83 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

RoadblockXL, on 16 February 2018 - 09:53 AM, said:

Back on topic of Annihilators, I run mine with 2xHGauss and 2xSnub-Nose PPC for max pinpoint damage.

I've tried boating lasers with the HGauss but I didn't like the added face-time.

MLs don't really add noticeable face time though. HGR charge is what, 0.75 second? ML has 0.9 second duration so you are only adding 0.15 second.

[Grus]

Hit the Deck, on 15 February 2018 - 07:25 PM, said:

What's your optimal build?

I currently use 2HGauss+6ML because it's cool enough. Later when the 'mech is fully skilled up, I would consider swapping the 6x MLs with 6x ERMLs or 6x MPLs but those could require that I put my points into heat nodes, i.e. they require a different set of builds than the first.

BTW the existance of the -1X variant seriously questions the purpose of HGauss Fafnirs (which would need serious set of quirks).


PS: I feel that this 'mech is funner to play than the GaussVomit MCII-1.

I think the faf will be fine. Cone to weapon placement on each mech ani is really low slung and the faf will be at cockpit level. So hill humping will be easier.

[Hit the Deck]

RoadblockXL, on 16 February 2018 - 09:53 AM, said:

Back on topic of Annihilators, I run mine with 2xHGauss and 2xSnub-Nose PPC for max pinpoint damage.

I've tried boating lasers with the HGauss but I didn't like the added face-time.

This actually can work if you are careful not to trigger GH.

Thanks, I haven't thought of it before.

Grus, on 16 February 2018 - 10:07 AM, said:

I think the faf will be fine. Cone to weapon placement on each mech ani is really low slung and the faf will be at cockpit level. So hill humping will be easier.

Hill humping is more suited to regular GaussVomit mechs because of the range they operate at. HGauss vomit mechs are slow and short ranged-ish, but we will see.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 16 February 2018 - 10:28 AM.

[RoadblockXL]

El Bandito, on 16 February 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

MLs don't really add noticeable face time though. HGR charge is what, 0.75 second? ML has 0.9 second duration so you are only adding 0.15 second.

My usual strategy is to sit at a cover, charge up the HGauss, then round the corner to shoot. I then fire the PPCs between torso twists while I backup. With skill tree bonuses you can hold the charge for a few seconds, which is enough time to find a target. So, adding lasers would increase the face time in my case. With all the heavy lasers out their, it only takes a moment of standing still to lose all your armor in a section and I find that being free to twist the damage increases my survival noticeably.

Hit the Deck, on 16 February 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

This actually can work if you are careful not to trigger GH.

Even if I do trigger ghost heat, It only brings me to 60%, I think. And then I just stop firing the PPCs for a bit while still using the HGauss since they don't really produce heat.

Edited by RoadblockXL, 16 February 2018 - 12:00 PM.

[Throe]

Kubernetes, on 15 February 2018 - 07:30 PM, said:

I prefer my dualies on my Sleipnir, but the Anni is great too.

Get your fun in before this setup gets nerfed. Dual HGauss is by far the most fun build in the game right now, which means PGI will put a stop to it soon.

Probably with a Ghost Heat modifier on the HGauss of like 1000% for the second HGauss fired simultaneously...

[Luminis]

Kubernetes, on 15 February 2018 - 07:30 PM, said:

Get your fun in before this setup gets nerfed. Dual HGauss is by far the most fun build in the game right now, which means PGI will put a stop to it soon.

The second they do, I'll drop this game for good. Gonna get myself perma-banned just to make I sure I never come back.

[Aiden Skye]

I really wish people would stop clamoring for more nerfs. It's just never ending!

[Khobai]

Hit the Deck, on 16 February 2018 - 03:53 AM, said:

As for AC/20 vs HGR, I can't test it out but AC/20 'mechs ideally should win in a brawl against HGR 'mechs by having faster RoF, instantaneous fire, and better mobility (unfortunately engine size doesn't influence agility anymore because AC/20 permits bigger sized engines and can be arm mounted). That dual AC/20 triggers GH and dual HGR 'mechs like the Anni can pack 6 additional medium-class lasers could pose a problem to the idea.

If dual AC20 has its ghost heat removed, fires faster, and has better mobility due to being able to use an LFE engine. Plus you can snapshot with AC20 and theres no goofy reticle shake. Then why would anyone ever use dual HGR? Doing 10 extra damage isnt going to counter the superior rate of fire, lower tonnage crit usage, and higher mobility of the dual AC20.

That was my reasoning behind transitioning the HGR to more of a medium range role. So you could buff the AC20 back to where it should be while still having the AC20 and HGR fill different roles. AC20 as short range PPFLD and HGR as midrange PPFLD.

That seems like a logical change in order to bring back the AC20 and promote weapon diversity. Because right now the HGR is kindve in the way of the AC20 making a comeback.

Quote

Probably with a Ghost Heat modifier on the HGauss of like 1000% for the second HGauss fired simultaneously...

1000% seems a bit high. But even at 1000% thats still only +20 heat. 24 heat to do 50 PPFLD damage is hardly bad. But 700%-800% would probably be more in line with ghost heat on other PPFLD weapons.

However, in order to make room for a buffed AC20 at short range, the HGR needs to transition into more of a midrange weapon and should use the improved HGR stats instead (22 damage, 570m range, 6+1 cooldown)

It may or may not need the ghost heat limit of 1. remains to be seen. depends on other factors like laser nerfs.

http://www.sarna.net...avy_Gauss_Rifle

Edited by Khobai, 16 February 2018 - 01:05 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Hit the Deck, on 16 February 2018 - 02:14 AM, said:

I don't agree with Khobai way of balancing 'mechs, weapons, and sides which makes everything samey.

TBH, not many do because what he puts forward isn't balancing. It's suggestions from an uneducated and "lore" standpoint - both of which have NO place in balancing a FPS. Being hung up on how things are in "tabletop/LORE" is one of the main reasons MWO balance is up the creek. It should be a basis, not a rule.

Also to add a lack of understanding because comments like this:

Khobai, on 16 February 2018 - 03:08 AM, said:

It needs to be more samey in order to be better balanced.

It actually does not need to be "samey samey" each side. That is what PGI have been trying to do the last 6-12 months or so and, failing. Making things "too similar" is why stuff is the way it is now because it's stale if things are "samey samey".

Mechs need quirks, mechs need variation, mechs need specialist roles. IS and Clan quirks SHOULD differ to create this aspect.

Anyway this is largely off topic now.

Gas Guzzler, on 16 February 2018 - 07:47 AM, said:

I bought a 1X last night and I gotta say, I'm a fan.

Good man! They are good fun.

Also the UAC10/UAC5 is pretty entertaining as well.

[Khobai]

Quote

It actually does not need to be "samey samey" each side. That is what PGI have been trying to do the last 6-12 months or so and, failing. Making things "too similar" is why stuff is the way it is now because it's stale if things are "samey samey".

Because PGI doesnt do what I tell them to either.

they havent made ISXL survive side torso destruction
or buffed ISDHS
or made ISES/ISFF as good as the clan versions

those are the ways the game needs to be made more samey. right now clans get a major advantage in all three of those areas that unbalances the game severely.

Quote

Mechs need quirks, mechs need variation, mechs need specialist roles. IS and Clan quirks SHOULD differ to create this aspect.

um thats exactly what I said almost word for word in a previous post.

you are literally disagreeing with me for the sake of disagreeing with me

then repeating what I said. its hilarious.

its okay you dont have to like me to agree with me.

Edited by Khobai, 16 February 2018 - 06:19 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

I don't agree with you. Has that point been totally and utterly missed for 12 months now?

Wouldn't surprise me if you still argue your points in the face of facts/calcs that utterly disprove half the rubbish you come out with.

[Hit the Deck]

RoadblockXL, on 16 February 2018 - 11:06 AM, said:

...
Even if I do trigger ghost heat, It only brings me to 60%, I think. And then I just stop firing the PPCs for a bit while still using the HGauss since they don't really produce heat.

I tried and it made me shut down... (STD295 and one additional DHS).

Khobai, on 16 February 2018 - 12:37 PM, said:

If dual AC20 has its ghost heat removed, fires faster, and has better mobility due to being able to use an LFE engine. Plus you can snapshot with AC20 and theres no goofy reticle shake. Then why would anyone ever use dual HGR? Doing 10 extra damage isnt going to counter the superior rate of fire, lower tonnage crit usage, and higher mobility of the dual AC20.
...

To deliver a higher damage spike with faster projectiles. Just 50 pts of damage from the HGRs without additional lasers can make lighter and opened 'mechs go poof. If they de-linked Gauss-PPC GH then it could be even deadlier. Faster, more potent PPFLD combo have worse DPS and/or alpha potential and it's always balanced like that.

I still think that HGRs optimal range should be 270m, but current 220m is ok.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 16 February 2018 - 07:33 PM.

[Lunatic NEo]

Bombast, on 16 February 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

Well, it is bad. It's hot, for one, and 40 tubes is hardly worth it for a 100 tonner (Atlas AS7-D, yes?). You should choose either autocannons and missiles, or autocannons and Snubs. Those are fine builds.

So saying 80dmg Alpha, 40 of em true Pin Point which you can shot about 5 Times in a row is hot and bad but 74 Laser Alpha which overheats you after the second time for sure is OP?

Yeah, thats what i thought...

IS can Mount 40dmg Pin Point Alphas on a lot of Mechs above 65Tons. Clans on the other hand should get nerved cause 30dmg Pin Point (maximum possible with 2 Gauss) is too much? Last Time Clans got more Pin Point dmg (50! -> 2 Gauss + 2 ER PPC) we lost the KDK3, the Night Gyr (with the 40dmg Pin Point) and all the Chassis above 85 Tons got a nerf in mobilty. Also the Weapons itself got nerfed so hard that you are forced to boat them now to regain some of their old usefullness. But this wasnt still enough it seems, now that Clans are forced to play Laservomit over and over again its still to much. I just wonder when its enough. Caus on my IS Mechs i can play AC Builds, Laservomit Builds, Missile Builds, Gauss Builds. Meanwhile all my Clan Mechs are refittet to Laservomit or Gauss Vomit or some of em are AC Vomit... yay. Alll of em feel the same, hot and sluggish.
Well, we will see how balanced the tech is once Solaris 7 appears. Laservomit and Gauss Vomit isnt the hot **** in 1vs1 or 2vs2. Also dual Heavy Gauss Mechs arent the hot **** on mrbc long range Maps.
It all depends on Maps and engagement ranges, but the vibe here in the brown see is "nerf clans cause they got one working Build!".

[Bombast]

Lunatic NEo, on 18 February 2018 - 03:50 AM, said:

So saying 80dmg Alpha, 40 of em true Pin Point which you can shot about 5 Times in a row is hot and bad but 74 Laser Alpha which overheats you after the second time for sure is OP?

Well, first of all, I'd like to see that. An Atlas with 19 DHS will shut down after firing 5 AC/20+SNPPCx2 shots in a row. An MRM40 adds an additional 11.5 more heat.

For reference...

SNPPC - 10 heat
AC/20 - 6 heat

The MRM40 will increase your heat per volley by almost 30%, while also reducing the DHS you carry to, what... 16 at best?

Quote

IS can Mount 40dmg Pin Point Alphas on a lot of Mechs above 65Tons.

IS can do better than that, actually, and that's actually what this thread is about - Dual HGR is 50 pinpoint.

Quote

Clans on the other hand should get nerved cause 30dmg Pin Point (maximum possible with 2 Gauss) is too much?

I'm assuming you're talking about the PPC/GR nerf. That was 50 pinpoint damage from 800+ meters away.

Technically speaking, the IS received the same nerf. They just really couldn't do it in practice (Or not nearly as well, anyway).

I want to continue, but I'm seriously having a hard time getting my feet against someone who thinks the Atlas proves IS tech is OP

Lunatic NEo, on 18 February 2018 - 03:50 AM, said:

It all depends on Maps and engagement ranges, but the vibe here in the brown see is "nerf clans cause they got one working Build!".

If you go into literally any of the serious balance threads, you'll find most people here want two things for the clans - To nerf the bejesus out of laser vomit, and buff everything else. It's pretty widely understood that one of the reasons Clan mechs run so many lasers is because everything else is trash, and the reason so many IS mechs show up in QP isn't because they're better or meta, but just because they haven't been nerfed into being boring.

Edited by Bombast, 18 February 2018 - 06:12 AM.

[Lunatic NEo]

Bombast, on 18 February 2018 - 06:10 AM, said:

I want to continue, but I'm seriously having a hard time getting my feet against someone who thinks the Atlas proves IS tech is OP

Where did i ever said Atlas proves something? Its just an excample, one of many. 50dmg Pin Point isnt also unheard, see Topic...

Bombast, on 18 February 2018 - 06:10 AM, said:

If you go into literally any of the serious balance threads, you'll find most people here want two things for the clans - To nerf the bejesus out of laser vomit, and buff everything else.

Yeah i see what you IS Fanboy Guys are doing, mass threads about how op Clans are. I see quite few where its consens that Clans deserves some buffs. Oh... there was one who said that clans got nerfed and the usual crownd stormed it and said "no, its still op!".

Yeah... i figured you all here know it better then everybody else.

[Bombast]

Lunatic NEo, on 18 February 2018 - 07:21 AM, said:

[/b]
Where did i ever said Atlas proves something? Its just an excample, one of many. 50dmg Pin Point isnt also unheard, see Topic...

You cannot use the Atlas as an example to prove something, then claim it proves nothing. That's absurd.

Quote

Yeah i see what you IS Fanboy Guys are doing, mass threads about how op Clans are. I see quite few where its consens that Clans deserves some buffs. Oh... there was one who said that clans got nerfed and the usual crownd stormed it and said "no, its still op!".

Yeah... i figured you all here know it better then everybody else.

Go look at the most recent 'Community Rebalance' thread. Pretty much everyone agrees Clan needs buffs.

I don't know how to proceed if you continue to refuse to acknowledge realty, and by your own admission are providing non-evidence.

[Gas Guzzler]

Lunatic NEo, on 18 February 2018 - 03:50 AM, said:

So saying 80dmg Alpha, 40 of em true Pin Point which you can shot about 5 Times in a row is hot and bad but 74 Laser Alpha which overheats you after the second time for sure is OP?

Well there is a lot of differences here. An AC20 and 2SNPPCs tops out at 300 meters, and the MRM40 goes further but is spread. Also, I'm not sure that you can alpha that loadout 5 times in a row... That is kind of a lot of heat but I will have to try it.

Still, the laservomit reaches out to almost 500m and has the potential to be entirely pinpoint. Also, at 74 damage, that loadout can fit on something much more mobile that also helps. You really gotta compare that Atlas loadout to what other slow assaults are doing, which is more like 80-94 damage, at almost 500m, with 30 PPFLD out to 700. I'm not even saying that "OMG balance is terrible Clans are SOOO OP", but I do think the still have the edge in the heavy and assault territory.

[Gas Guzzler]

So the second alpha on that Atlas build took me to 90%, and that is waiting for the MRM40 cooldown, firing the AC20 and snubs again shuts down. So nowhere NEAR shooting 5 times before shutting down. Lol.

[Bombast]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 February 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

So the second alpha on that Atlas build took me to 90%, and that is waiting for the MRM40 cooldown, firing the AC20 and snubs again shuts down. So nowhere NEAR shooting 5 times before shutting down. Lol.

Thanks for testing that. I wanted too, but my Atlases have Endosteel for some reason and I wasn't willing to shell out the C-Bills to change to STD and max DHS in the arms.

[Y E O N N E]

Lunatic NEo, on 18 February 2018 - 07:21 AM, said:

[/b]
Yeah i see what you IS Fanboy Guys are doing, mass threads about how op Clans are. I see quite few where its consens that Clans deserves some buffs. Oh... there was one who said that clans got nerfed and the usual crownd stormed it and said "no, its still op!".

Yeah... i figured you all here know it better then everybody else.

No, the usual crowd called that person a damn dirty liar because he was deliberately twisting the facts to suit his narrative. Just like you are, here, with your statement about how cold that Atlas runs.