14 replies to this topic

[Yumoshiri]

Greetings all,
with the Piranha and Myst lynxes few months ago bringing new life to machine gun boating. I'm curious about your opinion on Heavy Machine guns and light mechs. The main discussion would be on normal MG's versus heavy MG's.

The facts as I gathered from Smurfy:
40% more damage on a HMG
30% more range on a MG
100% more ammo on a MG / ton
100% more tonnage in cost for HMG.
MG does 40% more damage per ton of ammo


What about the spread and crit chances?
Spread data from ingame februari 2018:
C-mg: 0.84
c-hmg: 1.3
mg: 0.6
hmg: 1

So compared to HMG's, normal MG's have 40% less spread.

HMG's seem very situational - so for who are they really intended to be used?

My initial gut feeling is that MG's are preferable in most scenario's. Especially when boating MG's.
HMG's are superior when tonnage is not a problem, and when you have less ballistic hard points. Preferably fast light/medium mechs with 2-4 ballistic hard points and tonnage surplus, that want to destroy components with backup HMG's.

Edited by Yumoshiri, 14 February 2018 - 02:00 AM.

[Curccu]

Lights and HMGs... NOPE! Most of the lights don't have enough tonnage to use those well because heavy + poor ammo/ton, Fury might be ok.

Only mech I have enjoyed with HMGs so far is the Arrow with 6xHMG and 3xMPL and usually in group queue 5+ of those.

giving more ammo/t would help HMGs a lot.

Edited by Curccu, 08 February 2018 - 02:29 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

HMGs are entirely useless, especially on lights. HMGs have equal or lower crit damage than MGs due to having lower crit rates. HMGs also have such short range that you'll rarely be in optimal range, and getting into optimal range puts you in too much danger to work out well. Then once you finally get in there you run out of ammo because reasons.

Basically basic MGs are the best option, then LMGs are good if you want a bit more range at the cost of damage, great for players who notice they aren't staying in optimal range for regular MGs.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

HMGs are only good if you're going to be closing into slappyfight range anyway.

IMO they should really just give HMGs the same range bracket as MGs. The fact that they're twice as heavy and carry half as much ammo per ton is enough of a limitation already without saddling them with such a ridiculously short effective range as well.

[chucklesMuch]

All IS mgs need a buff (or quirks) offset clan mg boats (hardpoints & weight difference)

HMG's for both is and clan need ammo buff

[InvictusLee]

i use LMGs almost elusively because of the range bonus, which is just about the same as a medium laser.

[SeventhSL]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 08 February 2018 - 04:53 PM, said:

HMGs are only good if you're going to be closing into slappyfight range anyway.

IMO they should really just give HMGs the same range bracket as MGs. The fact that they're twice as heavy and carry half as much ammo per ton is enough of a limitation already without saddling them with such a ridiculously short effective range as well.

I've thought this myself many times. If they did give them the same range then normal MG is still better if you have hardpoints and slots to mount them but at least HMG would be an option.

[PocketYoda]

HMG are garbage like most everything else in game..

[stealthraccoon]

I’m onboard with HMG range being equal to regular MG - at twice the weight, half the ammo and only 40% more damage, seems balanced.

Also V series LCT’s should each get 2 more ballistic points - a 6 MG LCT would be fun.

[panzer1b]

Pretty much in the current game, its a choice between the MG and LMG, with teh HMG being relegated to troll or purely fun builds, none of which are all that competitive. Thing is, if you have less then 4 ballistic hardpoints, ANY MG is a waste of time (damage is pitiful even against open mechs with but 1-3 of them), and if you have 4 or more, MGs or LMGs are gonna be a much better bang for the weight.

MGs are best for assasination mechs, ones that rush in and kill the target asap, while LMGs are better as a aux weapon or a secondary for mechs that want to play mid range but have enuff ballistics to use em effectively. OFC if your light mech has ranged weapons such as ERMLs, LMGs are a far safer bet since you can have almost as much lethality as MGs, but you dont need to get close to use it. If the mech is slow, LMGs are a must since you may not be able to even get in range, and less damage is better then no damage.

HMGs need to be buffed to MG range and they will be perfect. The spread keeps the damage from being as useful past 100m anyway, and the DPS still isnt worth the double tonnage (40% dmg boost, 100% tonnage penalty).

[ramp4ge]

What caliber are the MG rounds? If they're 12.7mm then the rounds should only weigh about 0.25 pounds each. A ton of ammo should be like 8,000 rounds...

[Khobai]

Quote

All IS mgs need a buff (or quirks) offset clan mg boats (hardpoints & weight difference)

only the IS HMG needs a buff

the other IS MGs are fine

they get better spread, better crit chance, and better crit health. thats all 0.25 tons is worth.

but both the C HMG and especially the IS HMG need major buffs

Quote

What caliber are the MG rounds? If they're 12.7mm then the rounds should only weigh about 0.25 pounds each. A ton of ammo should be like 8,000 rounds...

30mm at least

the gun weighs a half ton

Edited by Khobai, 14 February 2018 - 02:16 AM.

[Yumoshiri]

Thank you all. Added the spread data. Everything seems to favor regular machine guns. I can't find the crit-data but I remember the numbers favoring normal MG's.

I still think HMG's may have a role in brawls - I'm not sure increasing their range makes them any more viable, for their horrible spread you already want to move in close.

Most agreed that when boating, normal MG's are favored.
With fewer hard points, less than 4 -- would you lean more towards HMG?

[Yumoshiri]

Personal suggestion:

The status: of HMG
100% extra tonnage cost (ammo+weapon)
40% damage
-30% range
+67% more spread
Less crit chance

What it needs to make them viable would be that they offer something that normal MG's don't do better. Personally, having double heavy machine gun arrays taking up a single ballistic hard point, while keeping all the current stats could be an idea. This also allows some IS mechs to boat to a devastating level, like the arrow. My argument against it is that it makes no sense to not also have MG arrays too. That would again kill the purpose for HMG's.

[Jackal Noble]

Khobai, on 09 February 2018 - 05:08 PM, said:

only the IS HMG needs a buff

the other IS MGs are fine

they get better spread, better crit chance, and better crit health. thats all 0.25 tons is worth.

but both the C HMG and especially the IS HMG need major buffs



30mm at least

the gun weighs a half ton

Well that's pretty pathetic to only be able to shoot about 100m (300ft) away.