40 replies to this topic

[Michal R]

MWO is amazing game.
After one minute of playing you know that your team is r******d.
You see where they go, how they move, how they hide and you know you will lose, becouse enemy will have multiple angles of shooting.

Why players are soo bad? No awarnes of battlefield.

There is a level on this game that you should know how to move and play....

There should be a special tier for hiding/defensive players.

Thats why MM is a joke.

Stomp or get stomped, this is what it looks like now.

[Grus]

So, if you see 2-3-4 guys moving in a odd spot on your team you know that the other team will see that they are the "weak" side and push right? counter by pushing their now open backside and envelop....

[Dogstar]

All you are doing by firing up this thread is showing that you don't understand either the match make, tiers, or how this sort of game works.

STOMPS ARE NORMAL

I'm tired of seeing this same silly complaint again and again so I'll start a thread to explain properly.

[mailin]

Grus, on 03 March 2018 - 09:45 AM, said:

So, if you see 2-3-4 guys moving in a odd spot on your team you know that the other team will see that they are the "weak" side and push right? counter by pushing their now open backside and envelop....

I too see this. But, the real question is then, what do you do about it?
1) Get on comms and talk to them about where they are going?
2) Get on comms and point them out to your team mates so you can support them?
3) Do nothing, stay silent, or call them names in chat or on comms and then leave them to their fate?

Numbers 1 and 2 are signs of good, competent players, and number 3 is the sign of an immature player. If you do number 3 you are only contributing to your team getting stomped.

If, however you do try to talk to them and type messages in chat, try to get your team mates to help support them and no one listens or responds, then, yeah it's gonna be a stomp. Accept it and hope the next drop is better.

[Michal R]

Dogstar, on 03 March 2018 - 09:53 AM, said:

All you are doing by firing up this thread is showing that you don't understand either the match make, tiers, or how this sort of game works.

STOMPS ARE NORMAL

I'm tired of seeing this same silly complaint again and again so I'll start a thread to explain properly.

How the F**K with more than 26 millions experience points in this game I don't understand it?

Do you know how MM should work?

In theory we should have similar teams, but MM don't do it now.

You know why?

Because Tier system is one of the bigest mistake in MWO.

It's to easy to get it. And tier potato players can easy get it, without geting battlefield awarnes and needed expierience .

[DaZur]

People are human and make mistakes and exercise poor judgment?

I learned sometimes even the team potatoes, its better to waddle into the fire with them (even knowing better) than to do the right/correct thing and leave the potatoes unsupported.

[Escef]

Michal R, on 03 March 2018 - 11:21 AM, said:

How the F**K with more than 26 millions experience points in this game I don't understand it?

The same way that there are people with lots of kids, but are bad in bed.

[Spheroid]

The far more worrisome question is why people don't improve. Not in a relative fashion compared to the overall skill base, but in an absolute sense of agreed upon judgement criteria.

The same four maps are repeated ad nauseam through voting. The same obvious mistakes are seen everytime.

There are only two obvious conclusions. People are very low functioning mentally or this game has very high turn over. Those are both bad.

Stomps are indeed normal, but they need not be caused by skill deficiency. Disconnections and equipment disparity contribute greatly in any outcome. Those can't be helped. Moronic positioning certainly can.

Why do so many often state "MWO has high skill cap"? Does it really? Back in the day most games were packaged in boxes the size of a large binder and had thick printed manuals. I remember when it seemed like every third or forth game was a legitimate sim. That is in no way the case now. Games are getting more casual not less.

What is so hard to understand about a simple flank? Your fixed hitpoint pool moves into a position where you can out exchange their fixed hitpoint pool. There are some here who would have you believe that tactics used in the age of sail are equivalent to complex equations of theoretical physics!

Edited by Spheroid, 03 March 2018 - 01:42 PM.

[ramp4ge]

Spheroid, on 03 March 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

The far more worrisome question is why people don't improve.

Because they don't have to.

They can buy any mech with MC, they get plenty of c-bills even for a loss, they don't face any major (or any at all?) repair penalties. On top of that, they're destined for Tier 1 regardless of how good they play because it's nothing more than a glorified level-up system.

[Scout Derek]

Escef, on 03 March 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

The same way that there are people with lots of kids, but are bad in bed.

[Tarl Cabot]

MM deals with the hand it is dealt. It is PSR that is a joke. I have been max T1 for a long time but I am definitely NOT even close to the being the cream of the crop. I believe I am more of a low Tier 2, but I simply play enough games with enough decent MS to race to the top.

But in any game, most of the time all it takes is one person to actually take command to lead the sheep instead of most assuming others will do what the other person thinks they should be doing. You are not dropping in a team that is well oiled and everyone practically knows what is expected of them and what their team mate next to them will do.

Quote

The far more worrisome question is why people don't improve. Not in a relative fashion compared to the overall skill base, but in absolute sense of agreed upon judgement criteria.

Improve how when there is, for more games than not, no actual verbal directions? Maps are the same, most players play them the same UNLESS someone or more takes command, actual communication that most will follow.

Many here have seen the wide gulf there can be when it is a pug team full of stray cats in multiple blobs vs a pug team where one or more are providing directions, urgency when needed (push left now into that dire, push push push example).

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 03 March 2018 - 01:45 PM.

[Grus]

I mean ill agree the MM needs work. Come on there is no reason for me to get matched against Teir-up and Sustained Eye Contact over and over again.....

[Spheroid]

@Rampage: So you are saying that people are so casual that they are not effected by other human motivators? What about pride? What about competition and the love of praise? These feel good and should cause people to want to be better.

If you outscore the rest your team by a wide margin it gives you authority and power to shout down any criticism made of you. That is a petty reason, but a powerful one.

This is MechWarrior not Candy Crush. Destroying mechs is an incredible high. I can't conceive why you would want to engage combat in a lackluster fashion.

Edited by Spheroid, 03 March 2018 - 02:36 PM.

[Kubernetes]

Tarl Cabot, on 03 March 2018 - 01:43 PM, said:

Improve how when there is, for more games than not, no actual verbal directions? Maps are the same, most players play them the same UNLESS someone or more takes command, actual communication that most will follow.

Do people need verbal directions to learn basic things? What about negative feedback from dying repeatedly in inglorious fashion? You really shouldn't need a tutorial to tell you not to facetime a Dire in a medium mech-- the first few deaths should teach you Don't Do That.

MWO is just that weird game in which half the population is pig-headed and stubborn about playing like idiots. They just "want to have fun," although they can't explain how dying in the first two minutes of every match is fun. It's a damn religion for them. They'll play for years and they're no better skilled in their 10,000th drop than they were in their first. I can't even wrap my mind around the idea of doing something for years, not improving at all, and adopting a mindset that is actually hostile to the idea of improving, but MWO is filled with these wonders.

[Spare Parts Bin]

Look I am Tier5 but I want to improve. That includes changing builds,new machines and new tactics. The key is desire.

[Grus]

Spare Parts Bin, on 03 March 2018 - 02:13 PM, said:

The key is desire.

[DerHuhnTeufel]

I'd love it if it stopped matching me with people who can't break 50 damage in assault mechs.

[Escef]

Spheroid, on 03 March 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

The far more worrisome question is why people don't improve. Not in a relative fashion compared to the overall skill base, but in an absolute sense of agreed upon judgement criteria.

...

What is so hard to understand about a simple flank? Your fixed hitpoint pool moves into a position where you can out exchange their fixed hitpoint pool. There are some here who would have you believe that tactics used in the age of sail are equivalent to complex equations of theoretical physics!

Quite simply put, I think we have a lot of people that aren't terribly capable of analyzing and executing squad and company level tactics in real time. And a LOT of people that, when you ask what went wrong, will talk about what the rest of the team did wrong, but have nothing if you ask them what they personally did wrong.

I've said numerous times that I'm too aggressive. I tend to over-extend, and while looking for attack angles I go places I have no business being or continue poking around an area after I know I've been spotted. So, I can do a proper AAR (after action report) on a match and tell you both what the rest of the team did wrong AND what I personally f***ed up, a lot of people can't.

And in the heat of the moment, a LOT of people fall back to bad play habits. For me, that's over-aggression. For a lot of other players it's timidity. A great example is how many players that are really good disparage LRMs on a regular basis, yet they die to them pretty often in solo-QP because in the moment they forget everything they know about countering them, and without their regular teammates to back them up fall back on panic inspired wrong action. RJBass3 and I have been known to razz each other on this. He talks crap about LRMs, and I point out how good he is at dying to them... And they really are sub-optimal weapon system, don't get me wrong. It's just that in the zero-trust solo-QP environment people often don't coordinate to neutralize or disrupt enemy threats. LRMs are one of the easiest threats to disrupt, but it requires at least a little coordination and boldness.

And you know what? Some of these people that are like this? They're not dumb. But whatever their intellectual strengths are, they either don't apply to MWO or they don't know HOW to apply them to MWO. So, yeah, these could be people that don't have a problem working through theoretical physics, but real time tactics is alien to them.

Edited by Escef, 03 March 2018 - 02:27 PM.

[Xetelian]

As has been pointed out many times, Stomps are not caused by match making. It just isn't possible for match making to make 99% of games stomps. It was stomps when it was Elo and it is stomps with tiers so I don't know what you think they can do to change match making.

[Eirik Eriksson]

Well, I can say tier 3 is lovely nowadays. For a few games you can pretty much stand with full exposure to the enemy team dealing out the damage, and then just of a sudden you will have high level players in your game, and playing like normal, you are done for in a couple of alphas.

If any level was consistant we will adapt to it rather efficient, but the variation is hilarious. There was a day when I played enough games that I would directly recognize the opposition and adopt my playstyle to it, but nowadays I just fall short in that aspect.

Edited by Slow Speed, 03 March 2018 - 02:33 PM.