86 replies to this topic

[Lykaon]

Snowbluff, on 22 March 2018 - 07:29 AM, said:

Nope, it's simply the case. LRMers WILL vote for Polar because it's the best map for them. There are other people who vote for it, but they should probably be doing the same thing. As pointed out, if you've been NARCed, there really isn't anything you can do if you have no ECM. And I'm not just saying help me, I'm saying help themselves.

I have been bringing a NARC for the last 20 matches to test it out. I do carry UAVs. I do spot for missiles. When I'm not doing these things, I'm bringing a power, direct fire focused build that simply has to carry the LRMers. Having done the NARC role, I can say HPG is actually really good for LRMs if you can keep your enemies out of the basement or off the top, as the lines of the ramps don't make for good cover.

In short, you're full of it, almost as much as blood4blood. He may have a personal preference for the map, but that's the real anecdotal evidence.

"Simply the case" is a statement of absolute fact without supporting data. I do agree it's a smart move to vote for Polar Highlands if you are using an LRM boat however, it is easily observable and recordable to see that maps like HPG are selected with a significantly higher frequency than Polar for the same reasons by players using non LRM centric builds (brawlers want small cover choked maps) .

Yet the opposite point of view would be shot down with exstensive levels of salt and vitriol.

If I dropped a post on the forum that stated that I play an LRM boat and feel it's neccissary for brawlers to hold locks for me and deploy UAVs and NARCs on densely covered maps because brawlers purposely select dense covered maps to support their play styles to the detriment of LRM use I would be flamed into the ground for it.

And oddly enough,this scenario is far more common than landing on polar highlands with an opfor that includes a dedicated NARCer and heavy LRM use that isn't also not Incursion (global ECM available) or Escort (uncounterable ECM towers available).

As I see it I already have it pretty easy as a brawler centric play style pilot. Map selection is more frequently in my favor I don't have to jump through hoops to squeeze basic functionality out of my weapons like LRMs need and there is no passive hard counter to a bullet in face like there are for LRMs.

If one in ten matches I need to maybe think about LRMs actually being a potential threat rather than a free kill for me I'm fine with it. I just know that when the map is favorable to LRMs I can no longer just passively go about my business dispite LRM pressence (like I can on most maps with ample cover) I need to pay attention to LRMs as an actual threat and take action to minimize that threat.

Asking a pilot of an LRM boat to strap on an AMS in addition to BAPs and Artemis and TAGs and bucket loads of ammo is further burdening an already taxed specialist build that most of the time ends up playing on maps selected for how they favor other play styles over LRM use.


And as for being NARCed on Polar. You can do quite a bit yourself.

Have your own AMS since NARC is a slow moving missile and is effected by AMS. It will do you no good at all if that LRM boat teammate is 300m behind you has AMS if a NARC is fired at you. And It will do you no good at all if that LRM boat teammate isn't within AMS range of you (and they won't be most of the time) when the missiles target you because you are NARCed.

The players you need to be asking to help out when the match is Polar and the opfor has NARC and LRMs are your team's fast attack mechs. It's not a Lurmboat's job to chase down fast skirmishers shooting NARCs it's your team's fast attack mechs that should be doing that.

You have mentioned you are using an Arcticwolf with a NARC on it. Well guess what? If the bad guys have a dedicated NARCer your Arctic Wolf may want to stick a NARC on the enemy NARCer, When that happens THEN it becomes the LRM boat's job to take out the enemy NARCs.

Until that happens you are asking a player with the least effective means of attacking a fast moving target to deploy defense/offense against those types of targets.

[Snowbluff]

The AMS won't shoot down my narc. It's slightly behind two dozen missiles.

[illudium Q 36]

I like running Dual AMS whenever I can. I generally take two to three tons of Ammo for them. On some of the smaller Mechs this can compromise my DPS a lot. But I don't mind. Many a game has gone by with little or no LRM action from the opponents. Sometimes; however, I'll burn through three tons of ammo in as many minutes.

If I end up in a game on Polar in a Dual (or triple) AMS Mech, I'll run towards the LRM fire to shield whomever I can on our team.

Don't like Polar .... don't like LRMs ..... just my small contribution to even things out .......

[mogs01gt]

Snowbluff, on 20 March 2018 - 12:27 PM, said:

Listen, if we're going to be a on Polar to support your playstyle, and we have no hard cover and are assailed by NARCs and UAVs, at least make up for it by being a personal Iron Dome and helping your team with the match up you are built for and are forcing your team into.

AMS goes on LRM boat.

so you want to make them less functional due to poor map design? Why not just ask PGI for maps designed around PP damage, ohh wait...

Edited by mogs01gt, 22 March 2018 - 11:18 AM.

[Lykaon]

roekenny, on 22 March 2018 - 09:06 AM, said:

No secret that potatos love that map reason called LRM lands and you know no one can get evidence as PGI has all the raw data and not keen to share as would fuel way too many fires.



On how many maps how about every single one other that Highlands they all have a nice wall somewhere you can hide. This is the sticking point people have for that map there is no wall just shallow hills so if you do get the perfect storm you can't do anything and no one likes it when they are literally ****ed and can do nothing about it. As for using maps what don't let LRMs use them effectively I can count one if fight happens on lower level on crimson straight the rest you have to be close range fire support and flank a bit but are able to use them pretty much anywhere. However you have to do a bit of grunt work to get them to work or just going to hit walls.



Agree you should look after yourself as LRM mechs in rear so will kill 2 missiles at best so next to pointless. However HMG manifold in not difficult for lrms you just have to flank wide and expose yourself a bit more. People hold locks and pop uav's a dam sight more than LRM's "help" the rest of the team so before bringing the argument we should help the LRM's maybe if they met team half way people would be more receptive to doing more for them.


Again yes that's the perfect storm but it's the one storm what on any other map cannot just kill you outright with no retaliation and people do not like been helpless. High aplhas you dodge twist and keep moving, annoying PIR-s in the back you spot them first and pump lead into their legs, Narced you hide, everything bar that one map weapon combo you could do something about in any mech configuration and this is why it keep popping up.

OK I will now write a disertation on how to survive Polar Highlands if that perfect storm occurs.

It is very important to realize that LRMs have some very exploitable weaknesses even when LRM locks are easily attained.

First and formost is dispersed damage. LRMs literally fall from the sky in clumps at the slowest speed of any projectile in the entire game. So, If you can not evade a volley of LRMs you DO get to choose where to take the hit more or less.

SO TWIST! Soak the hits across your mech's entire upper body, If you have Jets jump as the missiles come down and take some leg armor hits. The missiles are so slow and you do know it's coming because "betty says so" .

Second...LRMs are super slow and require locks this means the time it takes to recieve repeat hits from an LRM boat is significantly longer than pretty much everything else, actually it is longer than everything else.You will have plenty of time between recieving significant hits to perform attacks or manuver.

Third LRMs have the largest minimum range of any weapon in the entire game. This is another easily exploited weakness. Along with the actual hard mechanics of the min. range there is the psycological effects on LURMers. Most LURMers are very uncomfortable when they get charged and will likely try to displace to safer distances. Displacing Lurmboatsare not launching Lurmboats.

So let's put all this together.

Your team is on Polar and the metal rain is coming down hard. Your options are sit at a perfect distance to get drilled to death by the worst weapon system in regular use in MWo or use the above listed exploitable weaknesses to do something that may just win a match for you.

Step one: form up your team to push into the enemy along the closest decernable path to the heaviest concentration of enemy LRM fire. (unless the LRM boat(s) are isolated from the main bulk of the opfor team, if this is the case then why havn't your fast attack mechs already ended them?)

Step two: someone gets the unenviable task of being "priority LRM target" this is the poor sucker who is narced or the current LRM target. This guy needs to make their mech last as long as possible as the team pushes in. Twisting to disperse damage while advancing and putting pressure on the LRM boats by advancing.

Ideally step two is once your team is formed up the concentration of ECM and AMS will greatly reduce the LRM threat as your team closes.

Step three: Intelligent target selection... Or killing what you're good at killing. Assaults and heavies focus enemy heavies and assaults. Call focus targets to kill quickly. Mediums and lights blitz for the LRM boats. Ignore the enemy lights and mediums until the initial blitz is completed (some mediums should be classified as priority due to potential firepower mainly clan mechs like Hunch IIcs and Huntsman the I.S. bushwacker etc) But essentially ...

PUSH together
Target larger mechs first
Focus fire
Fast mechs rush the LRMs

Snowbluff, on 22 March 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

The AMS won't shoot down my narc. It's slightly behind two dozen missiles.

Because you're doing it right...But Ravens don't have the luxary of bucket loads of missile hardpoints and half tonnage clan launchers.

[IllCaesar]

FupDup, on 20 March 2018 - 01:46 PM, said:

Just to clarify, not all people who vote for Polar are Lurmers. Some of us are ERLL and ERPPC pokers.

I have a few LRMboating mechs and I generally dislike using them on Polar Highlands. Its not exactly fun and everybody is expecting LRMs on those maps. When you LRM everybody knows where you are without even seeing any sort of visual confirmation. Everbody knows the spots that they can use to shoot at your sides and everybody knows to bunch together for an AMS or ECM umbrella. Its a boring match and its hard to have a breakout match there.

A much bigger surprise for the enemy team is using them effectively on Forest Colony or River City. Surprise is a big factor into using LRMs well beyond getting 300~ damage in a match.

[Brain Cancer]

Just for laughs, I was saving my multiplier and voting Polar every time it came up.

I got to x8 once and x9 once, and both times I only lost multiplier because Alpine came up instead. I like Alpine. It's silly.

Most games on Polar were...NASCAR around a hill, Whoever kills the enemy LRM boats first, won.

[Stridercal]

Mechwarrior1441491, on 22 March 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

Block people for using a weapon system? Please leave the game.

Nooooo... block people for NOT using a weapon system. It doesn't hurt the overall game to avoid certain players personally.

Edited by Stridercal, 22 March 2018 - 12:11 PM.

[roekenny]

Lykaon, on 22 March 2018 - 11:27 AM, said:

OK I will now write a disertation on how to survive Polar Highlands if that perfect storm occurs.

It is very important to realize that LRMs have some very exploitable weaknesses even when LRM locks are easily attained.

First and formost is dispersed damage. LRMs literally fall from the sky in clumps at the slowest speed of any projectile in the entire game. So, If you can not evade a volley of LRMs you DO get to choose where to take the hit more or less.

SO TWIST! Soak the hits across your mech's entire upper body, If you have Jets jump as the missiles come down and take some leg armor hits. The missiles are so slow and you do know it's coming because "betty says so" .

Second...LRMs are super slow and require locks this means the time it takes to recieve repeat hits from an LRM boat is significantly longer than pretty much everything else, actually it is longer than everything else.You will have plenty of time between recieving significant hits to perform attacks or manuver.

Were talking perfect storm here so you are narced, twisting helps but don't stop fact they won't stop the rain until you are dead, otherwise thats sound advice if taking any fire.

Lykaon, on 22 March 2018 - 11:27 AM, said:

PUSH together
Target larger mechs first
Focus fire
Fast mechs rush the LRMs

This is a no brainer however you are dealing with PUBS and they are not the most eager to push no matter how logical the argument is believe me I try every time see this happen (forgetting the fact if a team pushes they are usually the most coordinated and will win anyway.) Also if reds have potatoes you do too and again they are even less inclined to push. So while can theory craft how to avoid such situations you cannot rely on having such options available to you. Trust me if I saw a red team full of LRMS if I knew my team could be relied on I would love that map vs LRM's due to the shear pain you can have walk over a hill but sadly best you can hope for is AMS as it will not let you down.

[Thander Gil]

First, i admit that i run support mechs. and ,yes that means LRM's. I NEVER "boat" them. Support mechs are just that,support. I try to bring weapons for all ranges. I suck a brawling,so i try to protect them. (keeps me alive longer ;D). Second, if my mech has an AMS slot i always use it. I don't care what weapons i bring, i always try to bring an umbrella. Just my two cents. Take it for what you will. Good hunting and have fun. FLAME ON!!!!!!!!

[Brain Cancer]

I won't flame. Just going to point out that when you have weapons for all ranges, you're not doing 100% of what someone else could in any of them. LRM boats (and ATM) generally have secondaries because it's binary- you can be hugged to zero damage from your missiles.

[Kroete]

Snowbluff, on 22 March 2018 - 09:02 AM, said:

You know, I bet most people don't go on the forum to learn how to take cover and stuff like that. *shrug*

Wow, someone did the math. I guess it is easily worth it's tonnage in ammo. Of course, if you dodge the missile anyway I guess the ammo goes to waste.

Lets waste some ammo for the ability to protected you allys.
One ams is a little help, two are better, with three, ams becomes a force and at 4 or more it will be the umbrella.

Not only reducing the damage, but making the boats fire all tubes to overcome the mass ams at least a little,
giving them much more (ghost)heat then ripple fire and let them fire less often.

Edited by Kroete, 22 March 2018 - 01:27 PM.

[Kalimaster]

I use LRM Mechs, and some of them do have AMS. Not hard to do either. LRM's would not be much of a hassel if the other weapons had not been Nerfed to near kingdom come. My Super Nova with 18 Double Heat Sinks and as much heat as I could reduce still has a heat rating of 1.14 and it overheats like crazy.

[Lykaon]

roekenny, on 22 March 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

however you are dealing with PUBS and they are not the most eager to push no matter how logical the argument is believe me I try every time see this happen (forgetting the fact if a team pushes they are usually the most coordinated and will win anyway.)

I have had an above "average" amount of success in coordinating Puggies because I do a few things first.

I explain why in plain and simple language.

I explain how in plain and simple language

I go first. I don't request from others what I will not do first.


And when this doesn't work remember your next match is more than likely not LRM hell on Polar but another round of skirmish on HPG

Edited by Lykaon, 22 March 2018 - 02:04 PM.

[Snowbluff]

Kroete, on 22 March 2018 - 01:25 PM, said:

Lets waste some ammo for the ability to protected you allys.
One ams is a little help, two are better, with three, ams becomes a force and at 4 or more it will be the umbrella.

Not only reducing the damage, but making the boats fire all tubes to overcome the mass ams at least a little,
giving them much more (ghost)heat then ripple fire and let them fire less often.

Yeah, it can be pretty handy in that regard.

Also I just played a match where a Cicada and I 2v3ed a bunch of guys. The AMS took out a lot of ATMs, which used to wreck me before I put it on.

[roekenny]

Lykaon, on 22 March 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

I have had an above "average" amount of success in coordinating Puggies because I do a few things first.

I explain why in plain and simple language.

I explain how in plain and simple language

I go first. I don't request from others what I will not do first.


And when this doesn't work remember your next match is more than likely not LRM hell on Polar but another round of skirmish on HPG

It's never hell as always in my kitfox at the moment as having 5 tons of ammo drained most matches is oddly satisfying knowing just nerfed the bulk of more than 1 mechs dps. Also mechs tend to gravitate to you for some reason and act as meat shields can't think why however heh.

[Gen Lee]

Thank you, to all who revealed at least some info on the loadouts you prefer to bring to some, if not most, matches. I'll be filing that away for future reference and exploiting it to maximize my combat prowess.

As for LRMs, they don't worry me unless there's several LRM boats focusing on me, and even then, I know that if I die, there's also a good chance the enemy team will lose the round due to too many people doing too little damage. If my team is combat effective in the least, they'll be able to take out the LRM boats a lot easier than if the team had brought better mechs or better weaponry.

As for Polar Highlands and LRMs...please, please, PLEASE bring your LRM boats. I don't even need to run AMS (not saying I don't, I'm not revealing anything that can be used against me, lol) to deal with those guys. I'm more worried about ballistics and especially lasers (due to their superior hit-reg). I'll either kill the LRM boats with laser vomit or "death-and-dispair, dispatch-and-dispose" dakka. Either of those are superior to LRM spam. ATMs worry me more than LRMs, but as long as you can take cover or keep them at range, they aren't much of a threat at all.

I'll bet Moonshiner Josh's missing finger that there's a lot of folks that feel the same way as me. BTW, Josh almost lost another finger in a motorcycle wreck the other day...so I'll bet what's left of his other one as well, lol.

Edited by Gen Lee, 22 March 2018 - 04:29 PM.

[Snowbluff]

Gen Lee, on 22 March 2018 - 04:27 PM, said:

Thank you, to all who revealed at least some info on the loadouts you prefer to bring to some, if not most, matches. I'll be filing that away for future reference and exploiting it to maximize my combat prowess.

Get out of here with that ****, it discourages discussion.

Quote

I'll bet Moonshiner Josh's missing finger that there's a lot of folks that feel the same way as me. BTW, Josh almost lost another finger in a motorcycle wreck the other day...so I'll bet what's left of his other one as well, lol.

Woah WTF. I don't know who you mean but is he ok? o.0

[InspectorG]

Obligatory PSA:


Know what works well against Lurmers that costs no Tonnage?

Press W.

Shoot Reds till they press S and break locks.

Red Team Lurmer will sit in back(too dumb to bring a TAG) crying about locks...

Problem solved, tonnage saved.

[Gen Lee]

Snowbluff, on 22 March 2018 - 06:58 PM, said:

Get out of here with that ****, it discourages discussion.

Woah WTF. I don't know who you mean but is he ok? o.0

First, the likeliness of me remember who said what on the forums while in-game is pretty low. I was joking, but that DOES give me another idea regarding challenges between players. Now I don't know a whole lot about Battletech lore, but I remember Clanners being real big on honor and challenging others to Trials for various reasons. PGI should do something like that, where players can challenge each other to duels or group duels, with various options for how it goes down (agreeing on number of combatants, weapons used, etc.). THAT would be quite interesting.

Second, Josh Owens is one of the guys Discovery Channel has on their show, Moonshiners. He'll be fine, even if he loses the finger. I'm more worried about all the ribs and other bones he broke. He won't even let them give him morphine or even Tylenol for pain. That boy is tough, I tell ya what, lol.