136 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

PGI only gives the 12 energy and ballistic hardpoints for micro lasers and MGs.

there other mechs with 12+ energy beside the piranha

like the nova, direwolf, etc... i have a 12 MPL+2LPL direwolf. its not using microlasers.


the srm2 is basically the missile equivalent of a machine gun or small/micro laser anyway

its only half a ton

so there should be more mechs with 8-12 missile hardpoints

Edited by Khobai, 25 February 2018 - 05:46 PM.

[Yosharian]

Not that I think identical cooldowns is only answer, but it's great to see PGI making the higher tonnage launchers actually worth bringing for once.

That's how it should be, dammit.

[Diablobo]

Khobai, on 25 February 2018 - 05:44 PM, said:

there other mechs with 12 energy beside the pirahna

like the nova, direwolf, etc...

the srm2 is basically the missile equivalent of a machine gun or small/micro laser anyway

its only half a ton

so there should be more mechs with 8-12 missile hardpoints

Uh huh. So that's only energy, and they have ghost heat. There are no other MG boats beside the Piranha. Your idea of adding a bunch of hardpoints is awful. Just fix the damn cooldowns.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 25 February 2018 - 05:44 PM, said:

the srm2 is basically the missile equivalent of a machine gun or small/micro laser anyway

its only half a ton

so there should be more mechs with 8-12 missile hardpoints

It's more than half a ton if you count the mandatory ammo, and also the IS one is 1 ton instead of 0.5 tons.

[PocketYoda]

I think a lot of these people make up bs to help their gameplay.. MRM10's and 20's work fine and are as good or better than 30's and 40's... lower MRMs from use have less miss and come off more accurate..

Throwing MRM30s and 40s at people most of my damage is missed as they are so inaccurate or lost on hitreg,10's and 20's seldom miss..

These people that make up bs rules of mwo like bombast here are so fake news..

My Urbies mrm20 does way better than my cyclops with twin mrm 30.. as half the damage just diappears into the ether of bad pgi hitreg.

[Bohxim]

Samial, on 25 February 2018 - 06:18 PM, said:

I think a lot of these people make up bs to help their gameplay.. MRM10's and 20's work fine and are as good or better than 30's and 40's... lower MRMs from use have less miss and come off more accurate..

Throwing MRM30s and 40s at people most of my damage is missed as they are so inaccurate or lost on hitreg,10's and 20's seldom miss..

These people that make up bs rules of mwo like bombast here are so fake news..

My Urbies mrm20 does way better than my cyclops with twin mrm 30.. as half the damage just diappears into the ether of bad pgi hitreg.

I beg to differ. Whilst my wolverine has decent stats for running 3 mrm 20s, my mauler does great with the mrm 30s scoring a higher average match score than my wolverines. I would assume its the quirks, hard points and how u play the engagements

[Khobai]

Quote

It's more than half a ton if you count the mandatory ammo, and also the IS one is 1 ton instead of 0.5 tons.

machine guns also require mandatory ammo. And lasers need heatsinks. so its not like missiles are unique in that regard.

so its not inaccurate to call the csrm2 the missile equivalent of the c.machine gun or c.small laser.

Quote

Uh huh. So that's only energy, and they have ghost heat. There are no other MG boats beside the Piranha. Your idea of adding a bunch of hardpoints is awful. Just fix the damn cooldowns.

the mist lynx is a machine gun boat. it has 8 machine guns. theres other clan mechs that can use 8 machine guns too (arctic cheetah can use 8, shadowcat can use 7, etc...). and the pirahna can of course use 12. there are also clan mechs with 8-15 energy hardpoints.

there are NO clan mechs that can use 8 missile weapons though. not even one.

theres no good reason why there arnt mechs with 8-12 missile hardpoints like there are for B and E.

I dont think asking for the maddog to get new omnipods that give it 8 missile hardpoints is unreasonable... since the maddog is supposed to be the premier clan missiler. And in fairness, some of the catapults should have 6-8 missile hardpoints as well.

Quote

I think a lot of these people make up bs to help their gameplay.. MRM10's and 20's work fine and are as good or better than 30's and 40's... lower MRMs from use have less miss and come off more accurate..

no lol. the MRM30 was the best MRM option by far, thats even why it got nerfed last tuesday.

I imagine its still the best. Just not by as big of a margin as before.

But also IS isnt as starved for missile hardpoints as clans. There are IS mechs with 7-8 missile hardpoints. There are no clan mechs with more than 6 missile hardpoints. Its hard for clans to really make good use of the ATM3 when the most they can have is 6 missile hardpoints. The tiny launchers suffers for lack of missile hardpoints.

Edited by Khobai, 25 February 2018 - 11:53 PM.

[Diablobo]

Boating is the stupidest and most min/max perversion of any game system that is little more than an exploit. And your solution to actual problems and inconsistencies is to make them worse? Wow....just wow.

Rather than make an actual weapon better, you just propose piling more on in the hopes that it will fix it. And what about the remaining mechs that can't boat? Uhhhhh...too bad, shoulda brought a boat?

[Diablobo]

Bohxim, on 25 February 2018 - 11:04 PM, said:

I beg to differ. Whilst my wolverine has decent stats for running 3 mrm 20s, my mauler does great with the mrm 30s scoring a higher average match score than my wolverines. I would assume its the quirks, hard points and how u play the engagements

Yeah, and I'm sure that extra 35 tons of armor and weapons plays NO part whatsoever. LOLOLOLOL

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Diablobo, on 26 February 2018 - 12:46 AM, said:

Boating is the stupidest and most min/max perversion of any game system that is little more than an exploit. And your solution to actual problems and inconsistencies is to make them worse? Wow....just wow.

Rather than make an actual weapon better, you just propose piling more on in the hopes that it will fix it. And what about the remaining mechs that can't boat? Uhhhhh...too bad, shoulda brought a boat?

A number of stock builds from Battletech lore would like a word with you.

The only perversion would be to twist the game mechanics until boating became impossible. It is a valid build type. Weapons should be viable singly, yes... but it makes no sense to limit them in multiple mounts, because doing so literally breaks the game.

[Khobai]

Quote

Boating is the stupidest and most min/max perversion of any game system that is little more than an exploit. And your solution to actual problems and inconsistencies is to make them worse? Wow....just wow.

Boating can be exploitative with certain weapons.

But certainly nobody in their right mind would consider x8-x10 SRM2s to be exploitative.

x12 CSRM2s could be a little nuts I suppose. but still wouldnt do more dps than MRM120.

So I have to disagree with you.

Quote

Rather than make an actual weapon better, you just propose piling more on in the hopes that it will fix it. And what about the remaining mechs that can't boat? Uhhhhh...too bad, shoulda brought a boat?

the mechs that cant boat can use the larger launchers like SRM6s.

a lot of weapons are only good if you boat them. Thats the reality of the game.

you cant make weapons disproportionately better than their tonnage cost says they should be. because that defeats the whole purpose of tonnage. the more tonnage you pay for a weapon the better a weapon should be.

Edited by Khobai, 26 February 2018 - 01:56 AM.

[Diablobo]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 26 February 2018 - 01:29 AM, said:

A number of stock builds from Battletech lore would like a word with you.

The only perversion would be to twist the game mechanics until boating became impossible. It is a valid build type. Weapons should be viable singly, yes... but it makes no sense to limit them in multiple mounts, because doing so literally breaks the game.

Reducing cooldowns for the smaller MRM and ATM launchers in no way limits them. It's far more sensible than piling more on to make up for what faster cooldowns fixes. I have no problem with 6 or so of the same hardpoints, but any more than that is only necessary for weapons that would otherwise be mediocre.

[Diablobo]

Khobai, on 26 February 2018 - 01:35 AM, said:

Boating can be exploitative with certain weapons.

But certainly nobody in their right mind would consider x8-x10 SRM2s to be exploitative.

x12 SRM2s could be a little nuts I suppose. But no better than MRM120 for dps.

So I have to disagree with you.

12 SRM2s gives a DPS of 25.8
6 SRM4s gives a DPS of 17.22
4 SRM6s gives a DPS of 12.92

Sounds pretty broken to me.

[Khobai]

Quote

12 SRM2s gives a DPS of 25.8
6 SRM4s gives a DPS of 17.22
4 SRM6s gives a DPS of 12.92

I was talking more about CSRMs not ISSRMs so its 24 dps. Because I was talking about clans not having a mech with more than x6 missile hardpoints. SRM2s will never be used on a clan mech with only 6 missile hardpoints. Neither will ATM3s.

And like I said x12 might be a little nuts. But x8-x10 would certainly be fine.

And to put things in perspective MRM120 does 28 dps. So your not outdpsing MRM builds anyway.

SRM6 and SRM4 actually need much higher ghost heat limits (at least GH limit of 6). GH limit of 4 is pathetic and its one of the reasons SRMs underperform now. Not only are they limited to short range, but they do spread damage, AND they cant even do the same high alphas other weapons can.

SRMs have been completely left in the dirt by MRMs. MRMs give you way more damage at better range for less heat. The only downside is the spread which can be compensated for by taking enough MRMs that you far surpass the SRMs in damage despite the worse spread.

Edited by Khobai, 26 February 2018 - 03:03 AM.

[Diablobo]

Khobai, on 26 February 2018 - 02:42 AM, said:

I was talking more about CSRMs not ISSRMs so its 24 dps. Because I was talking about clans not having a mech with more than x6 missile hardpoints. SRM2s will never be used on a clan mech with only 6 missile hardpoints. Neither will ATM3s.

What's the matter with a Jenner IIC with 6SRM2s? Tighter spread, better rate of fire, ammo all day long. It's a win/win/win.

I'm not a big SRM fan, but your ridiculous statement almost makes me want to run one and kick some @ss to show how wrong you are. LOL

Edited by Diablobo, 26 February 2018 - 04:46 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

What's the matter with a Jenner IIC with 6SRM2s? Tighter spread, better rate of fire, ammo all day long. It's a win/win/win.

because youre much better off using a build like x4 SRM4s + x2 SRM2s instead

in order to compete with x4 SRM4 + x2 SRM2 youd have to be able to take x8 SRM2s, which you cant do

it all goes back to what I said before, not enough missile hardpoints to make SRM2s work as a standalone weapon




And for some dumb reason ATM3s are in the same ghost heat group as all the other ATM launchers. So ATM3s dont even get the same niche supplemental role that SRM2s do after youve hit the GH limit for SRM4/6. So theres really no reason to ever use ATM3s at all.

Edited by Khobai, 26 February 2018 - 05:25 AM.

[Diablobo]

Khobai, on 26 February 2018 - 05:08 AM, said:

because youre much better off using a build like x4 SRM4s + x2 SRM2s instead

in order to compete with x4 SRM4 + x2 SRM2 youd have to be able to take x8 SRM2s, which you cant do

it all goes back to what I said before, not enough missile hardpoints to make SRM2s work




And for some dumb reason ATM3s are in the same ghost heat group as all the other ATM launchers. So ATM3s dont even get the same niche supplemental role that SRM2s do after youve hit the GH limit for SRM4/6. So theres really no reason to ever use ATM3s at all.

How is a smaller engine, no jump jets, less DPS and worse spread with out of sync firing patterns worth 8 more points of alpha?

edit: my bad, slightly more DPS and alpha.


I don't know who taught you you how to mechlab, but they suck.

Edited by Diablobo, 26 February 2018 - 05:31 AM.

[Bombast]

Diablobo, on 26 February 2018 - 05:26 AM, said:

How is a smaller engine, no jump jets, less DPS and worse spread with out of sync firing patterns worth 8 more points of alpha?

I don't know who taught you you how to mechlab, but they suck.

The Jenner IIC does not receive fire well, so it's generally considered a 'Zoom and Boom' mech. Big alphas you can vomit once on the way in and once on the way out are preferable to 'stand and deliver' low cooldown loadouts.

I don't think SRM4+2s are the ideal Jenner IIC build, but I know for sure SRM2 boating is not good.

Edited by Bombast, 26 February 2018 - 05:29 AM.

[Angus McFife VI]

Samial, on 25 February 2018 - 06:18 PM, said:

I think a lot of these people make up bs to help their gameplay.. MRM10's and 20's work fine and are as good or better than 30's and 40's... lower MRMs from use have less miss and come off more accurate..

Throwing MRM30s and 40s at people most of my damage is missed as they are so inaccurate or lost on hitreg,10's and 20's seldom miss..

These people that make up bs rules of mwo like bombast here are so fake news..

My Urbies mrm20 does way better than my cyclops with twin mrm 30.. as half the damage just diappears into the ether of bad pgi hitreg.

Too much ******** like this is going to send bad feedback to pgi

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 26 February 2018 - 05:35 AM.

[Bombast]

Dont LRM me please, on 26 February 2018 - 05:31 AM, said:

Just go on jarls list and get the names of everyone spreading the misinformation and learn an interesting correleation.

That they have generally higher positions than the people advocating small launchers, or the people suggesting that Jarl's should be checked?

EDIT: Oh, sorry, misread your intention. My bad.

Sorry for getting all passive aggressive on you.

Edited by Bombast, 26 February 2018 - 05:37 AM.