251 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 13 February 2018 - 01:42 PM, said:

they want higher skill ceiling

I don't seen anything wrong with that.

Unfortunately, though, some of those same people seem to go bananas whenever "convergence" is mentioned. something which also raises the skill ceiling. What's up with that?

People act as we we did not originally have delayed convergence, but that PGI just was not capable of implementing it correctly.

Edited by Mystere, 13 February 2018 - 02:56 PM.

[Nightbird]

Gauss PPC counters Laser vomit, Laser vomit counters Brawl, Brawl counters Gauss PPC... good thing we don't have Gauss PPC, long live laser vomit!

[Gas Guzzler]

Nightbird, on 13 February 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

Gauss PPC counters Laser vomit, Laser vomit counters Brawl, Brawl counters Gauss PPC... good thing we don't have Gauss PPC, long live laser vomit!

"B-b-b-b-but at least you can twist off laser vomit, Gauss PPC is instant single component damage!!! It will ruin the game again!!!"

Mystere, on 13 February 2018 - 02:53 PM, said:

I don't seen anything wrong with that.

Unfortunately, though, some of those same people seem to go bananas whenever "convergence" is mentioned. something which also raises the skill ceiling. What's up with that?

People act as we we did not originally have delayed convergence, but that PGI just was not capable of implementing it correctly.

Maybe because convergence doesn't really raise the skill ceiling? It just makes it easier to spread damage, in other words, lowers the skill ceiling lol.

[Metus regem]

Nightbird, on 13 February 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

Gauss PPC counters Laser vomit, Laser vomit counters Brawl, Brawl counters Gauss PPC... good thing we don't have Gauss PPC, long live laser vomit!

Give it 6 months and it'll shift again back to FLD weapons....

I'm still waiting for LRM's to be the T1 meta, now that will be amusing....

[Alex Morgaine]

Could be a reason to give lgr use by taking them off the pool for charge limit and spooky heat entirely. Is there even an instance where 3LGR with charge as is but able to fire all 3( with or without ppcs) at least comparable to 2Gauss? I know a few Mechs that could support 2ppc/3LGR weight and space wise...

For clan, i don't know.... If they could create spooky heat limit instances for 2cerppcx1gauss, or 2gauss 1erppc, but not 2gauss 2 erppc and 3ERPPC, would that be manageable? Would 3 erppc be that brown on either faction tech?

[FupDup]

Nightbird, on 13 February 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

Gauss PPC counters Laser vomit, Laser vomit counters Brawl, Brawl counters Gauss PPC... good thing we don't have Gauss PPC, long live laser vomit!

MWO isn't that simple. For example, brawl absolutely crushes laser vomit if they get into position without getting shot too much. Likewise, GaussPPC in a firing line can definitely rip apart brawlers before they get close. And hell, laser vomit can be a decent way to shoot at a poptart when they pop up, while velocity weapons probably won't reach them before they are already back behind safe cover.

[JohnnyWayne]

Coming late to the party I have to say the same as in the original balance thread. Mechs that use this kind of loadout usually dont Jump Jet and poptart with little exposure time. Stepping forth and back again behind a rock in an assault mech with the current agility settings takes a full laser volley.

Some mechs as the Marauder IIC have been defined by that loadout. So I see two options.

1. Allow this combination without limitation on certain mechs as quirk.
2. Allow this combination on any mech that does not use a jump jet at the same time. Jump jetting? Boom ghost heat.

I am all for diversity and PPC+Gauss combs were a part of that. I want brawlers, snipers, strikers and all the between. What I dont want is ****** LRM boats to be honest. Id perfer a complete rework of LRMs as it was necessary for a long time.

[Mystere]

Gas Guzzler, on 13 February 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

Maybe because convergence doesn't really raise the skill ceiling? It just makes it easier to spread damage, in other words, lowers the skill ceiling lol.

WUT?!!!





Placing your target inside your weapons' sweet spot is lowering the skill ceiling?

[YueFei]

Mystere, on 13 February 2018 - 04:14 PM, said:

WUT?!!!





Placing your target inside your weapons' sweet spot is lowering the skill ceiling?

I dunno why you keep making a big deal out of this picture.

The real skill of aerial gunnery in WW2 was deflection shooting, something systematically trained into the US pilots and Finnish pilots.

Other airforces of the time of course also told their pilots to do it, or maneuver to reduce deflection, but none with the kind of extensive hands-on training with towed aerial targets and deflection shooting that the US and Finnish airforces emphasized.

The result of this was that you had a small number of amazing shooters in the other airforces who could pull off deflection gunnery, on some instinctual level, but not a systematized institutional way to train all of its pilots to do the same. You had some Experten who could do it, and a bunch of other pilots who couldn't shoot and hit anywhere near as effectively. And those Experten couldn't explain it in words to their comrades how to shoot, no more so than you can use words alone to teach someone how to ride a bike, and must put them on a bike and have them learn it themselves.

Speaking of which, what's the important skill of using non-hitscan weapons like PPC/Gauss? Yeah: deflection shooting.

[Khobai]

Quote

Gauss PPC counters Laser vomit, Laser vomit counters Brawl, Brawl counters Gauss PPC... good thing we don't have Gauss PPC, long live laser vomit!

turning the game into a glorified version of rock paper scissors is not how you make it fun. You shouldnt have to require a specific build to counter a specific other build.

when was the last time anyone ever had fun playing rock paper scissors? never.

its also kindve misguided... because brawling should counter EVERYTHING if you get into brawling range. Brawling is high risk so it needs equally high reward.

But with all the nerfed small lasers, nerfed autocannons, ridiculous ghost heat limits, min ranges/damage deadzones, brawling just isnt as scary as it actually should be.

Edited by Khobai, 13 February 2018 - 06:30 PM.

[Mystere]

YueFei, on 13 February 2018 - 04:41 PM, said:

I dunno why you keep making a big deal out of this picture.

The real skill of aerial gunnery in WW2 was deflection shooting, something systematically trained into the US pilots and Finnish pilots.

Other airforces of the time of course also told their pilots to do it, or maneuver to reduce deflection, but none with the kind of extensive hands-on training with towed aerial targets and deflection shooting that the US and Finnish airforces emphasized.

The result of this was that you had a small number of amazing shooters in the other airforces who could pull off deflection gunnery, on some instinctual level, but not a systematized institutional way to train all of its pilots to do the same. You had some Experten who could do it, and a bunch of other pilots who couldn't shoot and hit anywhere near as effectively. And those Experten couldn't explain it in words to their comrades how to shoot, no more so than you can use words alone to teach someone how to ride a bike, and must put them on a bike and have them learn it themselves.

Speaking of which, what's the important skill of using non-hitscan weapons like PPC/Gauss? Yeah: deflection shooting.

My point precisely, especially with regard to raising the skill ceiling.

Edited by Mystere, 13 February 2018 - 06:20 PM.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 13 February 2018 - 02:48 PM, said:

In his defense, there have actually been some people on the forum who want to the TTK to be lower (faster kills) rather than just preserving the current TTK as it is now, and that's a pretty important distinction to make. Someone in particular suggested to cut it in half across the board.

Don't defend Khobai. We don't need more minimally viable responses.

The only time TTK looks like garbage is when you have no battlefield awareness. It's akin to walking into a construction area and not paying attention to what you're walking into. Some people really are that bad with this and don't consider any form of logic for traveling from point A to B. It's sad really.

Edited by Deathlike, 13 February 2018 - 07:22 PM.