179 replies to this topic

[Curccu]

Samial, on 23 March 2018 - 12:23 AM, said:

I don't think i've ever seen a piranhas back, honestly if a dire wolf back kills a piranha, thats some serious freakin skill man, hitting it at those speeds he must have superman vision..

They don't move that fast when they are humping someone elses butt. or do 360 run around maneuver. Not that hard to hit with gauss really and every single hit hurts badly.
Like in OPs video https://youtu.be/8QuU-rjClys?t=4m32s not a dire but deathstrike, he just wasn't good enough shot.

[PocketYoda]

GabrielSun, on 22 March 2018 - 09:24 AM, said:

I watched Proton snapshot a Piranha yesterday with a single heavy gauss and it folded faster than superman on laundry day. The only reason people think they're OP is because they're ignoring them until it's too late. Potato factor should be applied to any calculations. Really the only problem is hit reg. Shooting at the cherry red back of a light with an AC20 and watching the graphics show a hit, then seeing no response from the paper doll is extremely frustrating.

Other than Gauss not much in game kills them fast, LBX and missiles do an average job but slow everything else is luck or attrition to kill a light.

Nightbird, on 22 March 2018 - 08:00 PM, said:

No its not, MWO machine guns are far inferior to a A10

Edited by Samial, 23 March 2018 - 02:08 AM.

[Guffrus]

@Roekenny

The only thing that you read in my entire post was 'high dps vs back armour' and then assumed that i have an issue with lights flanking and killing me.

I dont, at all.

Actually i like it, its one of my favourite aspects of the game.

So i would appreciate it in future, if you are going to quote me, then argue what i have actually said, dont assign to me complaints that you have heard others make and then think you are making a counterpoint to my comments or arguements.

Guffrus

[Darian DelFord]

LT. HARDCASE, on 22 March 2018 - 09:12 PM, said:

Tbh I doubt most people watched the entire match in detail. I really wanted to see what was going on, and as a strike connoisseur, I couldn't help but to notice that beautifully placed artillery. Bravo for that.

dario03, on 22 March 2018 - 09:34 PM, said:

Probably. Don't think many read the comments either since a couple of early posts explained how it wasn't OP and one on the first page did call out the strike, plus again on later pages.

And thats the reason I posted it. I did not set out to record something like this. As you can tell by my reaction at the end of the vid I was surprised as hell and thought.... How the heck did I do that. The only conclusion I came to was ammo explosions. Did not think about the Arty though. But all people see at the end of the match is a light mech with 1k damage 6 kills and think OP without actually looking at HOW that happened. Such as with the other thread... all these vids kept popping up showing OMG OP OP OP but when you actually look and analyze the vids the majority of the time the light is merely capitalizing on the enemies mistakes. Much the same way a light can be one shot at 500+ meters.... they made a mistake and got in open field.

This is the whole point of this thread.

Is the Piranha powerful in the right hands.... absolutely. Is it useless when faced against pilots that know situational awareness absolutely.

I am a jenner pilot yet for the last two weeks I have been back I have not seen a single jenner on the field. For that matter the only lights I see are the Hound.... Locusts and from time to time another piranha... the question has to be asked why? The answer is simple, since the rescale most of the light mechs were made much easier to hit. With little armor this made playing them futile.

IMHO the piranha needs to stay where its at and the lagging lights need to be buffed up to at least near its competitive level. The piranha's biggest weakness is that of an enemy teammate.


This has actually been a more civil discussion than other threads on both sides of the fence and I am thankful for that.. I will chalk it up to, it started with a video that proves part of the point.

I do wish PGI would put in where the damage comes from... ie... X from Arties... X from Ammo explosions.. X from mech weapons and so forth.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 23 March 2018 - 05:22 AM.

[Krivvan]

Samial, on 23 March 2018 - 12:23 AM, said:

I don't think i've ever seen a piranhas back, honestly if a dire wolf back kills a piranha, thats some serious freakin skill man, hitting it at those speeds he must have superman vision..

You don't need to hit a Piranha's back to insta-kill it. Nor is it a superhuman feat to one-shot a Piranha. It's a regular occurrence. You tend to not notice the Piranhas that get one-shot since they're the ones that are out of the match early with double digit damage.

Samial, on 23 March 2018 - 01:56 AM, said:

Other than Gauss not much in game kills them fast, LBX and missiles do an average job but slow everything else is luck or attrition to kill a light.

Even a simple 6xML from a Jenner applied well one and a half times will leg a Piranha. And I've done exactly that over and over again in pub queue. A single streak boat alpha will cripple a Piranha, or kill if RNG is on your side. A single 3xATM9 volley in its sweet spot range will do the same thing.

Edited by Krivvan, 23 March 2018 - 06:20 AM.

[MisterPlanetarian]

Picking inattentive heavies/assaults apart is not hard at all, thats not whats called into question here.

The problem is the ability to sustain that kind of damage, even expertly piloted laserboats need to cool down between kills in a way that the Pirana doesn't. The only limiter to his dps is ammo(which is in abundance) and attention from enemy mechs (which forces him to disengage). That well placed Arty also helped bring up the damage no doubt.

I have a hard time seeing 4:25 to about 5:15 being possible in a laserboat light, theres only one single "cooldown" break when the MKII starts chasing him. The rest is basically 100% dps uptime with all weapons firing.

Edited by MisterPlanetarian, 23 March 2018 - 06:42 AM.

[Krivvan]

MisterPlanetarian, on 23 March 2018 - 06:38 AM, said:

The problem is the ability to sustain that kind of damage, even expertly piloted laserboats need to cool down between kills in a way that the Pirana doesn't. The only limiter to his dps is ammo(which is in abundance) and attention from enemy mechs (which forces him to disengage). That well placed Arty also helped bring up the damage no doubt.

You're forgetting about SRM Lights as well.

https://www.twitch.t...927084?t=03m16s

Those laserboat lights have a higher burst damage than the Piranha. One of the Piranha's weaknesses is the fact that it needs prolonged facetime to do its huge DPS. Those expertly piloted laserboat Lights only need to expose for a half second before being perfectly safe again.

Edited by Krivvan, 23 March 2018 - 06:48 AM.

[mogs01gt]

TWIAFU, on 22 March 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

Sure, under the premise, Lighter mechs should not be effective in combat when heavier mechs are around.

So, with that nugget, only the same weight class can be effective. Medium cannot be effective when an Assault/Heavy are around, same with Heavy. it cannot be effective with an Assault around. Wouldn't that mean that only Heavier mechs can only be effective with a lighter mech around? But the Lighter cannot be effective with the Heavier around?! So, mechs can only be effective against the same weight class or lower, not higher.

By chance, did you think this though?

Technically in lore, lights and mediums were the most abundant so they would never be the minority weight class on the battlefield. This is why MWO hasnt translated into a well balanced game since its lacking core fundamentals. The issues start wheh Assaults are present on the battlefield. It was said in lore that medium lasers wouldnt penetrate the armor on assaults. So right off the bad, mediums and lights are vastly under-gunned.

Also, lore showed that the projectiles leaving machine guns would bounce off the armor of most mechs. Machine guns were for infantry control, ML and small lasers were for lighter mechs.

Edited by mogs01gt, 23 March 2018 - 07:30 AM.

[MisterPlanetarian]

Krivvan, on 23 March 2018 - 06:47 AM, said:

You're forgetting about SRM Lights as well.

https://www.twitch.t...927084?t=03m16s

Those laserboat lights have a higher burst damage than the Piranha. One of the Piranha's weaknesses is the fact that it needs prolonged facetime to do its huge DPS. Those expertly piloted laserboat Lights only need to expose for a half second before being perfectly safe again.

Oh yeah, theres that. Basically all of the Piranhas strengths benefits from typical solo queue behavior and piloting styles. It's one of those mechs that a half decent light pilot can absolutely wreck stuff with in the solo queue, but a well coordinated team could marginalize quite effectively.

[Violator]

Tomato+potato salad is very easy to eat.

[Iron Heel]

mogs01gt, on 23 March 2018 - 07:20 AM, said:

Also, lore showed that the projectiles leaving machine guns would bounce off the armor of most mechs. Machine guns were for infantry control,

Debunked in post #49.

Stop with the fake facts!!

Curccu, on 22 March 2018 - 07:55 AM, said:

NNGGGGGGGGGH Member since 2013 and this topic has been done in 20 different threads along the years... have you seriously not seen/read any of those?

Go get that BT manual and you will very much see that they do 2 damage to battlemechs same damage as AC2.
MGs have damage multiplier against infantry (if I remember correctly)

look sarna quote "The Machine Gun is the quintessential anti-infantry weapon, issuing a stream of bullets at a high rate of fire to cut down opposing soldiers, while still being effective at damaging BattleMechs."

so chill with your alternate facts about lore.

Edited by Iron Heel, 23 March 2018 - 12:56 PM.

[Vonbach]

What an OP clan mech? Where have we seen this before?

[Devilsfury]

You would have to be blind, stupid or a liar to not admit that the Piranha is crazy op broken. My bud and I recently came back after a 9 month break. He bought the piranha and said that it was pure garbage. About a week later he spent his GXP and and skilled out that mech. You should have heard the laughter. He is now putting up 550+ every match and several kills. Ive seen him do over 1200 with 7 kills in a match. Why should a light be able to put these numbers out? Hell, how can that light carry more firepower than most medium and heavy mechs? Its broken and most people know it. Its just that people paid real life money for it and want to keep their op mech. /case closed

[Duncan Aravain]

One last call for sanity; the mgs of BT are NOT like the GAU-8. They are not even equivalent to the M61 Vulcan ( a 20mm multi barrel). As per the MWO illustration for the module stats, it is a single barrel weapon. The heavy machine gun in MWO was based on the M2 (.50 caliber) or the Soviet 12.7mm, the LMG based on the M60 (.30 caliber). Yes they effect Mechs.No, they weren't designed in the BT game to be used at over 270 meters or having a reasonable chance to hit any mech if the attacker had used full movement to get behind a moving mech and was over 90 meters away from the target.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion; you are not entitled to your own "facts". Except, it appears, in the MWO forums.

Edited by Duncan Aravain, 23 March 2018 - 03:08 PM.

[kuma8877]

Duncan Aravain, on 23 March 2018 - 03:05 PM, said:

One last call for sanity; the mgs of BT are NOT like the GAU-8. They are not even equivalent to the M61 Vulcan ( a 20mm multi barrel). As per the MWO illustration for the module stats, it is a single barrel weapon. The heavy machine gun in MWO was based on the M2 (.50 caliber) or the Soviet 12.7mm, the LMG based on the M60 (.30 caliber). Yes they effect Mechs.No, they weren't designed in the BT game to be used at over 270 meters or having a reasonable chance to hit any mech if the attacker had used full movement to get behind a moving mech and was over 90 meters away from the target.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion; you are not entitled to your own "facts". Except, it appears, in the MWO forums.

Just FYI, the M230 is a 30mm single barrel weapon system, that unlike the Gau, the Phalanx or Vulcan, would look an awful lot like an MWO MG if wrapped in a cooling jacket (and would be plenty small enough to mount on anything you wanted to). Where are your caliber comparisons coming from? Book or chart?

Edited by kuma8877, 23 March 2018 - 03:33 PM.

[Nightbird]

Duncan Aravain, on 23 March 2018 - 03:05 PM, said:

One last call for sanity; the mgs of BT are NOT like the GAU-8. They are not even equivalent to the M61 Vulcan ( a 20mm multi barrel). As per the MWO illustration for the module stats, it is a single barrel weapon. The heavy machine gun in MWO was based on the M2 (.50 caliber) or the Soviet 12.7mm, the LMG based on the M60 (.30 caliber). Yes they effect Mechs.No, they weren't designed in the BT game to be used at over 270 meters or having a reasonable chance to hit any mech if the attacker had used full movement to get behind a moving mech and was over 90 meters away from the target.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion; you are not entitled to your own "facts". Except, it appears, in the MWO forums.

https://en.wikipedia...iki/M2_Browning

The opinion that 1000 years in the future a 1,000 pound weapon system performs the same as a 1900s weapon that weighs 127pounds is certainly an interesting 'fact'.

[naterist]

Nightbird, on 23 March 2018 - 03:34 PM, said:

https://en.wikipedia...iki/M2_Browning

The opinion that 1000 years in the future a 1,000 pound weapon system performs the same as a 1900s weapon that weighs 127pounds is certainly an interesting 'fact'.

you DO realize that the battletech universe has seen a technological decline that left some (some, clearly not ALL) planets almost back in the stone age, correct?

[Nightbird]

naterist, on 23 March 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

you DO realize that the battletech universe has seen a technological decline that left some (some, clearly not ALL) planets almost back in the stone age, correct?

A stone age that still has fusion reactors, yes?

[kuma8877]

naterist, on 23 March 2018 - 03:37 PM, said:

you DO realize that the battletech universe has seen a technological decline that left some (some, clearly not ALL) planets almost back in the stone age, correct?

But I don't think even at the worst, people were putting mechs together with sticks and stones were they? Whatever tech they cobbled together would've been from the current era rather than a bygone one. Probably not gonna run into to many well preserved WW2 MG's out in the Periphery.

[naterist]

Nightbird, on 23 March 2018 - 03:39 PM, said:

A stone age that still has fusion reactors, yes?

not really. they import a fusion reactor like, once evry 20 or so years, if their luckey, with the mechs they have running engines from 100s of years ago. machine guns are about what they can make, which is why in dark ages and jihad they had all these mechs running on gasoline and primitive armour, armed with machine guns and rocket launchers. because thats what they had the tech to make in most of the innersphere.