99 replies to this topic

[Phlynn]

I find that LRMs are only really useful in the 200-400 range. Most times they are the most dangerous weapon to use because you are spending 2-3 or so seconds waiting for a lock while face tanking the heat negative ballistic builds, twisting and popping laser builds, and mg spam.

The weapon can no longer defend mechs that are the "boat" build - which it could at one time. You don't find ballistic or laser builds that can't defend themselves based on built in game mechanics. And the silly amount of counters means a player using them had best have some skill.

I do find it funny that my pure lrm 5 hit rate in just over 36% while the lrm 5 with artimis is just over 35% - it makes me wonder what the extra weight is buying me...

[Yosharian]

kailii, on 05 March 2018 - 03:38 PM, said:

We got a Catapult Trial Mech right now, and i took her for some rides a few days ago to test current LRMs.
She got 2xLRM-15 and 2xSRM-6 with Artemis.

In QP i scored 600ish damage a few times with most of it done by the LRMs, so i would consider the current state of LRMs as "just fine". If you know how to use them. Most younger players don't and i believe that's why those players are shunned.

So let's sum it up again, maybe someone in need to know even reads this post... In QP, you...

1) Never plan to fire near maximum range. The red guy will have ample time to get into cover or you might lose your lock. Never rely on a lock provided by some random stranger.
2) Stay with the pack. Don't you ever get caught alone. Light Mechs might take you as a snack.
3) Always carry extra weapons, as in fast and short ranged. See 2)
4) Never fire just because you got a lock. Read the map. Predict movements. Zoom in to see if AMS fires. Did your last salvo hit your target? This all takes practise but is also very rewarding.
5) Mid- to endgame, your LRMs are depleted. Guess who is leading the push? Think about it...

The only thing that i don't like about LRMs these days is AMS, because the more you need it (Lights and Mediums without cover to rush to) the more you are hurt by installing it regarding of limited room to do so. Maybe LRM spread should increase a little based on the size of the target...

I'm not surprised you can do 600 damage in an LRM catapult in Tier 4

[BreakinStuff]

Yosharian, on 05 March 2018 - 05:14 PM, said:

I'm not surprised you can do 600 damage in an LRM catapult in Tier 4

Value judgments based on T4 and 5 play are hilarious.

If you're a LRM boater the moment you drop out of tier 4 your average LRM boat score outside specific maps (Polar Highlands) drops by 50-75%, and often you are lucky to hit 300 damage.

T4 and 5 the enemies don't respond correctly to LRM spam. This creates grossly inflated damage numbers across the board.

[C H E E K I E Z]

Lrms are not bad, its stupidly the hardest weapon platform to use, because you not only have to worry about your positioning, but your oponents, the terrian, the arc of your missles, if there is AMS, If you can hold your lock etc, Yes they spread, yes they hit walls, yes if your positioning is bad in brawls they are bad, but they are some of the best weapons in brawls if your team knows how to play with you.

This is a solo drop in a lrm Orion iic in QP. no narcs no tags no thing. Yea we lost, but with this team there was no winning.

Edited by C H E E K I E Z, 05 March 2018 - 05:49 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

OK, I see an immense amount of damage for...three kills. You really gotta put your own stats up to show what really happened there. I see three dead assaults there, which are damage sinks if you did the job considering how many missiles you have to put into even one.

[Lightfoot]

C H E E K I E Z, on 05 March 2018 - 05:48 PM, said:

Lrms are not bad, its stupidly the hardest weapon platform to use, because you not only have to worry about your positioning, but your oponents, the terrian, the arc of your missles, if there is AMS, If you can hold your lock etc, Yes they spread, yes they hit walls, yes if your positioning is bad in brawls they are bad, but they are some of the best weapons in brawls if your team knows how to play with you.

This is a solo drop in a lrm Orion iic in QP. no narcs no tags no thing. Yea we lost, but with this team there was no winning.

You had 4xLRM20 or LRM15 I assume judging by the damage? I just think the way to re-balance LRMs is to have them be better the fewer missile tubes you have on the mech since.... PGI seems to want to cap maximum damage on 4xLRM20 etc. Fine, but that shouldn't disqualify mechs with 2 missile hardpoints from using LRMs effectively.

[Finring]

I find it's not hard to do consistently good damage, not 1700 damage good, but in the 600+ range with LRMs. What I do find is a lack of kills with them. Not too long ago I put about 350 missiles into a bushwacker at around 500m. Had LOS with atamus and had him tagged. Yup you guessed it, did not kill him. Stripped him of all but head armor but no kill.

I don't think LRMs need too much of a tweek. Maybe just a slight decrease in spread.

[Bishop Steiner]

Samial, on 05 March 2018 - 03:46 AM, said:

Good those weapons are best left at home.

and why is that? "Cuz dey don't take my idea of skillz 2 use?"

[Jackal Noble]

C H E E K I E Z, on 05 March 2018 - 05:48 PM, said:

Lrms are not bad, its stupidly the hardest weapon platform to use, because you not only have to worry about your positioning, but your oponents, the terrian, the arc of your missles, if there is AMS, If you can hold your lock etc, Yes they spread, yes they hit walls, yes if your positioning is bad in brawls they are bad, but they are some of the best weapons in brawls if your team knows how to play with you.

This is a solo drop in a lrm Orion iic in QP. no narcs no tags no thing. Yea we lost, but with this team there was no winning.

And yet this "no skill" team allowed your lrm boat to survive long enough to shoot that many missiles. lol. never change.

[Bishop Steiner]

JackalBeast, on 05 March 2018 - 09:30 PM, said:

And yet this "no skill" team allowed your lrm boat to survive long enough to shoot that many missiles. lol. never change.

looks like he graduated from the Bandito School of Use Your Team As Meatshields to Pad Your Stats.

Nothing new there.

[Yosharian]

BreakinStuff, on 05 March 2018 - 05:36 PM, said:

Value judgments based on T4 and 5 play are hilarious.

If you're a LRM boater the moment you drop out of tier 4 your average LRM boat score outside specific maps (Polar Highlands) drops by 50-75%, and often you are lucky to hit 300 damage.

T4 and 5 the enemies don't respond correctly to LRM spam. This creates grossly inflated damage numbers across the board.

Soo... you're agreeing with me?

Edited by Yosharian, 05 March 2018 - 10:37 PM.

[Sjorpha]

JackalBeast, on 05 March 2018 - 09:30 PM, said:

And yet this "no skill" team allowed your lrm boat to survive long enough to shoot that many missiles. lol. never change.

Bishop Steiner, on 05 March 2018 - 10:07 PM, said:

looks like he graduated from the Bandito School of Use Your Team As Meatshields to Pad Your Stats.

Nothing new there.

You haven't played with cheekiez if you think that.

[Knuckles OTool]

Highest damage in a brawler build scorch srm6a and lbx20 = 1350 with 7 kills.

Highest damage in the same mech with an atm build (+1ermed lol) 1450 and I had 0 kills. To be fair when I atm people I still tank too much and I Always Have lock so paper doll showing little or no weapons on a mech and I will switch targets to something worth the time. The team mates can finish that thing later. With brawl builds I usually shoot it once more because it is in the way. Obviously racking up kills helps tremendously but damage is what leads to those kills. I am pretty sure I have way more 1k+ damage games in the atm boat. Need those cbills.

This may happen with the good players as well when they're on their artillery so its hard to tell.

Neither build is particularly easier to play than the other, but you get higher average damage with the missiles as sometimes you get stuck into two teams range trading for days. You know what's really easy to play. My laser hellbringer. That's for zoning out and just pew pewing.

I imagine most players that play any amount play every different type of mech and weapon system at least every so often.

Edited by Knuckles OTool, 06 March 2018 - 12:40 AM.

[Vellron2005]

Knuckles OTool, on 06 March 2018 - 12:38 AM, said:

Highest damage in a brawler build scorch srm6a and lbx20 = 1350 with 7 kills.

Highest damage in the same mech with an atm build (+1ermed lol) 1450 and I had 0 kills.

Personally, I find an increase in damage isn't directly linked to build. For instance, I was using a LRM80+4xCERSL Supernova with 2500 ammo. With that, I did solid 2000 damage FP games, or 1200-1400 damage QP games. But it chewed through ammo like tic-tacks

Then I dropped down to LRM70 and invested the tonnage into extra ammo, pumping it up to 3500 missiles, and the first FP game after this was my first 3000+ damage game.

So sometimes, damage simply depends on available ammo...

I still manage to spend it all.. cose' now, I know I have loads, so I'm not as careful with my shots as before..

Edited by Vellron2005, 06 March 2018 - 01:40 AM.

[PurplePuke]

Savage Wolf, on 05 March 2018 - 03:40 AM, said:

AMS is also a huge problem for the game. If ever LRMs become useful, people will stock up on AMS and then LRMs are useless again, unless AMS was nerfed to uselessness, but then what is the point. Same with ECM.

Just like when laser vomit is overused people use it's counter called... oh right, it has none. Neither has balistics.

Missilies is the only category with counter equipment in the game and that basically means that missiles will always be a circumstantial choice while lasers will always work.

So either all weapon types should have a counter or AMS needs to go.

That's kind of silly. The counter to lasers and ballistics is that you have to expose yourself to the enemy.

[Lightfoot]

Finring, on 05 March 2018 - 09:27 PM, said:

I find it's not hard to do consistently good damage, not 1700 damage good, but in the 600+ range with LRMs. What I do find is a lack of kills with them. Not too long ago I put about 350 missiles into a bushwacker at around 500m. Had LOS with atamus and had him tagged. Yup you guessed it, did not kill him. Stripped him of all but head armor but no kill.

I don't think LRMs need too much of a tweek. Maybe just a slight decrease in spread.

What does this is a LRM stat that is not tracked. Seems like it is on purpose, but maybe the result of something else. The stat is the degrees offset from straight on that LRMs will still hit the center torso. Prior to January 2015 the angle was a logical 30-40 degrees. Very sim-like. After Jan. 2015 the offset angle was degraded to 10-12 degrees offset (a bit more for Inner Sphere), essentially putting missile magnets into the target mech's arms. That is why the Bushwhacker could not be killed with LRMs. It's the Zombie-mech effect of having to hit the CT through the arms.

Anyway, on purpose or not I would like this stat addressed, tracked, and made to be a bit more Sim-like. That would allow some sense of a 'Skill to be learned' to be present with LRMs and give players a reason to use Artemis, TAG, etc., like back in 2014 and before.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

I haven't kept any detailed stats but my few LRM boats don't feel changed much in last 1 year.

I think when that Clan heavy with nice amount of missile hardpoints comes Cbills I will test it out.

[Lykaon]

PurplePuke, on 06 March 2018 - 06:15 AM, said:

That's kind of silly. The counter to lasers and ballistics is that you have to expose yourself to the enemy.

LRMs also require that someone/something is exposed to the enemy.

Either a spotter has direct LOS...so shoot the spotter

There is a UAV in play...so shoot the UAV down

Someone got close enough to NARC a target...so kill the NARCer (and cover NARCed friendlies with ECM when possible.)

Or the LRM boat is it's self getting it's own locks so...shoot the LRM carrier because LRMs are so bad at damage exchange you would be hard pressed to find an unfavorable direct fire vs LRM face off scenario.

So the counters used to handle direct fire work in addition to...AMS,ECM and radar derping passively aiding as well.

If an enemy team has some serious LRM support just look up and track the trail of missiles to it's source. If it's coming from the rear lines of the enemy...use a fast skirmisher and just kill the Lurmboat or at least force it to withdraw or deal with it's own eminent threat.

If it's coming from mid formation of the enemy then you can probably see the Lurmer so make a choice primary it or the highest threat target.

The vast majority of the times when I see LRMs used successfully it is because someone let it happen. Either the bombarded team decided the best way to counter a weapon with the slowest projectiles and larges min. range in the game was to sit at range and soak hits or, Nobody in a fast attack role did anything to keep the LRM mech occupied with anything but missile spamming.

[C H E E K I E Z]

JackalBeast, on 05 March 2018 - 09:30 PM, said:

And yet this "no skill" team allowed your lrm boat to survive long enough to shoot that many missiles. lol. never change.

My team didn't allow me, I didn't hide in the back, I it from 300-500 meters away and use my backup lasers at effective range, I have 1 lrm boat, and the reason it's an Orion iic is because they can take hits so I'm on the frontline sharing armor with the crawlers. Which is also why the damage is and will be so high, I'm not sitting 900m waiting for locks.

[Brain Cancer]

And he's right- I used an Orion IIC for much the same reason (and still do with ATMs)- they're tough for a Clan machine and lob missiles like a boss with plenty of payload.

1700 is a metric ton of firing, though. How many tubes and how much ammo are you tossing with them?