17 replies to this topic

[Brain Cancer]

One thing we see regularly is that map geometry takes time and effort to get properly if you want to sculpt out a map where people don't get stuck on random invisible holes in terrain, get their shots blocked by invisible walls, and so on. And Solaris 7 got me thinking.

So I thought to myself: What if we minimize the terrain to it's absolutely lowest amount, a flat plain?
Then, use objects, destructible objects to be the "terrain" on said flat plain. Incursion gives us walls that can be blown up, both tall and small that are easily set on top of that flat terrain. This gives the map cover, but not "forever cover"- an area that's tough to get through otherwise can be blasted through, the shield blocking those incoming LRMs will shatter fairly quickly, and so on. High-walled "Tunnels" might have an enemy lurking on the other side, ready to shoot through and ambush you. And of course, you can just have indestructible walls surrounding the map edges high enough to prevent anyone from jumping out of bounds.

Call it the Maze, or the Arena.

Of course, you can expand on that with more destroyable objects- a town map with blastable buildings, and so on. But start very simple. With walls.

[Simbacca]

Brain Cancer, on 07 March 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

One thing we see regularly is that map geometry takes time and effort to get properly if you want to sculpt out a map where people don't get stuck on random invisible holes in terrain, get their shots blocked by invisible walls, and so on. And Solaris 7 got me thinking.

So I thought to myself: What if we minimize the terrain to it's absolutely lowest amount, a flat plain?
Then, use objects, destructible objects to be the "terrain" on said flat plain. Incursion gives us walls that can be blown up, both tall and small that are easily set on top of that flat terrain. This gives the map cover, but not "forever cover"- an area that's tough to get through otherwise can be blasted through, the shield blocking those incoming LRMs will shatter fairly quickly, and so on. High-walled "Tunnels" might have an enemy lurking on the other side, ready to shoot through and ambush you. And of course, you can just have indestructible walls surrounding the map edges high enough to prevent anyone from jumping out of bounds.

Call it the Maze, or the Arena.

Of course, you can expand on that with more destroyable objects- a town map with blastable buildings, and so on. But start very simple. With walls.

Instead of a "maze" arena - have it set up like a fortress. Can have mostly flat terrain and destructable objects, cover, moats, revetments.

Same effect - but sounds better.

[Variant1]

The problem with making all the cover destroyable would mean certain weapons would have an overt advantage over others. Yes i do agree with you that destructable terrain/buildings are needed, one way to implement that would make certain buildings/objects destroyable using either the mechassault aproach of being fully razed when destroyed or the mw4 aproach where buildings are destroyed but can still be used as cover. Also its about time we get some destructable bridges
edit:

Brain Cancer, on 07 March 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

you can just have indestructible walls surrounding the map edges high enough to prevent anyone from jumping out of bounds.

heck no, going out of bounds shoudl stay, to make those kill hungry enemies salty muahaahha

Edited by Variant1, 07 March 2018 - 01:02 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Variant1, on 07 March 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

The problem with making all the cover destroyable would mean certain weapons would have an overt advantage over others. Yes i do agree with you that destructable terrain/buildings are needed, one way to implement that would make certain buildings/objects destroyable using either the mechassault aproach of being fully razed when destroyed or the mw4 aproach where buildings are destroyed but can still be used as cover. Also its about time we get some destructable bridges

If there's lots of cover but it's all temporary, it means fights will tend to be more mobile, as cover is destroyed and people continue to try and move towards fresher, if temporary protections.

Quote

edit:

heck no, going out of bounds shoudl stay, to make those kill hungry enemies salty muahaahha

Nah. Two man (team) enter, one man leave! Thunderdome! Thunderdome!

[Brain Cancer]

Simbacca, on 07 March 2018 - 12:58 PM, said:

Instead of a "maze" arena - have it set up like a fortress. Can have mostly flat terrain and destructable objects, cover, moats, revetments.

Same effect - but sounds better.

The point is to make it as impossible to have things that can cause terrain issues, and that means the "base" terrain needs to be as simple and foolproof as possible.

In map terms, that's a flat surface. Given more destroyable objects, you can make more complex (and breakable) maps. But proof of concept needs to be as unscrewable uppable as possible.

Later on? Turn the trees we have now into truly destroyable terrain. You can build a forest to bulldoze. Buildings that'll actually come down when shot up. And so on. But walls are already in the game, so start with walls.

[blood4blood]

Generally good idea. (Now the salt: except since it's a good, basic idea, I have no hope PGI would implement it. It would make too much sense. Also, I no longer have the screen shot of my Atlas upside down beneath the ground/floor inside the center structure of HPG Manifold, but I still remember it well. In MWO, it is possible to have map errors on flat ground ...)

[El Bandito]

Brain Cancer, on 07 March 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

One thing we see regularly is that map geometry takes time and effort to get properly if you want to sculpt out a map where people don't get stuck on random invisible holes in terrain, get their shots blocked by invisible walls, and so on. And Solaris 7 got me thinking.

So I thought to myself: What if we minimize the terrain to it's absolutely lowest amount, a flat plain?
Then, use objects, destructible objects to be the "terrain" on said flat plain. Incursion gives us walls that can be blown up, both tall and small that are easily set on top of that flat terrain. This gives the map cover, but not "forever cover"- an area that's tough to get through otherwise can be blasted through, the shield blocking those incoming LRMs will shatter fairly quickly, and so on. High-walled "Tunnels" might have an enemy lurking on the other side, ready to shoot through and ambush you. And of course, you can just have indestructible walls surrounding the map edges high enough to prevent anyone from jumping out of bounds.

Call it the Maze, or the Arena.

Of course, you can expand on that with more destroyable objects- a town map with blastable buildings, and so on. But start very simple. With walls.

Be sure it wont **** up the framerates.

[Khobai]

Quote

The problem with making all the cover destroyable would mean certain weapons would have an overt advantage over others.

terrain/buildings should be highly resistant to ballistic and energy weapons

only missile weapons should destroy terrain/buildings easily

that would strengthen the role of underperforming missiles in the game.

Edited by Khobai, 07 March 2018 - 08:29 PM.

[Troa Barton]

I seriously doubt this is possible for MWO as much as I wish it was.
The current maps look like something from an old console game so anything would be an improvement..
It would be really cool to shoot that spire on Tourmaline out from under the lights that go up there to plink with PPCs.
+1

[Nightbird]

Breakable terrain, even just buildings, would double the work required to make a map... instead of just skinning the outside of a box, you need to do something for the interior as well.

[Dragonporn]

Idea might be interesting, but dread to imagine performance hit along with workload involved, unless actual demolitions wouldn't look like some mincraft.

[Brain Cancer]

Note, that's why I'm saying "start with walls".

We already have them made, modeled, and they don't kill people's framerates on maps. Lots of otherwise-destroyable objects (have you seen how many trees are on Forest that break/get branches shot off?) don't kill the game either.

Flat map. Incursion walls. Lots of them. Done.

Once you have that, you can start working on other stuff.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

I'd love to see a new 'Mech game with lower-res graphics but with destructible terrain, buildings, etc, instead. The gaming world has left a lot of really good stuff in the past as a sacrifice to more realistic models and textures, and that hasn't always been for the better. I seriously miss being able to make craters with my alpha strikes. Can you imagine the tactical depth that would add to gameplay? You could literally dig in for an advantage against a superior team, hobbling their push by cratering the landscape in front of them. You could block a choke point by toppling a skyscraper into it, or you could create an environmental trap by knocking out only some of the supports on a bridge so that the weight of the enemy team causes it to collapse as they cross.

Hell, gimme back late 90s graphics if I can have that kind of stuff as part of the package. It would be a price I'd happily pay.

[Vellron2005]

Brain Cancer, on 07 March 2018 - 12:54 PM, said:

One thing we see regularly is that map geometry takes time and effort to get properly if you want to sculpt out a map where people don't get stuck on random invisible holes in terrain, get their shots blocked by invisible walls, and so on. And Solaris 7 got me thinking.

So I thought to myself: What if we minimize the terrain to it's absolutely lowest amount, a flat plain?
Then, use objects, destructible objects to be the "terrain" on said flat plain. Incursion gives us walls that can be blown up, both tall and small that are easily set on top of that flat terrain. This gives the map cover, but not "forever cover"- an area that's tough to get through otherwise can be blasted through, the shield blocking those incoming LRMs will shatter fairly quickly, and so on. High-walled "Tunnels" might have an enemy lurking on the other side, ready to shoot through and ambush you. And of course, you can just have indestructible walls surrounding the map edges high enough to prevent anyone from jumping out of bounds.

Call it the Maze, or the Arena.

Of course, you can expand on that with more destroyable objects- a town map with blastable buildings, and so on. But start very simple. With walls.

The ability to level a building that's blocking my shot, or create craters from missed LRM shots would be epic, true.. but somehow, I don't think PGI will gofer it at least until they figure out how to procedurally generate maps, and switch to Unreal Engine or something better..

Would be fun though.. a truly immersive, realistic experience.. <3

[MW Waldorf Statler]

...Destructable Terrain in Multiplayer= less Performance ...

to make deformable Terrain in Cryengine 3 (newest Cry 5.1) no Problem


its give a Lot in War Thunder ..is a Other Engine (Dagor 5.0 Engine)and not server based Calculation like MWO




The UE4 ist not a Wonderengine

https://forums.unrea...-is-it-possible

https://www.reddit.c...terrain_in_ue4/

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 08 March 2018 - 03:35 AM.

[Khobai]

we dont need every bit of terrain to be destructible though. that would be way too much work.

just the obvious things should be destructible... like buildings. trees. small rocks. etc...

[Simbacca]

Or the devs can go the route of what was done in Battlefield Bad Company 2 - only certain structures can be destroyed - of which there would be only 2 or 3 on the map. This can keep the workload down, performance acceptable, and at least give some satisfaction to players.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Simbacca, on 08 March 2018 - 05:50 AM, said:

Or the devs can go the route of what was done in Battlefield Bad Company 2 - only certain structures can be destroyed - of which there would be only 2 or 3 on the map. This can keep the workload down, performance acceptable, and at least give some satisfaction to players.

thats a good idea and by this please take the Design of the Missions and the Mapdesigns from Battlefield for MWO ..the own Gamemode designs most Crap.

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 08 March 2018 - 09:05 AM.