make it better than the IS version in every way. Smaller, lighter, and better range. There needs to be a tradeoff there.

And I don't like what you're proposing with UAC cooldowns and jamming. Increasing base cooldown would double-tapping mandatory unless the target is about to break LOS.

I'd go the opposite direction, and make the jam chance on double-taps 100%, but drastically decrease the jamming time so that double-tapping provides the same long-term DPS as standard shots. Basically, the third shot of a UAC5 always comes out at the same time, whether you double-tap the second shot or not.

[Muthatrucka]

It all looks pretty good.
On the MRM front I would suggest a slight lowering of the Heat on all launchers and lower reload times OR a change to Ghost heat to allow another 10 or 20 launcher to be fired, to bring them up to par with other Vomits. I think the actual Spread is fine for how they are used.

[Johnathan Von Tanner]

Muthatrucka, on 07 February 2018 - 09:54 PM, said:

It all looks pretty good.
On the MRM front I would suggest a slight lowering of the Heat on all launchers and lower reload times OR a change to Ghost heat to allow another 10 or 20 launcher to be fired, to bring them up to par with other Vomits. I think the actual Spread is fine for how they are used.

MRM spread is really what holds that weapon system back. I ended up in a dual with an IV-4 mrm 80 today in a ebj- 2 lpl-6erml in the tunnel on river city dom. I won the dual despite my massive heat. ANY other weapon system and I would have lost, I was able to spread his damage so much even at point blank my pin point won out in the end.

[visionGT4]

Asym, on 07 February 2018 - 09:21 PM, said:

OP. No. you do not represent "us". You and the crew you invited aren't "us". Not even close. Do not recommend anything in our name because you Do Not Represent "us" at all.

Good try but you'll never find "balance" because balance isn't about what MW is about. It's about struggle between two completely different cultures fighting over the same space. It's the "Cold War" storyline and balance has nothing to do with it because there wasn't balance in the first place. Good grief. What we should be asking PGI to do is de-nerf everything and start over. Make all weapons as deadly as they were designed to be and call it a day....

No.

lol wut the clam invasion period is more op eagle claw & urgent fury. All the toys doesn't help with incompetent planning and execution, actually... you are right it is just like the cold war

~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~
nice work OP and crew! lets see if PGI can get over themselves and take the feedback on board