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Nerf Piranha


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#261 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 01:42 PM

View Postyrrot, on 05 April 2018 - 01:39 PM, said:

People seriously run less than 10 armor on their back with assaults? No wonder people hate getting backstabbed so much. Between some goofy geometry and slow twist speeds, I always figured I'd want a little bit of padding on the back armor to at least take a little bit of a hit or splash some damage while moving for cover.

I guess with the high alpha builds out now, folks are really maxing out front.


People always max front since rear armor doesn't help against lights, situational awareness does, as this lets you use your frontal armor against them. The old tactic that has always worked is just putting your back to a wall when you need to, works on most maps.

#262 Devilsfury

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 03:44 PM

Ill never get over when you bring a legit post to the table and the same 10-15 people who are supposed mech Gods troll and say everyone else is dumb. Why arent you guys running the adder, jenner, kitfox, panther or raven? Because they cant put out 1/2 of what the PIR does these days. I know, i know, you can pull out a pic from your 1 in 50 matches to where you were the highest damage but on AVERAGE, the PIR in good light pilots hands are almost always top 3 in team damage. THen comes the, "Well you are tier 5 noob." Funny, ive been tier 1 for years and there has always been 1-2 lights that have been crazy broken and eventually they have to fix it. The PIR will be the same. Then there is the old, " Look how low the light que is." To be honest, most people that play lights try and play them like fast assaults and just stand there and die. Speed is their friend and they dont realize just how much that speed lag helps with spreading damage, or not registering damage at all. Just admit that you bought your toy with real money and you want to feel strong until they nerf it. For the other 95%, we see how strong and OP the PIR is in game.
On the fix side of things. They need to add heat to machine guns and massive ghost heat over 6 mg's. No reason why you can fire 8-12 mg all day and never generate an point of heat. That would help a lot.

Edited by Devilsfury, 05 April 2018 - 03:49 PM.


#263 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 03:58 PM

View PostDevilsfury, on 05 April 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

Ill never get over when you bring a legit post to the table and the same 10-15 people who are supposed mech Gods troll and say everyone else is dumb. Why arent you guys running the adder, jenner, kitfox, panther or raven? Because they cant put out 1/2 of what the PIR does these days. I know, i know, you can pull out a pic from your 1 in 50 matches to where you were the highest damage but on AVERAGE, the PIR in good light pilots hands are almost always top 3 in team damage. THen comes the, "Well you are tier 5 noob." Funny, ive been tier 1 for years and there has always been 1-2 lights that have been crazy broken and eventually they have to fix it. The PIR will be the same. Then there is the old, " Look how low the light que is." To be honest, most people that play lights try and play them like fast assaults and just stand there and die. Speed is their friend and they dont realize just how much that speed lag helps with spreading damage, or not registering damage at all. Just admit that you bought your toy with real money and you want to feel strong until they nerf it. For the other 95%, we see how strong and OP the PIR is in game.
On the fix side of things. They need to add heat to machine guns and massive ghost heat over 6 mg's. No reason why you can fire 8-12 mg all day and never generate an point of heat. That would help a lot.


The limiting factor for MGs is the ammo.

The same 10-15 "mech gods" wouldn't have to come here and call everyone else dumb if people would just look up some stats, learn how to play, and stop trying to get the statistically worst mech class nerfed because they can't beat them in the statistically best class.

People say so many absolutely, factually, objectively wrong things on these forums that its insane. Just a couple days ago a guy was going on a rant talking about how humans are the best modern day targeting and was getting likes on every post. Ironically its the same guy who says people aimbot and kill him. Every other day there's someone saying to nerf LRMs, or pretty much just nerf whatever mech killed them and buff whatever mech they are using. How can anyone take them seriously with bias that obvious and displayed understanding so shallow?

I just want people to learn, or at the very least just split the matchmaker up so all the players in T1 who shouldn't be in T1 aren't subject to light pilots who know how to play.

Not to mention the infinite stream of people saying that MGs shouldn't be able to damage armor because they think that its a half ton gun that fires 9mm bullets.

#264 Mystere

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 04:31 PM

View Postyrrot, on 05 April 2018 - 01:39 PM, said:

People seriously run less than 10 armor on their back with assaults? No wonder people hate getting backstabbed so much. Between some goofy geometry and slow twist speeds, I always figured I'd want a little bit of padding on the back armor to at least take a little bit of a hit or splash some damage while moving for cover.

I guess with the high alpha builds out now, folks are really maxing out front.


Well, those addicted to the peek-and-poke play style consider someone backstabbing them as more evil than The Devil Himself. Therefore, the solution is to entirely eliminate said very dishonorable backstabbers.

Edited by Mystere, 05 April 2018 - 04:34 PM.


#265 Devilsfury

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 04:47 PM

View PostChampion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 05 April 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:


The limiting factor for MGs is the ammo.

The same 10-15 "mech gods" wouldn't have to come here and call everyone else dumb if people would just look up some stats, learn how to play, and stop trying to get the statistically worst mech class nerfed because they can't beat them in the statistically best class.

People say so many absolutely, factually, objectively wrong things on these forums that its insane. Just a couple days ago a guy was going on a rant talking about how humans are the best modern day targeting and was getting likes on every post. Ironically its the same guy who says people aimbot and kill him. Every other day there's someone saying to nerf LRMs, or pretty much just nerf whatever mech killed them and buff whatever mech they are using. How can anyone take them seriously with bias that obvious and displayed understanding so shallow?

I just want people to learn, or at the very least just split the matchmaker up so all the players in T1 who shouldn't be in T1 aren't subject to light pilots who know how to play.

Not to mention the infinite stream of people saying that MGs shouldn't be able to damage armor because they think that its a half ton gun that fires 9mm bullets.

Look up stats? I suppose my 50k games ive played and several hundred since the PIR came out and seeing the stats myself is meaningless. Never mind... it wouldnt matter if the whole community came in here and spoke against you, you are too blind to accept the facts.

#266 Jackal Noble

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 04:58 PM

View PostDevilsfury, on 05 April 2018 - 04:47 PM, said:

Look up stats? I suppose my 50k games ive played and several hundred since the PIR came out and seeing the stats myself is meaningless. Never mind... it wouldnt matter if the whole community came in here and spoke against you, you are too blind to accept the facts.


You've played 50K games?

Are you sure it wasn't closer to 1726?

Edited by JackalBeast, 05 April 2018 - 05:00 PM.


#267 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 05:09 PM

View PostJackalBeast, on 05 April 2018 - 04:58 PM, said:

You've played 50K games?

Are you sure it wasn't closer to 1726?


And I'm the one who doesn't accept facts. Posted Image

#268 Devilsfury

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 05:23 PM

View PostChampion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 05 April 2018 - 05:09 PM, said:


And I'm the one who doesn't accept facts. Posted Image

Pssst, literaly been playing here since it was in beta 1. I didnt work for 2 years and played about 10-12 hours a day.
So i just went and checked. Before the stat wipe i had 37k matches and since ive been playing again I have 8400. So i ONLY have 45k+....my bad

Edited by Devilsfury, 05 April 2018 - 05:32 PM.


#269 Darian DelFord

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 06:10 PM

View PostChampion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 05 April 2018 - 01:42 PM, said:

People always max front since rear armor doesn't help against lights, situational awareness does, as this lets you use your frontal armor against them. The old tactic that has always worked is just putting your back to a wall when you need to, works on most maps.


Back armor actually helps alot with lights. The major reason is more reaction time.




View PostDevilsfury, on 05 April 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:


1. Ill never get over when you bring a legit post to the table and the same 10-15 people who are supposed mech Gods troll and say everyone else is dumb.

2. Why arent you guys running the adder, jenner, kitfox, panther or raven? Because they cant put out 1/2 of what the PIR does these days.

3. I know, i know, you can pull out a pic from your 1 in 50 matches to where you were the highest damage but on AVERAGE, the PIR in good light pilots hands are almost always top 3 in team damage.


4. THen comes the, "Well you are tier 5 noob." Funny, ive been tier 1 for years and there has always been 1-2 lights that have been crazy broken and eventually they have to fix it. The PIR will be the same.

5.Then there is the old, " Look how low the light que is." To be honest, most people that play lights try and play them like fast assaults and just stand there and die. Speed is their friend and they dont realize just how much that speed lag helps with spreading damage, or not registering damage at all.

6. Just admit that you bought your toy with real money and you want to feel strong until they nerf it.

7. For the other 95%, we see how strong and OP the PIR is in game.


8. On the fix side of things. They need to add heat to machine guns and massive ghost heat over 6 mg's. No reason why you can fire 8-12 mg all day and never generate an point of heat. That would help a lot.




Hmmm where to start. Oh look at that....l I actually made your wall of text easier to read

1. Could you please point to the legitimate post please? I mean honestly please point to it. I have yet to see one video or any post that actually lays out facts. All the videos that have been posted in the multiple threads claiming OP'ness have in fact supported the piranha's and pilot's abilities to capitalize on the mistakes of other players. So please again point to the legitamet post you are referring to and why not actually use tome facts that prove the piranaha is OP that does not consist of.... Oh I have only 1 back armor..... Oh All my weapons are in my torso and I can't shoot down...... Oh I do not have seismic as I need more PEW PEW.......

2. Ummm because people like you have cried and whined long enough on the forums about those mechs that most light mechs have been nerfed into the ground and are now almost unplayable due to the ease in which they are obliterated at 500+ meters. The problem is every time a light mech starts to shine the assault trolls come to the forums bitching and moaning that they can not survive.

3. Dude this is what I am talking about in regards to a legit post. If you put a light mech into the hands of any decent light mech the majority of the time they will be in the top 3 for damage. You do not need a piranha for that.... Most assault players do not know how to fight a light because they gear themselves up to fight heavies and assaults

4. There are only 2 lights that come to mind that have ever been crazy broken..... The Spider and the raven 3 L when it was first released. Those were the only mechs that even the light pilots felt were simply broken.... The spider due to lag at the time and the 3L due to the damn streaks it had. Those are the only lights that I can remember everyone agreeing needed to be fixed.

5. I keep hearing this.... however lag shield DOES NOT affect our registering of damage as much as your lack of aiming might think. I have several duels on vids that plainly show two mechs going at it at 150+ KPH and all the shots registering. The light queue is brought up a s a simple TANGIBLE FACT that can looked at to get a snap shot of the popular weight classes. I am sorry but if the piranha is so OP or the Cheetah is so OP or the Locust is so OP the queue would be higher than 10% on any given non event time. The fact of the matter is it is not. This is due to many issues, the main one being the skill that is actually required to pilot a light successfully.

6. OHHHH I see this is the legit part of your post you were talking about?

7. 95% of assault players you mean???

8. You do realize what you have to do to actually fire those MG's at a target who is actively trying to evade you right?


The problem is.... Lights have been the most directly and indirectly nerfed class in the game. This is why the number of dedicated light pilots has dwindled significantly. Lights MUST be fun to play.... not just an add on to the team. Assaults and heavies should NOT be the only mechs who are continuously doing well.

I can not help if you gimp your mechs against lights.... that is your choice. But take it like a mechwarrior when you get caught with your pants down.!

#270 Krivvan

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 06:21 PM

View PostDevilsfury, on 05 April 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

Ill never get over when you bring a legit post to the table and the same 10-15 people who are supposed mech Gods troll and say everyone else is dumb. Why arent you guys running the adder, jenner, kitfox, panther or raven?

I DO run the Jenner and Urbanmech. Far more often than the Piranha, if only because they're easier to use in pub queues.

#271 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 07:16 PM

I remember back when Adder and Kitfox were my favorite lights, but then they nerfed the UACs into oblivion and using a UAC20 on it became just a jamming simulator. So the slow moving lights kinda became useless as anything other than an SRM boat that is just worse than a medium above it in every way, even though it was already worse than the medium above it using UACs, but at least it was different. Also my Adder is comparable to a Summoner in agility, and worse than a Linebacker, so I might as well just bring a heavy.

I also used to play the locust a lot with just a single large pulse laser, then they nerfed that thing to pieces so there was no point using it, moved over to the SRM2 one and the SPL one. Panther's kinda fun as a poptart, but once again is totally outclassed by mediums and heavies in the same role so no point other than to troll.

Pretty much any light mech that isn't outright meta gets destroyed by blanket nerfs, then ones that were meta get destroyed by targeted nerfs. Why would anyone want to put up with that? I might as well just get in my Annihilator, go kill the entire enemy assault lance with ease, punch holes through their lights, then come back to the forums as people cry to buff my killing machine even further.

#272 Wil McCullough

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 11:29 PM

View PostMystere, on 05 April 2018 - 07:38 AM, said:


The solution is for people to put more armor on their back, at the cost of frontal armor and possibly other equipment. However, I guess many people prefer to just ***** and cry on the forums for nerfs rather than change their load outs.

People were warned long ago they will someday pay dearly for heavily skimping on back armor. I just have absolutely no sympathy. The Piranha and machine guns are fine. <shrugs>


Actually they don't have to. Low back armor will always have an effect, but the effect can be mitigated to a huge extent by positioning and decision making in general AFTER dropping into a match.

In qp for example, the easiest way is to simply never be hidey mcchiderson and digging a hole with a stick at the back. As long as you have enough teammates around and behind you, it deters light pilots from seeing you as a soft and chewy cookie.

So many potatoes like to take a scenic route alone or stop and enjoy the view of their lurms hitting rocks 900m away. That's what is causing the grief. That and picking bad spots to camp at. If you're gonna camp, at least pick a spot where you can stick your back to a cliff at a moment's notice.

#273 Sjorpha

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 03:36 AM

View PostDevilsfury, on 05 April 2018 - 04:47 PM, said:

Look up stats? I suppose my 50k games ive played and several hundred since the PIR came out and seeing the stats myself is meaningless. Never mind... it wouldnt matter if the whole community came in here and spoke against you, you are too blind to accept the facts.


It's bit hard to know if it would accepted since not one single poster in a 14 page thread has presented any convincing evidence to support the claim (that the pir-1 is overpowered). All we've seen so far are some anecdotal examples of performance peaks and even those examples are pretty normal for good matches in most mechs.

The actual best and largest data set presented so far on the topic is Jman5s breakdown of match results over on outreachHPG, and that shows only a very very slight advantage in median damage over the Locust (290 vs 270). Certainly doesn't seem to support the claim that Piranha is OP.

If you have better or more extensive research then please share it.

Edited by Sjorpha, 06 April 2018 - 03:41 AM.


#274 Yondu Udonta

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 03:40 AM

View Postyrrot, on 05 April 2018 - 01:39 PM, said:

People seriously run less than 10 armor on their back with assaults?

Potato detected.

#275 Mystere

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 03:44 AM

View PostDarian DelFord, on 05 April 2018 - 06:10 PM, said:

The problem is.... Lights have been the most directly and indirectly nerfed class in the game. This is why the number of dedicated light pilots has dwindled significantly. Lights MUST be fun to play.... not just an add on to the team. Assaults and heavies should NOT be the only mechs who are continuously doing well.



I think this is a good time for someone to take the relative performance numbers between classes and turn them into an MWO meme.

#276 Darian DelFord

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 03:56 AM

View PostMystere, on 06 April 2018 - 03:44 AM, said:



I think this is a good time for someone to take the relative performance numbers between classes and turn them into an MWO meme.



If I could do that would love to see it

#277 Bud Crue

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 04:09 AM

View PostMystere, on 06 April 2018 - 03:44 AM, said:



I think this is a good time for someone to take the relative performance numbers between classes and turn them into an MWO meme.


Relative performance numbers between classes...
What are they?
PGI claims they are all within a small percentage of difference.
Depending on who you listen to here and Reddit the classes and even all variants are perfectly fine and balanced; are all over the map with lights dominating, assaults dominating or some nut bag claiming something out of left field.
Your meme is gonna be real boring or batshit crazy.

#278 yrrot

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 05:58 AM

PGI is looking at aggregated data over all of the tiers (which they hopefully have split out by tier). Each of us is looking at a small sample set of "data" we recall. It would be nice to see some of PGI's numbers, especially when they put out a buff/nerf out of the blue.

View PostYondu the Ravager, on 06 April 2018 - 03:40 AM, said:

Potato detected.


Totally, I'm absolutely terrible.

#279 Nightbird

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 06:20 AM

Relative strength of weight classes requested? Delivered

https://mwomercs.com...and-suggestion/

#280 Mystere

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 07:30 AM

View PostNightbird, on 06 April 2018 - 06:20 AM, said:

Relative strength of weight classes requested? Delivered

https://mwomercs.com...and-suggestion/


Ah! Now I remember!





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