105 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

Technically according to PGI we do not have Angel ECM, though GECM functions as such.

And if GECM is going to function like AECM then it should allow streaks to dumbfire...

[El Bandito]

Khobai, on 04 March 2018 - 10:01 PM, said:

And if GECM is going to function like AECM then it should allow streaks to dumbfire...

Not when current MWO's BAP/CAP break through ECM. There is counterplay here, unlike in Sarna where they cannot break through AECM.

Edited by El Bandito, 04 March 2018 - 10:05 PM.

[Bombast]

Samial, on 04 March 2018 - 09:53 PM, said:

Yes they do...

Name one person who has said they think they're a better person than you. One.

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Having customers like you here attacking everything people bring up be it good or bad opinion wise just ruins the game even further and defeats the purpose of a forum.

Having customers constantly trying to make this game worse by suggesting bad changes without fundamental knowledge of the game itself ruins the game further.

A forum is a place of discussion. We discuss things. If you feel like you're being attacked, its only because you're so wrong you've someone unified this fractured place against you.

On a more personal level, people go on the offense against you because you absolute refuse to back up any of your suggestions or claims, and refuse to try new things and improve. If you showed even a ounce of willingness to learn or consider that maybe its your play at fault, not the game, people would be a lot more understanding. But you aren't, and so we will keep exposing your arguments and claims for what they are - unsupported junk.

Edited by Bombast, 04 March 2018 - 10:06 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

"By lore" is a terrible way to balance a game.

For example, by lore, machine guns deal as much dps as an ac5 and can shred armor and internals alike up close. Considering you had a problem with nut hugging lights in a previous thread, i don't understand your "by lore" arguments.

By lore, clan mechs are also three times (or about) as powerful as an inner sphere mech.

By lore, customized mechs with engine and weapon/heatsink changes were also rare.

By lore, the grinner is a clan upgraded mech. Here it's inner sphere tech.

By lore, a rifleman can walk backwards with its guns facing backwards as well and turn around and kill an enemy mech through the cockpit with a single round like kai allard liao did to win his solaris title the first time.

We can't balance "by lore" because lore gives insanely poor balance in the first place.

This is a mechwarrior game, not a battletech one. It's based on that universe, but we left lore values behind cos they were a burden to have in a game that requires balance.

Most importantly though, you're striking me as a "lore by convenience" kind of guy. Where you deliberately ignore certain lore but deliberately push the lore agenda when it suits your convenience. You're doing a really bad job at hiding your agenda, which is to make things as easy as possible for yourself.

You're not looking for balance. You're using certain pieces of lore as the excuse to push for gameplay changes that give yourself an advantage.

[Khobai]

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Not when current MWO's BAP/CAP break through ECM. There is counterplay here, unlike in Sarna where they cannot break through AECM.

BAP only needs to break through ECM because ECM does things it shouldnt do in the first place

if things didnt do what they werent supposed to do it wouldnt be a problem

[PocketYoda]

Bombast, on 04 March 2018 - 10:05 PM, said:

Name one person who has said they think they're a better person than you. One.



Having customers constantly trying to make this game worse by suggesting bad changes without fundamental knowledge of the game itself ruins the game further.

A forum is a place of discussion. We discuss things. If you feel like you're being attacked, its only because you're so wrong you've someone unified this fractured place against you.

On a more personal level, people go on the offense against you because you absolute refuse to back up any of your suggestions or claims, and refuse to try new things and improve. If you showed even a ounce of willingness to learn or consider that maybe its your play at fault, not the game, people would be a lot more understanding. But you aren't, and so we will keep exposing your arguments and claims for what they are - unsupported junk.

Spheriod, Brain Cancer, EL Bandito, Noni, Champion of Khorne, Unofficial Operator, You and a hoard of others not to mention all the rest condescending everyone who isn't in the cool kids click with stupid memes and worse putting customers down by linking that ******** Jarls list and calling customers potatoes and bads..

Seriously acting like a bunch of 5 year olds when ever anyone asks for changes or brings up balance issues or puts up ideas you people don't agree with..

I don't see much from you either buddy other than putting others down for at least attempting

Edited by Samial, 04 March 2018 - 11:12 PM.

[dario03]

Streaks need a re work or re balancing against the weight classes before they get any kind of straight up buff.

So I'm going with no.

Edited by dario03, 04 March 2018 - 11:03 PM.

[El Bandito]

Khobai, on 04 March 2018 - 10:44 PM, said:

BAP only needs to break through ECM because ECM does things it shouldnt do in the first place

if things didnt do what they werent supposed to do it wouldnt be a problem

Been asking to revert GECM function to canon one since 2012. PGI didn't do it, so live with what you have.

[Bombast]

Samial, on 04 March 2018 - 10:52 PM, said:

Spheriod, Brain Cancer, EL Bandito, Noni, Champion of Khorne, You and a hoard of others not to mention all the rest condescending everyone who isn't in the cool kids click with stupid memes and worse putting customers down by linking that ******** Jarls list and calling customers potatoes and bads..

That is all related to ingame performance. None of that has anything to do with you as a person. It has to do with you as a mechwarrior.

If you think your personal worth and your worth as a mechwarrior in this game are linked, thats on you, not us.

Samial, on 04 March 2018 - 10:52 PM, said:

Seriously acting like a bunch of 5 year olds when ever anyone asks for changes or brings up balance issues or puts up ideas you people don't agree with..

Disagreeing with you and providing evidence is not 'acting like a 5 year old.'

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I don't see much from you either buddy other than putting others down for at least attempting

Attempting what, to nerf underperforming weight classes or to undermine weapon differentiation because someone can't be bothered to equip sensor equipment?

dario03, on 04 March 2018 - 10:55 PM, said:

Streaks need a re work or re balancing against the weight classes before they get any kind of straight up buff.

So I'm going with no.

Missile spread was just reworked, partially for that reason, I believe. I am unaware if its had the desired effect.

Edited by Bombast, 04 March 2018 - 11:06 PM.

[PocketYoda]

Bombast, on 04 March 2018 - 11:05 PM, said:

That is all related to ingame performance. None of that has anything to do with you as a person. It has to do with you as a mechwarrior.

If you think your personal worth and your worth as a mechwarrior in this game are linked, thats on you, not us.

Disagreeing with you and providing evidence is not 'acting like a 5 year old.'

Nope its very much personal attacks..

You skill level in a game has zero to do a forum, just because someones not very good does not mean they can't see issues with a fracking game..

Disagreeing and posting up inane memes and having your friends like it very much is though. Especially with no data and info to back up your bull ****.

Edited by Samial, 04 March 2018 - 11:16 PM.

[Bombast]

Samial, on 04 March 2018 - 11:16 PM, said:

Nope its very much personal attacks..

I'm sorry you feel that way. Tough, though.

Quote

You skill level in a game has zero to do a forum, just because someones not very good does not mean they can't see issues with a fracking game..

Not being at the top doesn't mean you don't know how things work. Being at the bottom and refusing to try new tactics generally isn't favorable to your position. You don't get accounting advice from the guy who failed arithmetic class.

Quote

Disagreeing and posting up inane memes and having your friends like it very much is though.

I do occasionally post funny things to break up the dreariness that is this place of terribleness, yes. I do not 'get my friends' to like it though. I don't actually have any 'friends' on this forum. The people I play with (Or hang out with Discord with, anyway) generally avoid this place like the plague.

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Especially with no data and info to back up your bull ****.

I provide numbers all the time. When's the last time you did so? I've asked you several times, but you just retreat to the "You're being mean so you're wrong" defense.

[PocketYoda]

Bombast, on 04 March 2018 - 11:21 PM, said:

I'm sorry you feel that way. Tough, though.



Not being at the top doesn't mean you don't know how things work. Being at the bottom and refusing to try new tactics generally isn't favorable to your position. You don't get accounting advice from the guy who failed arithmetic class.



I do occasionally post funny things to break up the dreariness that is this place of terribleness, yes. I do not 'get my friends' to like it though. I don't actually have any 'friends' on this forum. The people I play with (Or hang out with Discord with, anyway) generally avoid this place like the plague.



I provide numbers all the time. When's the last time you did so? I've asked you several times, but you just retreat to the "You're being mean so you're wrong" defense.

In the future i'll attempt to put data then i'll get ridiculed anyway.

[Bombast]

Samial, on 04 March 2018 - 11:31 PM, said:

In the future i'll attempt to put data then i'll get ridiculed anyway.

If you post numbers (That aren't pulled out of the aether), even if people don't agree with them, people wont ridicule you. We just want something besides 'It killed me a bunch, nerf it.'

Who knows, maybe if you actually start gathering data, you'll change your own mind, or find something out people here can actually agree on.

[dario03]

Bombast, on 04 March 2018 - 11:05 PM, said:

Missile spread was just reworked, partially for that reason, I believe. I am unaware if its had the desired effect.

I would lean toward it not. Haven't played much since then but lights can't really take a hit anywhere so making it more torso centric just makes it so they are killed by torso instead of by legs now, not really a nerf (possibly even buffed since a rear torso hit will hurt). However it is a buff vs bigger mechs so there is less risk to taking them now. So you end up with more streaks and they still primary lights since the auto aim of the weapon negates the big part of a brawling lights defense.

My suggestion remains having spread based on weight, even spread against smaller mechs, more torso focus against bigger mechs, and then lower damage. Also lower the alpha of streaks and require them to be more dps focused. First one might require a bit of work to put in but we did have different sensor ranges based on mechs in a pts before. Second suggestion would be an easier change and would give you time to disengage and require the streakboat to expose more when getting indirect locks.

Edited by dario03, 05 March 2018 - 12:18 AM.

[Vellron2005]

The GaussFather, on 04 March 2018 - 07:09 PM, said:

As the thread says... I'm finding streaks to be less and less interesting as a weapon.

First, so much ecm now so you struggle to get the lock or the light or other fast mover is on you before you get that lock... or you turned the corner and whoops... there is the mech face to face with you...

Secondly, every other missile can "dumb fire" -- including LRMs and ATMs that need a lock...

So why not let Streaks dumb-fire like SRMs if you don't have a lock? I think it would make them a better option because right now for Clan mechs ATMs or SRMs seem better, and for IS the weight penalty compared to SRMs plus the inability to fire quickly or unguided makes SRMs more interesting.

Was thinking about this after I switched from streaks to ATMs on my Scorch and we played a round of Escort. I could spam the ECM Atlas with unguided ATMs but would not have had that option with streaks... so why run streaks because half the time they wind up hitting more obstacles before they hit the target even when you manage a lock. With ATMs you get more arc, can fire over obstacles, and you can fire unguided.

Now, first thing this forum full of Tier 1 forum posters is going to do is say stuff like: use BAP, add a tag, then you don't have to wait for locks etc etc. (Forgot to write launching UAVs, thanks nehebkau for mentioning that one... truly revolutionary tip.)

Please don't tell me how to use streaks better... I can use them but I find them now to be the worst missile weapon in the game... unless you have a fast streak crow (boating them) and they are my last pick as a missile weapon (as a secondary weapon).

Just tell me why we should or should not be able to dumb fire them without a lock as SRMs?

If you let streaks fire unguided, then SRMs have no reason to exist.. so no.

Edited by Vellron2005, 05 March 2018 - 12:04 AM.

[Brain Cancer]

Khobai, on 04 March 2018 - 09:48 PM, said:

Streaks are only designed to not waste ammo if they can get a lock

If they cant get a lock, being able to dumbfire is still better than not being able to fire at all

and thats a capability streak should have

That's basically the point. Lockon weapons shouldn't be even bothered by ECM, unless you're talking super-powerful Angel ECM...which never really gets into production due to hideous costs.

The whole "ECM denies locks" in MWO just isn't very fun at all, considering it hard counters Streaks and screws with weapons that it barely has any interaction with in the first place. Hosing Artemis? Yes. NARC? Absolutely. Disabling weapons that it should have no interaction whatsoever with? Pathetic.

[Dogstar]

Samial, on 04 March 2018 - 11:31 PM, said:

In the future i'll attempt to put data then i'll get ridiculed anyway.

That's because your data, like your 'skills' at debating (or playing this game), will be full of silly assumptions and errors. You're getting ridiculed because you're acting like a self-absorbed idiot with his fingers in his ears chanting 'I can't hear you'. It's like the MWO equivalent of an anti-vaxxer with a sickly child.

[justcallme A S H]

First it was piranhas and now it's firing SSRM without locks?


Someone has really upset this Mechdad huh!

[Lugin]

Khobai, on 04 March 2018 - 09:58 PM, said:

nope go read the rules for angel ecm

makes it very clear that streaks jammed by angel ecm fire like standard SRMs

Not quite correct.

Tactical Operpations, pg 279 said:

ANGEL ECM SUITE

Rules Level: Experimental
Available To: BM, IM, CV, SV, BA, AF, CF, SC, DS, MS
Tech Base (Ratings): Both (F/X-X-F)

Game Rules: The Angel ECM Suite works like standard ECM (see p. 134, TW), but can also block the Bloodhound Active Probe, Artemis V and C3 Booster Systems, and even negates the locking systems of Streak missiles. Streak missiles fired into or through a hostile Angel ECM bubble will not fire if the to-hit roll fails, but on a successful Streak launcher attack, the attacker must roll on the Cluster table as though the launcher were a standard (non-Streak) model.

Units with multiple ECM suites (of any type) may use only one at a time in game play. Fighters, Small Craft, DropShips and other airborne units may only use ECM suites when interacting with ground units, or in accordance with the advanced rules for aerospace combat covered in Strategic Operations.

Units equipped with Stealth Armor can use the Angel ECM in place of the Guardian ECM for the same effect, using the same rules.

A Streak launcher WILL NOT FIRE WITHOUT LOCK. Angel ECM does NOT cancel this. Anytime a Streak missile passes through an Angel bubble, it must now roll on the cluster table just like the standard version. So it goes from "lock to fire, every missile hits when it fires," to "lock to fire, roll cluster table like for standard."

Edited by Lugin, 05 March 2018 - 01:34 AM.

[Xetelian]

Vellron2005, on 05 March 2018 - 12:04 AM, said:

If you let streaks fire unguided, then SRMs have no reason to exist.. so no.

Less weight
Less Spread
More damage

I think SSRMs would have a hard time competing with SRMs even if you could dumbfire them.