53 replies to this topic

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Nema Nabojiv, on 23 March 2018 - 05:04 AM, said:

I doubt the game would even be alive at this point with any kind of important stuff being client-side. That or we'd all have to use cheats to compete.

102/5000
the game is not alive .. it just survives somehow ... but well, no one steals a broken car

all Other Games (and thats 90% from all MMOGS /FPS) with Clientbased Calculations have no Problems ...from War Thunder to Battlefield 1...

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 23 March 2018 - 06:53 AM.

[Krivvan]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 23 March 2018 - 06:52 AM, said:

all Other Games (and thats 90% from all MMOGS /FPS) with Clientbased Calculations have no Problems ...from War Thunder to Battlefield 1...

Battlefield 1 uses hybrid client and server side hit detection to my knowledge.

Also most pvp shooters still tend to be server-side. It's only more recently that a couple franchises flipped to client side. Overwatch is a client-side example. But the current most popular game on Twitch is server side (Fortnite). Counter Strike GO is also server-side. Planetside 2 is client-side. Unreal Tournament is server-side. World of Tanks is server-side. If I'm not mistaken, War Thunder is actually server-side as well.

But there's really no correct answer regarding which is better.

Edited by Krivvan, 23 March 2018 - 07:04 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

I wonder if they could have made IK a visual-only thing that doesn't follow the actual bones of the vehicle (which are registered server side) with a toggle switch to turn it off. It would be fundamentally similar to what "network smoothing" does in a game like Battlefield 3, where the game guesses where the object is supposed to be so it can fill in the network stutters for smoothness at the expense of accuracy (and most of us turned it off because BF is too fast for that to be desirable...MWO is not).

[Adridos]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 March 2018 - 07:41 AM, said:

I wonder if they could have made IK a visual-only thing that doesn't follow the actual bones of the vehicle (which are registered server side) with a toggle switch to turn it off. It would be fundamentally similar to what "network smoothing" does in a game like Battlefield 3, where the game guesses where the object is supposed to be so it can fill in the network stutters for smoothness at the expense of accuracy (and most of us turned it off because BF is too fast for that to be desirable...MWO is not).

That very system is why they decided to not pursue the re-inclusion of IK into the game.
It worked perfectly, but the issue was there was no prediction of objects in the game (network smoothing, as you/BF3 calls it) so no one could ever register any hits whatsoever. After years of lights being the strongest mechs in the game on account of being nigh-invincible, PGI set off to create network smoothing of their own. It took a while, but they finally made it.
Except then the higher ups asked the poor guy "Fine, now add IK into this", which is the opposite of what should have been. They should have known they would promise the re-inclusion of IK and collisions, instead of deciding it on a whim, and made it a part of the network smoothing's specification.
The whole thing implemented and running, adding in IK would require a complete rework and another year and a half or so of development time down the drain to get it running up to par again. Hence the decision to fall back on the newly promised re-inclusion.

[Curccu]

MoonUnitBeta, on 22 March 2018 - 07:09 PM, said:

Quit long time ago, I heard about IK getting put into the game, but I don't want to download the game to find out.

We have it yet?

I find it extremely weird that IK could be the reason someone quits the game and comes back only if its back...

[Krivvan]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 March 2018 - 07:41 AM, said:

I wonder if they could have made IK a visual-only thing that doesn't follow the actual bones of the vehicle (which are registered server side) with a toggle switch to turn it off.

But then you'd have to shoot at air to hit the leg of a mech for example rather than where you actually see a leg.

Imagine shooting the legs of a thin Light but now having to predict where their leg would be if it didn't have IK. Even with full IK hit reg, it'd be harder to hit small and fast components like quickly moving legs.

Edited by Krivvan, 23 March 2018 - 08:03 AM.

[Koniving]

MoonUnitBeta, on 22 March 2018 - 07:09 PM, said:

Quit long time ago, I heard about IK getting put into the game, but I don't want to download the game to find out.

We have it yet?

they "gave up"
The excuse is the impact of the risk of your legs not being where they appear to be in competitions.

Because the less than 30% of players that are competitive (and I'm using that percentage very generously, I seriously doubt it is anywhere above 15%) is PGI's target audience... Most of which tend to leave after seeing how fundamentally flawed the balancing is...

[Krivvan]

Koniving, on 23 March 2018 - 08:03 AM, said:

they "gave up"
The excuse is the impact of the risk of your legs not being where they appear to be in competitions.

Are you implying it's not an issue outside of competitions? You have people already complaining that Lights are hard to shoot and leg. Imagine if you had to hit their components in the thin air where they don't actually appear to be?

How is "it's a problem if you shoot something and it isn't actually there" a problem that only affects competitions?

Edited by Krivvan, 23 March 2018 - 08:05 AM.

[Koniving]

The irony is there'd be less complaints of leggings with that minor fluke, and we could consistently hit legs by aiming for where the leg hooks up to the pelvis.. But hey, PGI doesn't trust us to have brains.

[Y E O N N E]

Krivvan, on 23 March 2018 - 08:03 AM, said:

But then you'd have to shoot at air to hit the leg of a mech for example rather than where you actually see a leg.

Imagine shooting the legs of a thin Light but now having to predict where their leg would be if it didn't have IK. Even with full IK hit reg, it'd be harder to hit small and fast components like quickly moving legs.

I mean, Battlefield 3 had the same problem with the network smoothing and that's why it was user-adjustable. Turn it on when you want visual candy, turn it off when you are playing for serious.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 23 March 2018 - 08:09 AM.

[Koniving]

Krivvan, on 23 March 2018 - 08:04 AM, said:

Are you implying it's not an issue outside of competitions? You have people already complaining that Lights are hard to shoot and leg. Imagine if you had to hit their components in the thin air where they don't actually appear to be?

How hard is it to shoot a leg?
Most of the legs of lights (except the Jenners) are actually larger in hitbox than they physically are in size. You can step on their legs.


That's how big their leg hitboxes can be.
Note I get credit for COMPONENT DESTRUCTION without firing a shot, after the limb break sound plays when I "step" on him (collide with him).
On a side note, comparing the date with the perfect screenshot thread where I am the model of numerous screenshots that had IK in them..... IK was STILL in the game at the time. So that's kinda fun.

(To test how big hitboxes are on light legs, go to any map in the Testing Grounds with a TAG. Shine TAG on the air near a leg, gradually bring it in closer to the leg. When you see the dot move in such a way that it appears larger due to being closer to you, that's when you have it on the leg hitbox. Some legs are pretty dang big, Raven legs especially.

The Jenner and Commando legs are somewhat skinnier than the 3D models. Do not know why. But even then...
You have this. It isn't hard to hit them in the legs. Just aim high. Any shot above the knee is guaranteed to hit.

Yeonne Greene, on 23 March 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

I mean, Battlefield 3 had the same problem and that's why it was user-adjustable. Turn it on when you want visual candy, turn it off when you are playing for serious.

You can turn it on? Since when? I'd be all over that...

My biggest issue with BF3 was they took out IK.

Edited by Koniving, 23 March 2018 - 08:14 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Koniving, on 23 March 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

You can turn it on? Since when? I'd be all over that...

My biggest issue with BF3 was they took out IK.

Talking about the network smoothing.

[Koniving]

Yeonne Greene, on 23 March 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

Talking about the network smoothing.

Oh...


I wanted BF3 IK...
Sad face.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Krivvan, on 23 March 2018 - 06:55 AM, said:

Battlefield 1 uses hybrid client and server side hit detection to my knowledge.

Also most pvp shooters still tend to be server-side. It's only more recently that a couple franchises flipped to client side. Overwatch is a client-side example. But the current most popular game on Twitch is server side (Fortnite). Counter Strike GO is also server-side. Planetside 2 is client-side. Unreal Tournament is server-side. World of Tanks is server-side. If I'm not mistaken, War Thunder is actually server-side as well.

But there's really no correct answer regarding which is better.

ok my Fault ...War Thunder really Server side calculated ,and thats with Pve ,Fastest Vehicles, ballisticand armor Calculations ,Hitzone Animations, Ground Tracks and Terrain deforming and Destroyable Structures...and MWO ...

[Water Bear]

Curccu, on 23 March 2018 - 07:59 AM, said:

I find it extremely weird that IK could be the reason someone quits the game and comes back only if its back...

People love to complain. Since IK is off the table, it's a great way to get in your bitter complaining for the week any time you feel like.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 March 2018 - 07:19 PM, said:

And it's not going to come back in, either.

Bombast, on 22 March 2018 - 08:12 PM, said:

IK has been struck down as impossible for the last time. No dice.

Brain Cancer, on 22 March 2018 - 08:52 PM, said:

Not until MWO changes engines entirely, IK is forever lostech given hit registration coding.

Koniving, on 23 March 2018 - 08:03 AM, said:

they "gave up"
The excuse is the impact of the risk of your legs not being where they appear to be in competitions.

Because the less than 30% of players that are competitive (and I'm using that percentage very generously, I seriously doubt it is anywhere above 15%) is PGI's target audience... Most of which tend to leave after seeing how fundamentally flawed the balancing is...

Crazy - so PGI giving up on it is a recent thing? I thought it was back in December... or was that two Decembers ago... where they were planning on bringing it in.

Curccu, on 23 March 2018 - 07:59 AM, said:

I find it extremely weird that IK could be the reason someone quits the game and comes back only if its back...

Lol, I've missed this forum. Never fails that someone assumes something, and then will try to make it conform to their view and project their assumptions as facts. But you are right about one thing, it would be extremely weird if that was the reason. However it's not.

To answer your indirect questions:

• No, IK was not the reason I quit. I quit because of the new skill tree, and I had over 250 mechs that I needed to reskill. F that. I played off and on afterwards, but eventually what it came down to was that the new skill trees didn't improve the game for me, and what a waste of time that skill tree is. I found I was just copy pasting the same paths for a mech aside from some fire power nodes just to get the damn thing skilled.
  
• And no, again, I wasn't going to come back if IK was in. I'd be excited about it, clap and say good job PGI. But it wouldn't bring me back. Nothing will actually. I think my next post in 2 and a half years will be asking whether HTAL is in or not.

It's a shame because I still have 13000 hours of premium time left. Oh well.

Water Bear, on 23 March 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

People love to complain. Since IK is off the table, it's a great way to get in your bitter complaining for the week any time you feel like.

Wasn't complaining lol. Was genuinely interested because it was mentioned about getting in at some point and wanted to know if it got in. Huh, that sounds pretty much like what I said in my OP... Now THAT'S weird!

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 23 March 2018 - 07:53 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Bombast, on 22 March 2018 - 08:12 PM, said:

IK has been struck down as impossible for the last time. No dice.

Yeah, but that was due to resource issues with calculating all the extra crap around hitboxes.

There's been an announcement that an engine change is likely (maybe?)... though that's next year.

Here's hoping that all the bottlenecks in cryengine are gone then and we can get our glorious IK back.

[MechaBattler]

Magnus Santini, on 23 March 2018 - 05:57 AM, said:

IK is beautiful but people should not be looking at their feet. The enemy is over there!

That's what I always think when this comes up. Does it do anything else besides look good?

[Y E O N N E]

Kiiyor, on 23 March 2018 - 10:29 PM, said:

There's been an announcement that an engine change is likely (maybe?)... though that's next year.

Source?

[Curccu]

MoonUnitBeta, on 23 March 2018 - 07:37 PM, said:

And no, again, I wasn't going to come back if IK was in. I'd be excited about it, clap and say good job PGI. But it wouldn't bring me back. Nothing will actually. I think my next post in 2 and a half years will be asking whether HTAL is in or not.

Then my 2nd crazy question will be why do you waste your time on posting here and following this game if you are not going to come back, I'd quess you have better use of your time than game you will not be playing again.