133 replies to this topic

[Cyborne Elemental]

SEXY!!!!!!, and Has personality.


Blocky, no personality, kinda blah..

[NocturnalBeast]

Why do the HGRs take up so much space on the Fafnir, when they look redicuously small on most other Mechs that can mount them? Weapon sizes need to be constant regardless of the Mech that they are mounted on. Also while we are talking about normalization, it would be really nice if colors looked the same on whatever Mech you put them on.

Edited by Ed Steele, 09 April 2018 - 05:35 PM.

[mad kat]

Noticed there has been a lot of survive-ability creep on mechs lately not just hard point inflation but a lot of the later released mechs, especially clan like the mad cat MKii and the black lanner take far more abuse than they should be allowed. Yet i think this thing won't.

Not only that it will be completely unplayable in Quick play as most assaults right now if you can't keep close to 60-65 you get left behind.

[The Boneshaman]

Ed Steele, on 09 April 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

Why do the HGRs take up so much space on the Fafnir, when they look redicuously small on most other Mechs that can mount them? Weapon sizes need to be constant regardless of the Mech that they are mounted on. Also while we are talking about normalization, it would be really nice if colors looked the same on whatever Mech you put them on.

They pull the mechs from Battletech lore. some mechs have a small laser that looks like its a cannon that can fire a round the size of a 1962 Cadillac Eldorado or a AC20 so small it looks like it should be a MG. but i think the heavy gauss barrel is stuck in the big torso kind of like what an ac would look like on the Hunchback 4G.

Edited by The Boneshaman, 10 April 2018 - 05:27 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Ed Steele, on 09 April 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

Why do the HGRs take up so much space on the Fafnir, when they look redicuously small on most other Mechs that can mount them? Weapon sizes need to be constant regardless of the Mech that they are mounted on. Also while we are talking about normalization, it would be really nice if colors looked the same on whatever Mech you put them on.

Your of course correct.

However P.G.I can't even get the same sized launchers, the same size, on the same mech, with the current modular system..

You just have to pack out a Bushwhacker with SRM launchers to prove how poorly they implemented their own system.

[MovinTarget]

Cathy, on 10 April 2018 - 06:00 AM, said:

Your of course correct.

However P.G.I can't even get the same sized launchers, the same size, on the same mech, with the current modular system..

You just have to pack out a Bushwhacker with SRM launchers to prove how poorly they implemented their own system.

Yes to some extent but to also be fair, as the Poster just prior (Boneshaman) pointed out, many of the designs are an attempt at keeping the spirit of the original TRO art.

So even if PGI correctly scaled the weapons, they would run afoul of the purists that *EXPECT* huge torsos on a Fafnir...

Edited by MovinTarget, 10 April 2018 - 06:49 AM.

[Eisenhorne]

Ed Steele, on 09 April 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

Why do the HGRs take up so much space on the Fafnir, when they look redicuously small on most other Mechs that can mount them? Weapon sizes need to be constant regardless of the Mech that they are mounted on. Also while we are talking about normalization, it would be really nice if colors looked the same on whatever Mech you put them on.

Have you seen the in-game picture of the Fafnir? The gauss rifle looks normal, it's just mounted inside that massive cavity. Think of it as an armored cowling around the gun.

[NocturnalBeast]

Eisenhorne, on 10 April 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

Have you seen the in-game picture of the Fafnir? The gauss rifle looks normal, it's just mounted inside that massive cavity. Think of it as an armored cowling around the gun.

If that is so, then it is believable at least, if the intent is to have the enemy focus fire on the area that your main weapons are mounted. But yes, that design is from lore and not necessarily PGIs fault, although I believe that those "cavities" are supposed to be the barrels of the HGRs which would make the HGRs on all other Mechs look way too small.

[Jonathan8883]

It's going to need armor quirks for the side torsos, and structure quirks for the legs.

[Captain Grayson Lighthorse]

Ed Steele, on 09 April 2018 - 05:32 PM, said:

Why do the HGRs take up so much space on the Fafnir, when they look redicuously small on most other Mechs that can mount them? Weapon sizes need to be constant regardless of the Mech that they are mounted on.

Agreed. It would be nice it this were the case, but PGI alters things as they please... Unfortunately.

The HGR is SUPPOSED to be HUGE! Both in lore and previous MechWarrior games, MW4 for example, the HGR shoots a shell roughly the size of a VW Beetle at high velocity across the map and slams it into a target. Shooting a projectile this size requires a very large weapon; especially when the projectile is launched via series of progressively charged magnets that have to be very large themselves.

Why PGI decided to make the Gauss and HGR shoot projectiles the size of BBs is a bit of a puzzle. The only reasoning I can come up with is that they were more concerned with maintaining visual 'Mech aesthetics than accurately depicting the massive size of the weapons.

If you can visualize the distortions that an Annihilator, Atlas, Victor, Cyclops, or Mauler would be subjected to to carry these massive weapons then you can probably see the reasoning behind this massive downscale of these two weapons systems. It would be extremely difficult for PGI to make these 'Mechs LOOK appealing and probably really mess up the hitboxes to a large degree if the weapon size was accurate.

While I do think that the size of the HGR does need to be slightly bigger to reflect the massive damage this weapon is capable of, I don't think it would be possible to scale it to its accurate size due to the above mentioned reasons.

However, this is software, and they can quite literally make this 'Mech as tough or as fragile as they want it to be. Hopefully they will make it tough enough to stand up to the heavy weapons fire that it is going to be subjected to and still be able to fight. Because just like the Annihilator, it WILL be a priority target on the battlefield.

With the side torsos being designed mostly for HGR, I'm curious to see what the other variants will be looking like that have missiles or just energy weapons in them. Since this is the way that most everyone sees the Fafnir looking, I wonder how much it will change the appearance of the 'Mech...

Edited by Captain Grayson Lighthorse, 10 April 2018 - 10:35 AM.

[NocturnalBeast]

Captain Grayson Lighthorse, on 10 April 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

Agreed. It would be nice it this were the case, but PGI alters things as they please... Unfortunately.

The HGR is SUPPOSED to be HUGE! Both in lore and previous MechWarrior games, MW4 for example, the HGR shoots a shell roughly the size of a VW Beetle at high velocity across the map and slams it into a target. Shooting a projectile this size requires a very large weapon; especially when the projectile is launched via series of progressively charged magnets that have to be very large themselves.

Why PGI decided to make the Gauss and HGR shoot projectiles the size of BBs is a bit of a puzzle. The only reasoning I can come up with is that they were more concerned with maintaining visual 'Mech aesthetics than accurately depicting the massive size of the weapons.

If you can visualize the distortions that an Annihilator, Atlas, Victor, Cyclops, or Mauler would be subjected to to carry these massive weapons then you can probably see the reasoning behind this massive downscale of these two weapons systems. It would be extremely difficult for PGI to make these 'Mechs LOOK appealing and probably really mess up the hitboxes to a large degree if the weapon size was accurate.

While I do think that the size of the HGR does need to be slightly bigger to reflect the massive damage this weapon is capable of, I don't think it would be possible to scale it to its accurate size due to the above mentioned reasons.

However, this is software, and they can quite literally make this 'Mech as tough or as fragile as they want it to be. Hopefully they will make it tough enough to stand up to the heavy weapons fire that it is going to be subjected to and still be able to fight. Because just like the Annihilator, it WILL be a priority target on the battlefield.

With the side torsos being designed mostly for HGR, I'm curious to see what the other variants will be looking like that have missiles or just energy weapons in them. Since this is the way that most everyone sees the Fafnir looking, I wonder how much it will change the appearance of the 'Mech...

I believe that the Fafnir was one of the first Mechs in lore to have HGRs and I am not sure that many other Mechs were even able to mount them. So since we are, in-effect, modifying other Mechs to be able to mount an HGR, it would make sense for their appearance to be "distorted", since the weapon itself is not being redesigned. And yes, since this is software, the appearances can be changed and normalized much like when the Mechs were rescaled.

[Captain Grayson Lighthorse]

mad kat, on 09 April 2018 - 11:25 PM, said:

Noticed there has been a lot of survive-ability creep on mechs lately not just hard point inflation but a lot of the later released mechs, especially clan like the mad cat MKii and the black lanner take far more abuse than they should be allowed. Yet i think this thing won't.

Not only that it will be completely unplayable in Quick play as most assaults right now if you can't keep close to 60-65 you get left behind.

One of the main reasons for the "survive-ability creep" over the last 8 to 12 months is PGI's been putting out patch after patch of weapon nerf-nerf-nerf! Paul "the nerf god" Inouye believes that the only way to increase TTK is to nerf all of the weapon systems into the ground. Well, Paul and PGI are the only ones that are interested in "increasing" TTK. I personally want that enemy 'Mech that I'm shooting at to die as fast as possible! They've nerfed our weapons and consumables for the sole purpose of increasing this TTK that none of us pilots care about. TTK is their excuse to keep decreasing the effectiveness of our weapons and 'Mechs. They call it "balancing". I call it S-A-B-O-T-A-G-E!!

All of this nerfing has made the 'Mechs so ineffective on the battlefield that it has in effect "taught" the player base to do all of these nascar, murder ball maneuvers, and the run and hide that takes place in game now. Basically if you don't have powerful weapons or a very tough 'Mech you have two choices. Either run and hide, or join up in a murder ball in order to survive. Good old brawling now is almost non existent. And you are right about the assaults, if you don't sacrifice weapons to put in a big engine to keep up with the nascar you get dead in a hurry because the other players leave you behind. PGI has forced this game play style down our throats over the last several months with all of the nerfs.

And I'll say this now before it drops... I see this new "jump jet boost" for assaults as just a trojan horse. Paul "the nerf god" Inouye has this giant 50 lb nerf hammer that he wants to use on the Clan weapon systems. But he needs the "OP Choir" to sing to him to do it. So... what better way to get that done than to "buff" the Clan assault 'Mechs into pop-tart nirvana! Faction Warfare will especially love this; if their piloting a Clan 'Mech that is...Until the hammer drops...

Think about how many IS assault 'Mechs have jump jets... I think there's three total... or maybe just two. Now how many Clan assault 'Mechs have jump jets? Almost every one of them! If Russ Bullock's statement holds true and they do in fact give a :BIG: boost to assault jump jet capabilities, then within the next three patches you can expect a H-E-A-V-Y nerf to the range/damage/duration of all Clan weapons. (BTW, the jump jet "buff" won't be taken away until after the Clan weapon nerf). Just sayin'...

If PGI really wants to increase TTK effectively just multiply the base armor value of each 'Mech (before quirks or S.T.) by 1.75x or 2x and make that the 'Mechs default armor value. They only need this on the mediums through assaults. The light 'Mechs already have had a 2.5x to 3x increase to their armor "to increase TTK" and "make them viable" in the game. Then remove the armor quirks, and structure quirks and add them to the Skill Tree, which is where they belong anyway. We players should be the ones that decide what buffs our 'Mechs get according to how we want to build it, not PGI.

If anyone thinks this is a lot of extra armor, just go into the Mechlab and use a calculator to figure up how much armor is actually on a 'Mech that has armor quirks (like the Atlas-D) plus the Skill Tree additions and see what you come up with. (hint, it's over 750). And how long does this 'Mech last in a battle? NOT VERY LONG! If you look at any 'Mech in game that is considered a good, solid 'Mech, it has some serious armor quirks. I believe the hero Bushwacker has been quirked to about the same armor as a Warhammer. No wonder it's a good 'Mech!

Basically, if so many 'Mechs has to have all of these armor/structure quirks to make them a good 'Mech in game, then it means that the 'Mechs don't have enough armor. So just do this to all of the mediums, heavies, and assaults. This will get rid of a lot of the "OP weapons whining" and give us some fun 'Mechs to play. It will basically re-align the mediums, heavies, and assaults to where they SHOULD be compared to the light 'Mechs; and for durability and playability in a game that has 1000 meter pin-point weapon accuracy. It would also allow PGI to just add new weapons from lore "as is" instead of nerfing their capabilities like they did the RACs when first introduced.

Edited by Captain Grayson Lighthorse, 10 April 2018 - 02:11 PM.

[NocturnalBeast]

I think TTK in MWO is fine. If you read the forums or social media for any shooter there are always players who refuse to believe that it is their lack of skill that is causing them to "die" sooner than they feel they should who are whining to increase TTK. The funny thing is, that in Fortnite (Battle Royale), you can walk around for 15 minutes before you even see another player and then you get one-shot killed by that player, yet Fortnite is the most popular shooter out right now. So really, it is only a small minority of MWO players who feel that TTK is too short and the rest of us don't want our Mechs' weapons to feel like we are shooting an M1 Abrahms tank with a BB gun.

Edited by Ed Steele, 10 April 2018 - 01:23 PM.