105 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

A Streak launcher WILL NOT FIRE WITHOUT LOCK. Angel ECM does NOT cancel this. Anytime a Streak missile passes through an Angel bubble, it must now roll on the cluster table just like the standard version. So it goes from "lock to fire, every missile hits when it fires," to "lock to fire, roll cluster table like for standard."

read it again. it specifically says it negates the locking systems of streaks. so obviously the streaks are firing without a lock.

"Game Rules: The Angel ECM Suite works like standard ECM (see p. 134, TW), but can also block the Bloodhound Active Probe, Artemis V and C3 Booster Systems, and even negates the locking systems of Streak missiles. Streak missiles fired into or through a hostile Angel ECM bubble will not fire if the to-hit roll fails, but on a successful Streak launcher attack, the attacker must roll on the Cluster table as though the launcher were a standard (non-Streak) model."

Edited by Khobai, 05 March 2018 - 02:49 AM.

[Lugin]

Khobai, on 05 March 2018 - 02:46 AM, said:

read it again. it specifically says it negates the locking systems of streaks. so obviously the streaks are firing without a lock.

"Game Rules: The Angel ECM Suite works like standard ECM (see p. 134, TW), but can also block the Bloodhound Active Probe, Artemis V and C3 Booster Systems, and even negates the locking systems of Streak missiles. Streak missiles fired into or through a hostile Angel ECM bubble will not fire if the to-hit roll fails, but on a successful Streak launcher attack, the attacker must roll on the Cluster table as though the launcher were a standard (non-Streak) model."

Read the sentence AFTER the one you underlined. Y'know, where it gives the details.

"Streak missiles fired into or through a hostile Angel ECM bubble will not fire if the to-hit roll fails, but on a successful Streak launcher attack, the attacker must roll on the Cluster table as though the launcher were a standard (non-Streak) model."

What's happening is the datalink between the launcher and missiles is disrupted by the bubble, so the missiles fall back to the simpler but more robust standard guidance.
Hence the normal "Streaks won't fire on a miss" lock requirement, but then having to roll clusters like a standard launcher.

Edited by Lugin, 05 March 2018 - 03:03 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

What's happening is the datalink between the launcher and missiles is disrupted by the bubble

yes it turns streaks into normal srms

and the way you would translate that into MWO is to allow streaks to dumbfire. since normal srms dumbfire in MWO.

forcing streaks to have a lock to fire makes no sense whatsoever. other missiles in MWO dont have that limitation. theres no special reason streaks should be limited like that.

im not saying they should dumbfire as well as SRMs, give them worse spread. But they should be able to dumbfire.

Edited by Khobai, 05 March 2018 - 03:12 AM.

[Vellron2005]

Khobai, on 05 March 2018 - 03:09 AM, said:

yes it turns streaks into normal srms

and the way you would translate that into MWO is to allow streaks to dumbfire. since normal srms dumbfire in MWO.

forcing streaks to have a lock to fire makes no sense whatsoever. other missiles in MWO dont have that limitation. theres no special reason streaks should be limited like that.

im not saying they should dumbfire as well as SRMs, give them worse spread. But they should be able to dumbfire.

if you ask me, by this logic, there's no reason why there should he any SRM, SSRM, or MRM, when we have LRMs that do all damage in their whole range, above 180 meters..

Just remove min range from LRMs and you don't need any other missile in the game. Do the same with ATM's and make them indirect, and you don't even need LRMs..

Dumbfireing SSRM would directly make SRM obsolete..

it's kinda silly, I know.. but BT is an ancient system.. much of which doesn't make sense in modern times.

Edited by Vellron2005, 05 March 2018 - 03:39 AM.

[Lugin]

Khobai, on 05 March 2018 - 03:09 AM, said:

yes it turns streaks into normal srms

and the way you would translate that into MWO is to allow streaks to dumbfire. since normal srms dumbfire in MWO.

forcing streaks to have a lock to fire makes no sense whatsoever. other missiles in MWO dont have that limitation. theres no special reason streaks should be limited like that.

im not saying they should dumbfire as well as SRMs, give them worse spread. But they should be able to dumbfire.

AFTER. LAUNCH. Not before.

Streaks BY DEFINITION AND DESIGN require a lock. It is a an ammo conservation system that WILL NOT FIRE without receiving lock confirmation from each tube.

[PocketYoda]

Bombast, on 04 March 2018 - 11:53 PM, said:

If you post numbers (That aren't pulled out of the aether), even if people don't agree with them, people wont ridicule you. We just want something besides 'It killed me a bunch, nerf it.'

Who knows, maybe if you actually start gathering data, you'll change your own mind, or find something out people here can actually agree on.

You're so full of yourself you wouldn't know the difference either way.

Dogstar, on 05 March 2018 - 12:45 AM, said:

That's because your data, like your 'skills' at debating (or playing this game), will be full of silly assumptions and errors. You're getting ridiculed because you're acting like a self-absorbed idiot with his fingers in his ears chanting 'I can't hear you'. It's like the MWO equivalent of an anti-vaxxer with a sickly child.

Feel better now..

Edited by Samial, 05 March 2018 - 03:51 AM.

[Kroete]

The GaussFather, on 04 March 2018 - 07:09 PM, said:

Just tell me why we should or should not be able to dumb fire them without a lock as SRMs?

Wrong question!

Better ask: Why are there 2 gamemodes with unbreakable hardcounters for 18 weapons?

[Kotzi]

We could also scrap Mechwarrior out of the title, give each weapon class one type with the same attributes and call it a shooter. SRMs are different to SSRMs, each have their pro and contra. You can lead your aim, want less weight and faster reload take srms. You want to be very effective against lights and want higher hitchance with higher reload time take SSRMs. Why do we have to change everything to be identical? So you are screwed when you meet anything else than a light with your streakboat. **** happens, try to run or going down in a blaze and carry on. It is ok for weapons to be not good in any situation, karma is a {Dezgra}.

[DerHuhnTeufel]

Kroete, on 05 March 2018 - 04:21 AM, said:

Wrong question!

Better ask: Why are there 2 gamemodes with unbreakable hardcounters for 18 weapons?

Weightless counter to ECM: UAV
Light weight, low slot count counters to ECM - Tag, BAP, clan probes, friendly ECM
Counters to ECM you probably shouldn't use - NARC
Counters to ECM you're probably already using - PPC of any sort

Nothing unbreakable about it.

[Seranov]

Samial, on 04 March 2018 - 09:53 PM, said:

Yes they do, and who cares how good a person is at a virtual game designed for enjoyment, we are here for a good time at any skill level, we are here on the forums because we arent happy with the games direction one way or another..

Having customers like you here attacking everything people bring up be it good or bad opinion wise just ruins the game even further and defeats the purpose of a forum.

Because the issues you are having are related directly to your skill level, and not any built-in features. More experienced players have attempted to help you many, many times, and you have brushed them off and continued to wallow in your inability to get better or even understand what the problem is. People can only try and help the ignorant so many times before it becomes clear that it's actually stupidity at work.

[TWIAFU]

The GaussFather, on 04 March 2018 - 08:13 PM, said:

And LRMs are allowed to dumb-fire because?

Same reason you don't need lock to fire AC's.


You a member of the PAWG Secret Society?

[TWIAFU]

Khobai, on 05 March 2018 - 03:09 AM, said:

forcing streaks to have a lock to fire makes no sense whatsoever. other missiles in MWO dont have that limitation. theres no special reason streaks should be limited like that.

I can think of one special reason, the one reason that matters, really the only reason.

Battletech.

It is THE reason we are here.

You don't like the ruleset this game tries to adhere to after all this time, few choices;

1. Accept it and move on.
2. Change to a different weapon system that does what you want, lot's to choose from.
3. Find a game with more bland, vanilla, and LCD play.

[Nesutizale]

Streaks firing ungiuded....simply no. They are ment to be fired guided and thats it.
For problems with ECM you can counter it with your own or use a TAG. I found TAG+Streaks to be quite a nice combination actualy.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

no offense, but..

why do we discuss this, acutally?
from the other thread of this dude -and I put this as objectively and polite as possible- he clearly shows NO interest in adopting/improving/learning, and the same here.

so.. don't know, but isn't there a saying "don't feed the X", where X might be unpolite, but probably true?

[The GaussFather]

Kroete, on 05 March 2018 - 04:21 AM, said:

Wrong question!

Better ask: Why are there 2 gamemodes with unbreakable hardcounters for 18 weapons?

Hi, I get the counter idea but not sure I know all 18 you are thinking of... do you mind listing them?

[The GaussFather]

Nesutizale, on 05 March 2018 - 06:45 AM, said:

Streaks firing ungiuded....simply no. They are ment to be fired guided and thats it.
For problems with ECM you can counter it with your own or use a TAG. I found TAG+Streaks to be quite a nice combination actualy.

I also use tag plus streaks... tag is the best lrm/streak asset for 1 ton that you can mount. And adding Artemis speeds up lock time at no weight penalty for streaks too... somehow people forget that it wasn't supposed to work like that but somehow this game is like a holy work to some people... "Streaks that fire straight without lock!!?? Blasphemy! Burn the heretic!"

Artemis effecting Streak lock time - not the way its supposed to be in lore? Oh that's great! No issue there... (looks the other way)

So someone said I'm posting because I want to annoy people and don't care about the game. That's not true at all. I post because I think its a good idea to make the game more fun for "average players" and then people start posting a lot of aggressive and annoying comments... which will bring out the worst in me and probably many other people.

I get that there is a really competitive hardcore crew that plays MWO and studies it a lot more than I do. Great! That's why they made faction play and private matches etc. Those modes aren't for the casual player.... I used to drop alot as a member of Sons of Odin and they are a great bunch of guys -- makes the game much more fun.

In fact, most of those guys would behave a lot classier than people posting on this thread and my thread about Piranhas being too OP with 12MGs... so whatever it's "just a game". It needs to evolve and it will evolve or die. My suggestion won't make OR break the game.

Edited by The GaussFather, 05 March 2018 - 02:02 PM.

[The GaussFather]

Wil McCullough, on 04 March 2018 - 10:33 PM, said:

"By lore" is a terrible way to balance a game.

For example, by lore, machine guns deal as much dps as an ac5 and can shred armor and internals alike up close. Considering you had a problem with nut hugging lights in a previous thread, i don't understand your "by lore" arguments.

By lore, clan mechs are also three times (or about) as powerful as an inner sphere mech.

By lore, customized mechs with engine and weapon/heatsink changes were also rare.

By lore, the grinner is a clan upgraded mech. Here it's inner sphere tech.

By lore, a rifleman can walk backwards with its guns facing backwards as well and turn around and kill an enemy mech through the cockpit with a single round like kai allard liao did to win his solaris title the first time.

We can't balance "by lore" because lore gives insanely poor balance in the first place.

This is a mechwarrior game, not a battletech one. It's based on that universe, but we left lore values behind cos they were a burden to have in a game that requires balance.

Most importantly though, you're striking me as a "lore by convenience" kind of guy. Where you deliberately ignore certain lore but deliberately push the lore agenda when it suits your convenience. You're doing a really bad job at hiding your agenda, which is to make things as easy as possible for yourself.

You're not looking for balance. You're using certain pieces of lore as the excuse to push for gameplay changes that give yourself an advantage.

Hi, not sure if you are referring to me... I don't recall being a big lore pusher or lore quoter.

In fact I barely read it other than look up the occassional mech on sarna. You are actually making my point for me. If it makes the game better and makes the play experience better/more exciting then don't play "lore police" and knock it down because it violates the holy "lore".

MWO is a frustrating game for a lot of players and the learning curve is pretty steep. I'm not making a suggestions that will suddenly make the game so much easier for me and suddenly change my kill ratio to 1.2 or whatever it needs to be so I can brag about it. If you didn't notice from my handle, I prefer BALLISTIC weapons over missiles. Out of the last 100 or so matches I might have played 5 with streaks... because they pretty much suck except for certain builds or situations. Now that IS has SSRM6 at least I took a second look at them... still find them less interesting than SRMs, MRMs, ATMs, and LRMs....

But hey, if you want to cast stones go right ahead, its your right to post and time well spent.

[The GaussFather]

Seranov, on 05 March 2018 - 05:44 AM, said:

Because the issues you are having are related directly to your skill level, and not any built-in features. More experienced players have attempted to help you many, many times, and you have brushed them off and continued to wallow in your inability to get better or even understand what the problem is. People can only try and help the ignorant so many times before it becomes clear that it's actually stupidity at work.

So guys, I'm thinking you are being pretty hard on Samiel, somehow he's the black sheep that everyone is trying to coach? Oh I get it, all those suggestions weren't really coaching, they were more like backseat driving or something? Have you guys actually tried to help him or is it just a "figure of speech"? "Wallow in his inability to get better."

I have to remember that one next time I'm coaching football: Hey kid, stop wallowing in your inability to get better and listen to me because I tired of repeating that you are stupid and hopeless. Shape up or you are off the team! -- Great coaching!

Edited by The GaussFather, 05 March 2018 - 02:19 PM.

[The GaussFather]

Vellron2005, on 05 March 2018 - 12:04 AM, said:

If you let streaks fire unguided, then SRMs have no reason to exist.. so no.

Sure they would, SRMs are lighter, have faster speed and shorter cool down times. I would be fine if the cool down time for IS streaks was increased if they allowed them to dumb fire. ATMs didn't replace LRMs in the game, people still use them. I think brawlers would still want SRMs over Streaks that could dumb fire.

Does anyone think streaks will be used in Solaris? Unless its mixed classes and you know you will be fighting lights I seriously doubt it. SRMs all the way!

[The GaussFather]

Bombast, on 04 March 2018 - 11:05 PM, said:

That is all related to ingame performance. None of that has anything to do with you as a person. It has to do with you as a mechwarrior.

If you think your personal worth and your worth as a mechwarrior in this game are linked, thats on you, not us.

So that's the root of your criticisms?

We are "not worthy" to be mechwarriors? That doesn't sound arrogant at all does it?

Please join us if you are WORTHY, the Knights of the Round Mechwarrior Table. Only the most worthy and virtuous may join!

Remember that mantra I was telling you about (take a deep breath): "It's just a game... it's just a game..."

I have to say I'm glad you exposed how superior you feel about yourself, Mr. Most Worthy Mechwarrior.

Please, now go try to buy a car or cheeseburger with that most worthy Mechwarrior job title... or maybe get into a college with it? Not working? Dang it -- all that time becoming "Most Worthy" at Mechwarrior and all it let's you do is post on this forum and launch in the game....

But wait, I can also post, so I too must be worthy! And I can also launch and play the game just like you! So can Samiel, so I guess we are worthy after all because our $$ spends just the same as yours according to PGI. Hate to break it to you.

Edited by The GaussFather, 05 March 2018 - 02:41 PM.