30 replies to this topic

[Water Bear]

A lot of you probably know what I'm talking about. One side of the map allows you to wrap around D4 to E4 and kill the other team's assaults, because (for some great reason) charlie lance spawns way far away from the E4 side of the hill.

I'd say well over 50% of games are won by the team with the "good" spawn.

Time to change these spawns?

[Athom83]

No. Time to change the mindset of the idiots in the mediums and fast heavies that completely abandon their assaults and lemming down the side of the map completely opposite of where there assaults are instead of linking up with their assaults.

[LT. HARDCASE]

If you're in T1, you should understand the concept of "Don't Leave Your Assaults To Die."

[Athom83]

LT. HARDCASE, on 24 February 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

If you're in T1, you should understand the concept of "Don't Leave Your Assaults To Die."

Sadly, this is not the case.

[xX PUG Xx]

Athom83, on 24 February 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

No. Time to change the mindset of the idiots in the mediums and fast heavies that completely abandon their assaults and lemming down the side of the map completely opposite of where there assaults are instead of linking up with their assaults.

So much this ^^^^

I don't know where the propensity to "Nascar" every map or why so many think that running in a wide arc, away from their own slow moving 'Mechs (while calling it a flanking manouevre) is the best tactic.

I can see the benefit of getting a couple of 'Mechs on an enemies line and turning them, thus exposing them to the main firing line. However when 2/3rds of the team are "strung out" across four grids, with the slowest 'Mechs trailing, it is NOT a flanking move, it is running away from your team to pad paltry damage figures in a losing game.

*'edit*

In answer to the OP's original question: No, the spawns are 'relatively' fine.

Edited by xX PUG Xx, 24 February 2018 - 01:04 PM.

[Roughneck45]

Far too many people are afk when the match starts too. Those first few seconds really do count, especially if you are moving 50-60 kph.

Edited by Roughneck45, 24 February 2018 - 03:58 PM.

[Water Bear]

Roughneck45, on 24 February 2018 - 03:57 PM, said:

Far too many people are afk when the match starts too. Those first few seconds really do count, especially if you are moving 50-60 kph.

Let's assume the assaults are hard on the W key from moment 1. I usually have to type in chat "they're going to flank D4 to E4 and kill us, please cover assaults" and even after doing that, shenanigans.

Look, I understand all the people who say "people aught to know better in T1." Sure they should. But they don't. The natural habits of players in PUGs at that level result in imbalance.

Which is easier: Changing spawn locations slightly or trying to somehow change the brains of thousands of PUG players?

[PocketYoda]

Too much speed, too much range and too much tunnel vision, thats why they leave their team mates behind..

Also this populations egos are far to high to deal with teamplay and waiting on others..

Edited by Samial, 24 February 2018 - 06:48 PM.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Water Bear, on 24 February 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

I usually have to type in chat "they're going to flank D4 to E4 and kill us, please cover assaults" and even after doing that, shenanigans.

In my experience piloting assaults, the most dividends are paid through getting on VOIP from second one of the ready up screen, and taking the reigns as far as how the team is going to behave in escorting the assault lance.

That's not to say it always works, but I can almost guarantee 3 mechs coming to help every match.

[Shadowomega1]

I have tried to get people on the "bad" spawn side to help the assaults sometimes they will but the assaults will just run for the suicide tunnel or talk the long walk. The rest no one listens and leaves the assaults open to be hit. Best option is for the fast mechs to take the top as quick as possible and do as much arty/air strike on where the enemy comes out in conjunction with suppressive fire. However, because of to many asinine and insulting comments about actually defending the assaults, even in tier 1 match, I have giving up trying to change the mindset of those that get stuck on the bad spawn side.

[Khobai]

they know people nascar counterclockwise

so slow assaults should always spawn on the right side, never on the left side

[ramp4ge]

LT. HARDCASE, on 24 February 2018 - 12:26 PM, said:

If you're in T1, you should understand the concept of "Don't Leave Your Assaults To Die."

All tier 1 means is you got carried enough times to have failed to learn any vital lessons all the way to tier 1.

I'm in tier 3 right now and I swear to God on all things sacred, tiers 4 and 5 had more actual, functional teamwork.

[Athom83]

Khobai, on 24 February 2018 - 07:47 PM, said:

they know people nascar counterclockwise

so slow assaults should always spawn on the right side, never on the left side

This will just reverse the flow. Nascar will still exist because people will still try to get around the backs of enemy assaults while staying away from the faster force of mediums and heavies.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Meh! Just drop an air strike on the ramp as you pass if you spot someone while crossing, most pugs aren't smart enough to anticpiate such l33t strats. And if you're using a competent gauss vomt assault, any little jumpjet mech that inevitably peeks from atop the party stops you can just cripple outright. As a slolo player there's not much else you can do.

[Khobai]

Athom83, on 24 February 2018 - 09:43 PM, said:

This will just reverse the flow. Nascar will still exist because people will still try to get around the backs of enemy assaults while staying away from the faster force of mediums and heavies.

people go counterclockwise more because of the right side weapon bias on mechs

I think having assaults spawn on the right would be fine. you could also have assaults spawn in the middle, thats still better than on the left. they should never spawn on the left side. ever.

[Wil McCullough]

Never had an issue with the spawns on mining unless it's a derpy charlie lance that decides to move TOWARDS the incoming flankers via the tunnel instead of heading towards bravo lance on the right.

[Water Bear]

I should say: One easy way to fix the spawns on Mining is to just make them symmetric. For some reason, Charlie lance spawns on the same line on both sides. If the bad spawing side has Charlie lance diagonally opposite to the good side, they'd have the shortest walk to the middle hill, much like Charlie lance on the good spawn side.

Khobai, on 24 February 2018 - 07:47 PM, said:

they know people nascar counterclockwise

so slow assaults should always spawn on the right side, never on the left side

This guy gets it. Another way to explain what's happening here is that the spawns reward the "good spawn" team for nascaring around their side of the middle hill.

ramp4ge, on 24 February 2018 - 08:03 PM, said:

All tier 1 means is you got carried enough times to have failed to learn any vital lessons all the way to tier 1.

I'm in tier 3 right now and I swear to God on all things sacred, tiers 4 and 5 had more actual, functional teamwork.

This problem really has nothing to do with tier. The first handful of replies to this thread were rather strange, IMO. Basically they were expressing a desire to punish people.

Anyway you can always check OPs stats on the in-game leaderboard and decide for yourself how bad I am.

Edited by Water Bear, 25 February 2018 - 06:45 AM.

[Asym]

Change??? We don't want no stinking change!!! That would ruin all of the "gamers" day because they'd have to actually think tactically and they don't do that. They see the "gameplay patterns" and then exploit them...

Want to see that work? Everyone on a team simply go to one corner the assualts spawn in and watch what the opposition does..... Power down and watch the enemy deploy...... Want to be what they do? Even if you wipe them out, because there is strength in numbers, they'll do the same thing, over and over and over..... It's how games work because there isn't an AI changing the patterns.......like random spawn points or mixed spawn drops or further or nearer spawns, etc....

They go to the exact same spots they've "gamed out" and when you aren't there, they seriously don't know what to do !!!! We've tested this theory several times and time after time, you see the same thing...... Go ahead, try it ! On Crimson Tide, don't go look for the enemy and defend a spawn, the base or island.... Try it and watch the opposing team implode.....

Look, these are repetitive maps and repetition is a "gamers" friend.... They exploit every gameplay advantage because it's more fun !!! Tactics? Seriously, very few in the game have the training to use real tactics and that means the "game tactics are the hacks that work !!!"

Go ahead, try it !

[Water Bear]

Asym, on 25 February 2018 - 08:11 AM, said:

Change??? We don't want no stinking change!!! That would ruin all of the "gamers" day because they'd have to actually think tactically and they don't do that. They see the "gameplay patterns" and then exploit them...

Want to see that work? Everyone on a team simply go to one corner the assualts spawn in and watch what the opposition does..... Power down and watch the enemy deploy...... Want to be what they do? Even if you wipe them out, because there is strength in numbers, they'll do the same thing, over and over and over..... It's how games work because there isn't an AI changing the patterns.......like random spawn points or mixed spawn drops or further or nearer spawns, etc....

They go to the exact same spots they've "gamed out" and when you aren't there, they seriously don't know what to do !!!! We've tested this theory several times and time after time, you see the same thing...... Go ahead, try it ! On Crimson Tide, don't go look for the enemy and defend a spawn, the base or island.... Try it and watch the opposing team implode.....

Look, these are repetitive maps and repetition is a "gamers" friend.... They exploit every gameplay advantage because it's more fun !!! Tactics? Seriously, very few in the game have the training to use real tactics and that means the "game tactics are the hacks that work !!!"

Go ahead, try it !

You're not wrong. Everyone knows where to go on every map, because that's where the fight naturally occurs. Randomized spawns would be a fantastic idea.

[NRP]

I do feel like I get ganked off the spawn sometimes on Mining Collective.