22 replies to this topic

[ramp4ge]

Current build:

SHC-A

Couple of choices I have.

1) Leave it alone. It does work really well as-is.



2) Swap out the ATM-6s for ATM-9s, drop the arms down to ER Smalls. Only problem is you're still limited on ammo. Cougar does this a lot better.

3) ???

Interested in your opinions.

And yes, I know it doesn't have ECM. I actually find it easier to be sneaky without ECM. When I see an ECM tag on a mech it becomes a primary target.

[LowSubmarino]

Shadowcat build, with no ecm, no mask, waiting way back in the team with a fast, agile hunter?

This is not how you play a shadowcat. You are playing completly against its major strengths.

Take an assault if you play like that. You dont play a shadowcat like that. You just dont.

[ramp4ge]

oneda, on 12 February 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

Shadowcat build, with no ecm, no mask, waiting way back in the team with a fast, agile hunter?

This is not how you play a shadowcat. You are playing completly against its major strengths.

Take an assault if you play like that. You dont play a shadowcat like that. You just dont.

But I did. And it works.

If it's dumb but it works it's not dumb.

Most successful Shadow Cat builds I see are sniping with ER LLs. Not seeing how this is any different.

Edited by ramp4ge, 12 February 2018 - 03:14 PM.

[ANOM O MECH]

I have seen situations in CW where an lrm Shadow Cat can get up high and be somewhat useful.

Think though that atm builds are better off on the two 50 tonners available due to how well they perform that role.

[Exilyth]

You could switch to SHC-B arms and use 4xATM3 - that would run a bit hotter but give you 1 ton for more ammo or a DHS.

Other that that, I'd rather use SRM & ER-MLs, but that's personal preferance.

[LowSubmarino]

Sure it works. But youre not getting the most out of your mech. Quite the contrary.

Especially an incredibly versatile and speedy mech such as the shadowcat, gives you the opportunity to provide yourself with a lot more damage and firing opportunities than many other mechs. Than most other mechs. Specialyl with ecm. You arent using any of those strenghts though. You give away your speed and the opportunites to decimate them early, by taking out a light or two even or hammer them when they are appraoching the most used stating areas.

instead, you run around even slower than most heavies, just waiting, letting all those opportunites pass you by. Runnign that slow, in the back, you could have easily taken a heavy or assault. By the time you reach the frontline with everybody else, you would have had more firepower in a heavy or assault. And the chance to inflict dmg via your mobility and ability to reach the enemy from multiple angles and elevations when they dont expect it, was given away.

As I said. Thats not how you play an agile skirmisher. You played it like an assault.

Edited by oneda, 12 February 2018 - 03:30 PM.

[ramp4ge]

oneda, on 12 February 2018 - 03:29 PM, said:

As I said. Thats not how you play an agile skirmisher. You played it like an assault.

An assault that can reposition at 117kph?

That's exactly what I did, if you watch the video. At no time was I "in the back". I even got in the middle of a light furball and came out of that with an Atlas kill a few seconds later. Part of the flexibility - and one of the reasons I enjoy this over my beloved Cougar - is that agility and speed and ability to be where it's needed at a moment's notice. That capability is not being squandered at all and that's one of the things that make it such an amazing skirmisher. ATMs aren't a detriment to that at all. They give it a massive amount of firepower at the mid-range, and you have the agility to put that firepower where the team needs it at any particular moment.

[ramp4ge]

Exilyth, on 12 February 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

You could switch to SHC-B arms and use 4xATM3 - that would run a bit hotter but give you 1 ton for more ammo or a DHS.

Other that that, I'd rather use SRM & ER-MLs, but that's personal preferance.

That'd work, but that'd still give me the same 12 missile salvo and would put half of that firepower out on the weaker arms. Ammo's not an issue with the ATM6s, though I know the ATM3s have a tighter grouping.

[The6thMessenger]

Wrong hardpoints, you can actually achieve 3x ERML + 2x ATM6 + ECM.

[ramp4ge]

The6thMessenger, on 12 February 2018 - 03:55 PM, said:

Wrong hardpoints, you can actually achieve 3x ERML + 2x ATM6 + ECM.

Awesome. That's a great idea. Going to try that.

[Brauer]

ramp4ge, on 12 February 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

That'd work, but that'd still give me the same 12 missile salvo and would put half of that firepower out on the weaker arms. Ammo's not an issue with the ATM6s, though I know the ATM3s have a tighter grouping.

I'd probably run ATM9s if I put a build like that together. I've never really been a good fit with the SHC, and didn't watch much of the video, so I can't speak to how you played it. I run a 2xATM9 + ERSML (can't remember the number of lasers) Arctic Wolf and I think I run a ton or half a ton less ammo than you. It's a fun build, I stick to the outskirts of the fight, and often get ignored while I pump out missiles between 200 and 300m.

[ramp4ge]

I run a 2x ATM9 2x MPL Cougar and it's one of the most fun mechs I've ever played, I just wished it was a little faster, which is why I like the idea of the SHC, plus it's a smaller target from the front and a whole lot tankier than the Cougar.

I can fit ATM9s on the SHC even with the MPLs (Which I really, really like) but that severely limits the ammo. Cougar's just got so much load-carrying capability for a light it's almost unreal. I guess it's hard to match that.

[Brauer]

ramp4ge, on 12 February 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

I run a 2x ATM9 2x MPL Cougar and it's one of the most fun mechs I've ever played, I just wished it was a little faster, which is why I like the idea of the SHC, plus it's a smaller target from the front and a whole lot tankier than the Cougar.

I can fit ATM9s on the SHC even with the MPLs (Which I really, really like) but that severely limits the ammo. Cougar's just got so much load-carrying capability for a light it's almost unreal. I guess it's hard to match that.

Having a small amount of ammo is rough, with my ACW I pretty much never fire the ATMs outside of 400-500m, and 500m is really stretching it. I try to make the ATMs count as much as possible since I have so few. With my NCT-B on the other hand I'll let em loose at fairly long range if I know the lock will hold.

[Ryokens leap]

OP, if you want to the use lock-on missiles streaks are best. They are light enough to bring all the electronic goodies plus back-up energy weapons and they won't get eaten up by AMS like ATMs do.

[Trenchbird]

I'd rather run ERLLs, LPLs, or ERPPCs and have ATMs as backup rather than the other way around. I feel it uses the machine's mobility more effectively.

[Kin3ticX]

not the best way to run a SHC, not even close, but whatever floats ur boat

[cougurt]

just some advice i have for you after watching your videos:

1. try not to fire your ATMs much if at all past ~300 meters. it kind of goes against their intended nature of being a flexible multi-purpose weapon, but ATMs only really shine in their maximum damage range of 120-270 meters, and you need to make your shots count given the fairly low amount of ammo per ton that they get.

2. be sure to hold your locks long enough for your missiles to reach their target. sometimes you may need to drop your lock in order to get back into cover, but i noticed you unnecessarily wasting a lot of ammo to this.

3. if you have jump jets, use them aggressively to get shots in and to ensure that your missiles have a clear flight path. they are extremely nice to have when using ATMs.

4. equip artemis if you haven't already. even though ATMs and streaks don't specifically benefit from it, it will improve your lock on speed without taking up any additional tonnage or slots (assuming you don't have LRMs or non-streak SRMs equipped as well).

[ramp4ge]

I was under the impression that ATMs had Artemis built into them and that Artemis didn't effect them?

Also, I wasn't aware you needed to maintain the lock after the missiles were away. They aren't fire-and-forget?

But yeah, the target decay will get better when I get more nodes on it. I've only got 21 nodes.

[Yosharian]

ECM isn't so important to an ATM build that you desperately need it to the point where you pick a Shadowcat over a Huntsman, for example. The Huntsman has incredible pod space, good hardpoints and a decent jumpjet distance. It is a far better ATM platform than the Shadowcat.

The Shadowcat just doesn't have the pod space to effectively use ATMs competitively. Huntsman has 8 tons more pod space than it, that's an insane advantage.

Edited by Yosharian, 12 February 2018 - 08:01 PM.

[cougurt]

ramp4ge, on 12 February 2018 - 07:37 PM, said:

I was under the impression that ATMs had Artemis built into them and that Artemis didn't effect them?

they do, but it's effectively just lore fluff with no real bearing on how they function. so while they can't technically be upgraded with artemis, you will still benefit from faster locks by equipping it.

ramp4ge, on 12 February 2018 - 07:37 PM, said:

Also, I wasn't aware you needed to maintain the lock after the missiles were away. They aren't fire-and-forget?

nope, gotta hold the lock until they connect with the enemy.

Yosharian, on 12 February 2018 - 07:58 PM, said:

ECM isn't so important to an ATM build that you desperately need it to the point where you pick a Shadowcat over a Huntsman, for example. The Huntsman has incredible pod space, good hardpoints and a decent jumpjet distance. It is a far better ATM platform than the Shadowcat.

The Shadowcat just doesn't have the pod space to effectively use ATMs competitively. Huntsman has 8 tons more pod space than it, that's an insane advantage.

i also second the huntsman as a great ATM carrier. it has good jump jets, decent speed, and enough tonnage to comfortably fit 3 ATM 9s (the maximum you can fire without ghost heat), or 2 ATM 12s if you want to free up an extra ton.

i'm running something like this on mine:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...827e9f3e6c6158a

it's pretty hot, but as long as you have some trigger discipline it's manageable. the optimal range on the heavy smalls matches up perfectly with the minimum range of the ATMs, so they allow for a decent punch when somebody gets too close, or for when you need that little extra burst of damage.