74 replies to this topic

[Will9761]

Personally, I would be fine with endless respawns if Mech Hangars were involved in this game. It would give a high stake risk and gives you an important reason on why you should defend your hangar. A reward for Mech Hangar destruction could also present a good opportunity for C-bill and GXP boost. Seeing how Mech Hangars provide both a base and equipment for mechs, it does make sense in a combat scenario as a way to destroy and undermine your opponents. No hangar = No respawn.

[Grus]

Manored, on 26 March 2018 - 01:34 PM, said:

As it says on the tin. Right now it feels like there's almost no difference between the various game modes, because when enemies don't re-spawn, why worry about the objectives if you can just kill the enemy team, and then go do that?

What makes various game modes apart from "kill them all" work in other games is the fact that death isn't permanent, so the contribution to team victory you get from killing someone is limited.

In this game that crucial element is missing, but the game modes are designed largely in the same way... which ultimately doesn't work that well.

As such, I propose adding re-spawn to most game modes. The idea being that after a player dies, they can re-spawn somewhere between 30 seconds to 2 minutes later, being dropped in via dropship.

I'm aware that there are some game modes with re-spawn on faction play, but I haven't played that so I can't comment on that.

However, maybe the "drop pod" system there could also be used here. Could serve as a means of limiting the number of re-spawns per player, which should keep players from getting too suicidal.

Faction play... you want FP...

IDK if you've ever experienced the lovely experience of Drop-zone camping all with smores before but its not a fun experience.

Will9761, on 28 March 2018 - 08:20 AM, said:

Personally, I would be fine with endless respawns if Mech Hangars were involved in this game. It would give a high stake risk and gives you an important reason on why you should defend your hangar. A reward for Mech Hangar destruction could also present a good opportunity for C-bill and GXP boost. Seeing how Mech Hangars provide both a base and equipment for mechs, it does make sense in a combat scenario as a way to destroy and undermine your opponents. No hangar = No respawn.

*COUGH* MWLL has something like that *COUGH*

[Will9761]

Grus, on 28 March 2018 - 09:45 AM, said:

*COUGH* MWLL has something like that *COUGH*

I've seen footage of MWLL. But I've never seen destructible hangars in it before. Also notice that I said if hangars are destroyed then, you have no more respawns.

Edited by Will9761, 28 March 2018 - 10:32 AM.

[Thorqemada]

Manored, on 26 March 2018 - 01:34 PM, said:

As it says on the tin. Right now it feels like there's almost no difference between the various game modes, because when enemies don't re-spawn, why worry about the objectives if you can just kill the enemy team, and then go do that?

What makes various game modes apart from "kill them all" work in other games is the fact that death isn't permanent, so the contribution to team victory you get from killing someone is limited.

In this game that crucial element is missing, but the game modes are designed largely in the same way... which ultimately doesn't work that well.

As such, I propose adding re-spawn to most game modes. The idea being that after a player dies, they can re-spawn somewhere between 30 seconds to 2 minutes later, being dropped in via dropship.

I'm aware that there are some game modes with re-spawn on faction play, but I haven't played that so I can't comment on that.

However, maybe the "drop pod" system there could also be used here. Could serve as a means of limiting the number of re-spawns per player, which should keep players from getting too suicidal.

There is a whole dedicated special extra gamemode with 3 times Respawn and almost nobody plays it...!

[Grus]

Will9761, on 28 March 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

I've seen footage of MWLL. But I've never seen destructible hangars in it before. Also notice that I said if hangars are destroyed then, you have no more respawns.

you can destroy all the defending turrets then recapture said base to win/lose the spawn point. so kinda what you're getting at.

[Will9761]

Grus, on 28 March 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

you can destroy all the defending turrets then recapture said base to win/lose the spawn point. so kinda what you're getting at.

I'll have to check that out then.

[Manored]

Nema Nabojiv, on 28 March 2018 - 08:08 AM, said:

That is what happens with limited and delayed spawns in FP, exactly because you can retain numbers advantage on enemy spawn for a long time. Like in Hellbore spawn camp.

Well, I don't know the details of FP, but this sounds like more of a matter of balance than anything else. If this is happening, matches should be ending sooner and/or mechs should be re-spawning faster.

Thorqemada, on 28 March 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

There is a whole dedicated special extra gamemode with 3 times Respawn and almost nobody plays it...!

Well, I considered playing it but the game openly warned me to not play it until I'm a super-serious veteran with 4 mechs across different weight classes and a unit. If that mode is supposed to be what I want, then it needs to be more open to newer players. Or have a variant than is. I'm personally probably never gonna play this game frequently enough for long enough a time to be part of an highly active unit.

[Anjian]

Clownwarlord, on 28 March 2018 - 05:35 AM, said:

Issue with re-spawn is spawn camping, and so no.

I have played games --- certainly not MWO --- where there is no issue with that. In fact, the player can time his drop, so that he lures weakened enemies to the spawn and when he drops, he gets one, two, or three kills quick.

MWO suffers from poor game mode design. Other games doesn't.

[Anjian]

Manored, on 28 March 2018 - 01:14 PM, said:

Well, I don't know the details of FP, but this sounds like more of a matter of balance than anything else. If this is happening, matches should be ending sooner and/or mechs should be re-spawning faster.

Well, I considered playing it but the game openly warned me to not play it until I'm a super-serious veteran with 4 mechs across different weight classes and a unit. If that mode is supposed to be what I want, then it needs to be more open to newer players. Or have a variant than is. I'm personally probably never gonna play this game frequently enough for long enough a time to be part of an highly active unit.

Don't bother. FP suffers from a seriously poor game design. In fact, the whole game suffers from poor game design but FP suffers a lot worst than QP. QP design isn't any good but its the lesser of the two evils kind of situation.

[Kaeb Odellas]

I dunno about infinite respawns, but I'd be interested to see how a weight-class limited drop-deck would work.

Instead of having a weight limit, QP dropdecks would be limited to a single weight class (so 4 lights, 4 meds, 4 heavies, or 4 assaults)

This keeps matchmaking simple and adds some tactical flexibility to drops while avoiding silly things like 12-assault drops.

[Anjian]

Kroete, on 28 March 2018 - 02:57 AM, said:

You will have suicide rocketlaucher only mechs,
you will have as much alpha as possible with nearly no armor,
you will have onehitkill mechs that explode after a kill.
Because they will respawn in the next moment.

No need to use armor, no need for heatsinks, no need for more then a ton of ammo,
because you respawn and can do the same again and again and again ...
Unlimited respawns will not work with that much costumization.

In most unlimited respawn games you can choose between 5 different guns and a skin,
but you cant take a suicide bomb.

You are giving away points to the enemy by giving him kills and damage, and by the end of the time counter, the points of both teams are counted and you lose.

In my experience, this kind of game mode --- pure TDM --- also results not in suicide rushing but camping and sniping which is why objectives are evolved into game modes to stop that.

[Anjian]

Kaeb Odellas, on 28 March 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

I dunno about infinite respawns, but I'd be interested to see how a weight-class limited drop-deck would work.

Instead of having a weight limit, QP dropdecks would be limited to a single weight class (so 4 lights, 4 meds, 4 heavies, or 4 assaults)

This keeps matchmaking simple and adds some tactical flexibility to drops while avoiding silly things like 12-assault drops.

I would actually prefer choose whatever you want drop deck. If you have an objective mode game, you should choose the kinds of mechs that are suited for accomplishing that objective. In addition, if you are in a clan, you should be free to choose what mechs works best in synergy with your premade team as you discuss this over your chat. You should also be able to see what your team members are dropping so you can choose the right mech that works best with the team, meaning optimized team synergy. Games with respawns tends to have longer and more complex game phases, again, you have to choose the right mech best for that particular game phase or simply for the particular game situation.

Dropping all assaults may not be the correct strategy depending on game mode, game phase, team synergy and level design.

Edited by Anjian, 28 March 2018 - 03:26 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Dropship mode is an excellent idea and very sim considering. Not sure for all game modes because going from fp to qp there is a big difference and that's a good thing.

[Anjian]

The simplest way is to have dropship mode decks, but the difference in the QP setting is to allow for both Clan and IS mechs in the deck, along with a weight limit. That's the simplest way with the least code work as possible. And of course, both teams are also mixed, not really Clan, not IS, mainly two PUGs going at each other.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Kaeb Odellas, on 28 March 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

I dunno about infinite respawns, but I'd be interested to see how a weight-class limited drop-deck would work.

Instead of having a weight limit, QP dropdecks would be limited to a single weight class (so 4 lights, 4 meds, 4 heavies, or 4 assaults)

This keeps matchmaking simple and adds some tactical flexibility to drops while avoiding silly things like 12-assault drops.

Interesting, but I feel like any kind of limits will naturally force players into the most effective option available, so the ideal dropdeck will be 2 annis + 2 madcats or something along those lines.