8 replies to this topic

[Fluffy Nuts]

Okay, I'd like to address something that I have noticed this week more starkly than I have in the previously months. Maybe I hadn't noticed it before, or what, but I've been paying a lot of attention since a recent incident and found this to be common.
Let me explain:

I had a 65 ton linebacker that does 97kph outrun, chase down, and catch me in my 156.7kph piranah!

Today I had a Black Lanner, top speed 113kph keep pace with me while I was trying to escape ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE MAP on Polar Tundra!

These are not isolated incidents, I routinely have much heavier mechs easily keep up while chasing me in light, fast mechs as if somehow the developers don't understand the differences in speed, or perhaps the game engine just isn't capable of scaling it, so let me illustrate a point.

97kph = 60.23mph, 156kph = 96.9mph.

So, if I take off in my hot rod drag race car, accelerate to 97mph and book it down the highway I should expect a schoolbus capable of 60mph max to easily be able to keep pace with me for a few miles? That's the equivalent of what's happening here.

If you were standing on the sidewalk of a residential street, and a car were to pass you, the speed at which it goes by and reaches the end of the block is slower by nearly a third that the speed difference between these two vehicles in my example!!!

But somehow that's a negligible difference in running speed of battlemechs?

So how is it the speed scaling in this game is so far off?

Could we possibly bring it a little closer to reality? Please?

And in case it's not clear, the two mechs I get outrun in the most are my PIR-1 that does 156kph with speed skills, and my LCT-PB that also does 156kph with speed skills, so it's not like they're slow!

[AttendingMonk1]

I'd like to respond to this by asking some questions and giving some examples. I do hope this helps.
First, when these mechs catch you, are running away in a straight line or zigzagging? Second, roughly how long until they catch you?

Examples to show why this might be happening:

• First, lets take the locust. With a max engine and speed tweak it is running at 165.4 KPH. That's reasonably fast at a whopping 45.944 m/s. The Linebacker, without speed tweak, runs at 97.2 KPH, which is 27 m/s. In this example, let's say that you, in your locust, happen upon this linebacker running at full speed. You, while running at full speed, laser him in the back and keep going in the direction that he was going. Assuming that he doesn't turn around and sees you pass him, he gives chase. Assuming that you both run in a straight line along the same path, it will take you just over 21 seconds to outrun optimal C-Er Medium Laser range.

• A second brief example. All of the aforementioned remains the same, but you run in a zigzag pattern. It will take even longer due to you covering more ground while he is still running in a relatively straight path. I feel that calculations showing the increased time are unneeded, due to the already long time shown in the previous example.

Now, I understand that he is more likely to slow down while under fire from behind, or to at least begin turning, but I think that the example shows just how long it takes to outrun someone when you have to do so in fairly open terrain such as Polar Highlands.

*Disclaimer: I am by no means perfect, please feel free to recheck my claims and run the calculations yourself. All KPH to m/s conversions were not done by hand, but by conversion software. Thank you for your understanding.

Peace and Blessings,
Monk

[Fluffy Nuts]

Well, this happened in both zig zagging, which I understand is slower, I'm extremely familiar with mech evasion tactics, and straight line running. In the example I gave on Polar Tundra I rounded a corner of a berm and booked it in a straight line and lever gained any appreciable lead on the Lanner, he was on me like a fat kid on a donut the entire run until he finally killed me.

With the linebacker, I was weaving a good deal, but the 59 kph (36mph) difference in our speeds shouldn't have made that a significant factor, I should have been out of his line of sight in seconds. This occurred on the outside loop of Grim Plexus, I should have been below the horizon line of the slope of the hill and out of his fire in mere seconds, instead he chased me down, caught me, and killed me.

That would almost be like an old lady in a walker chasing down and catching a mugger who was formerly on the track team.

Just saying.

ETA: Just so it's clear I'm not new to light mech piloting, although I only joined this game in the last few months, I've been playing battlemech games since the first mechwarrior, before MWO:

Mechwarrior League Solaris VII Light division Champion: 2x, placing 2nd more times than I can count
Mechwarrior League Solaris VII Medium Division Champion: 3x placing 2nd more times than I can count
MWL Capture the Flag: Highest scoring midfielder (I'm the guy responsible for everyone using the Gesu to midfield, it was my favorite ride)
Consistently the highest kill/death score while with -={BGA}=- and with MNC

Anyone who was in MWL will remember.

So yeah, I can drive a light mech.

Edited by Fluffy Nuts, 23 February 2018 - 05:07 PM.

[Khobai]

the games not balanced

clantech > IStech

what else is there to say

the whole problem with CXL is that it allows clan heavies to go 80+ kph without giving anything up. If an IS heavy tries to do the same thing with an ISXL they cut their survivability in half.

this is exactly why ISXL needs to be able to survive side torso blowout.



I think we can also probably expect the linebacker to get its agility nerfed at some point too. It just hasnt happened yet. A clan heavy with the weapons of a medium and speed of a fast medium/slow light was bound to cause balance problems. PGI shouldve seen that coming...

Edited by Khobai, 23 February 2018 - 05:08 PM.

[AttendingMonk1]

Alright. I'm still not seeing an issue, but please bear with me. The Black Lanner has Masc and can turn, accelerate, and maintain high speeds with it.The Black Lanner can run at 149.9 KPH (approximately 41.639 m/s) with speed tweak and Masc and 139.5 KPH (38.75 m/s) without speed tweak. Starting from equal points at full speed, it takes from around a minute and a half to just under a minute (depending on speed tweak) to outrun C-Er Medium Laser range. So, it is very expected that he "caught" you if by caught you mean destroyed you with his weapons. If by "caught" you mean actually gained on you and came close enough to ram you, then maybe you were zigzagging.

Which leads to me having a possible explanation for the Linebacker. Now you know from my previous post that it would take just over 21 seconds to clear his range if all he had was C-Er Medium Lasers. What I didn't mention was the exact effect of zigzagging or weaving while running away. I think that the following is a reasonable example. If you were running away in your Locust at 45.944 m/s or 165.4 KPH and were to make a 30° degree turn to left or right followed by 60° turns in the opposite direction 1 second later (resulting in 30° zigs and zags relative to the path of the linebacker), then you would be covering 73.2% more ground than the Linebacker chasing you starting from the first zig or zag. That effectively reduces your speed to being just under his top speed if he did not have speed tweak (in relation to his path). If you were weaving to a greater degree, you would effectively slow yourself down enough that he would start to make noticeable gain on you. I like to point out that the frequency of turns doesn't matter as long as they are consistent, only the degree turned.

I'd like to say congratulations on winning on those various tournaments and your other achievements. I know crazy things seem to happen when being pursued, but it usually makes sense when doing the math. I've even been caught by a Mist Lynx on Polar Highlands in my Locust before, but it was because of the effect of weaving.

You've seen the disclaimer and it still applies.

Peace and Blessings,
Monk

Edited by AttendingMonk1, 24 February 2018 - 04:52 PM.

[DerHuhnTeufel]

The BLK has MASC which can easily allow them to keep up for limited time.

As others have stated, you'd need a good 20+ seconds to escape from the linebacker's range, assuming straight line distance.

Honestly though, the linebacker is stupid fast and agile for a heavy mech. There does need to be more distinction between the classes. I mean you have things like the centurion which are so clumsy they have the same agility as some assault mechs, which is also stupid. Lore aside, it doesn't fit the game balance to have a heavy that's more agile than a good chunk of lights and just as fast.

[Syntillate]

It's a trade-off speed or firepower, compare the linebacker to hellbringer both 65t, hbr 81kph, lbk 97.2kph 16kph costs 11 tons. That limits loadouts substantially.

Yes you can get similar speeds out of heavier mechs but usually at a severe cost to firepower or heat management. Also heavier mechs are typically (not always) larger and easier to hit.

The linebacker also has other qualities that make it a good mechs, it's probably still be good if you could drop the engine to the same as a hellbringer and gaining 11 tons

[Kalimaster]

Lets all admit that there are still bugs to be worked out of this game.

[DerHuhnTeufel]

Well the problem with the linebacker also lays with it's agility. It's more maneuverable than most mediums, and more than quite a few lights. You shouldn't have a heavy mech that can out-turn, out-accelerate, and out-run lights and mediums. Even if it has to take a (marginally) reduced firepower loadout to do so. Yes, easier to spot and shoot, but with the armor tonnage to soak it up as well.