281 replies to this topic

[kuma8877]

Lucian Nostra, on 04 April 2018 - 08:20 PM, said:

uhm no just most dangerous light, the mech is vicious when used correctly able to back core anything in this game in a heartbeat.

Is it OP? I dunno but it's by far the most dangerous, no other light is gonna rip you down as fast

Back coring something with 2 armor isn't really a feat.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Nightbird, on 04 April 2018 - 06:12 PM, said:

Nan, he probably bought the Nightstar when it released for c-bills, because it looks so pretty and intimidating.

Boy, is he in for disappointment! So, by the way, are the rest of you waiting for PIR c-bill release. Because THAT'S the very patch in which it will be nerfed.

[Nightbird]

Mister Glitchdragon, on 04 April 2018 - 08:24 PM, said:

Boy, is he in for disappointment! So, by the way, are the rest of you waiting for PIR c-bill release. Because THAT'S the very patch in which it will be nerfed.

I doubt the Piranha will be nerfed directly, more likely MG crit multiplier will be reduced again by 25-50% which will screw over all the lights, not just the Piranha. Mark my words!

[Lucian Nostra]

kuma8877, on 04 April 2018 - 08:24 PM, said:

Back coring something with 2 armor isn't really a feat.

yeah it is, because nothing does it with the speed the piranha does it at, you usually eat a salvo take your damage and react, Piranha is a big nope just another dead assault.

[kuma8877]

Lucian Nostra, on 04 April 2018 - 08:27 PM, said:

yeah it is, because nothing does it with the speed the piranha does it at, you usually eat a salvo take your damage and react, Piranha is a big nope just another dead assault.

If I get a clean back on anything with 2-6 armor on the backside, that mech isn't going to last long against most of the lights I run. The PIR is NOT unique in this regard, it's just not.

[Lucian Nostra]

kuma8877, on 04 April 2018 - 08:36 PM, said:

If I get a clean back on anything with 2-6 armor on the backside, that mech isn't going to last long against most of the lights I run. The PIR is NOT unique in this regard, it's just not.

yeah? what light are you running that has a nearly 60 point alpha followed with 6 MGs? (I say nearly because alpha striking 9 Heavy small lasers will kill you) I mean Im sorry but I don't see many lights packing 9 Heavy Small lasers and 6 MGs. Keep in mind a 100 ton assault has 62 points internal.

[Mystere]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 04 April 2018 - 07:59 PM, said:

While I agree lights are in a pretty bad state, using what the majority or minority of people play in this game doesn't really mean much when it seems the majority of pugs bring LRMs to FP yet that's a losing strategy. It seems many players in this game actively go out of their way to choose bad options for themselves.

Players bringing LRMs to CW is a different matter altogether.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Lucian Nostra, on 04 April 2018 - 09:04 PM, said:

yeah? what light are you running that has a nearly 60 point alpha followed with 6 MGs? (I say nearly because alpha striking 9 Heavy small lasers will kill you) I mean Im sorry but I don't see many lights packing 9 Heavy Small lasers and 6 MGs. Keep in mind a 100 ton assault has 62 points internal.

Ah, so now we're back to moving goalposts. All this talk about the "OP-ness" of 12 machine guns in the PIR-1 and suddenly we have the PIR-CI as the "real" culprit ... I just wonder what a 9 cHSML alpha will do with the Cipher

[Lucian Nostra]

Der Geisterbaer, on 04 April 2018 - 09:27 PM, said:

Ah, so now we're back to moving goalposts. All this talk about the "OP-ness" of 12 machine guns in the PIR-1 and suddenly we have the PIR-CI as the "real" culprit ... I just wonder what a 9 cHSML alpha will do with the Cipher

actually is my fault for mis-reading the post far back about it being about the piranha 1 as the most deadly as opposed to just the piranha chassis in general. So whoops on my part my stance comes form Ciphers and to a lesser extent piranha 2/3

edit: but again i said i don't think it's necessarily an OP mech just well ahead of the curve

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 04 April 2018 - 09:54 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

How are you guys getting the "full to dead in 3 sec" experience? 12 lmgs deal 8.4 dps. An 80 ton assault has 50 ct structure. If the assault packs 4 rear armor, that's slightly over 6 seconda of sustained fire.

Just a comparison, spl ach does 72 damage in slightly less than 6 sec. Spl locust does 63 in slightly less than 6 sec. Assuming same back armor allocation, both the ach and locust can take down opponents up to 20 tons and 15 tons heavier respectively in the same time frame.

Doesn't seem like the piranha is op in any way to me at all. Hell, pre-nerf spl locusts and achs would scoff at what the piranha brings to the table and no one really had a problem with those mechs then.

So what changed?

Overall player skill dropped or something?

Edit: for mechs that can be taken down in 3 secs from lmg fire (40 tons and below), a hsl ach can take them down in a single alpha. Literally. And it can do the same thing to mechs up to 20 tons heavier (60 tons).

Edited by Wil McCullough, 05 April 2018 - 03:44 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Wil McCullough, on 05 April 2018 - 03:37 AM, said:

So what changed?

Overall player skill dropped or something?

Honestly I get the impression that a lot of people are just irrationally terrified of machine guns. I run a 6xMG KGB-000 from time to time (with the bulk of tonnage going to MRMs and LPLas, I'm not an animal) and people will actually twist away from the MG fire alone even when they're not open.

Pile that on top of the "OMG Lights kill me when I'm half-AFK staring at red doritos on the far side of the map" hysteria and you get this.

[zerosouL]

Nothing wrong with MGs, PIRs or any other lights. Its just another L2P issue and crying about something that counters something. I mean we can talk about perfect scenarios all day long and nerf every single thing but whats the point? Just adapt, deal with it accordingly and man up. Whining about something wont make you a better players anyway.

[kuma8877]

Lucian Nostra, on 04 April 2018 - 09:04 PM, said:

yeah? what light are you running that has a nearly 60 point alpha followed with 6 MGs? (I say nearly because alpha striking 9 Heavy small lasers will kill you) I mean Im sorry but I don't see many lights packing 9 Heavy Small lasers and 6 MGs. Keep in mind a 100 ton assault has 62 points internal.

I don't need a 60 point alpha to take out heavies and assaults from behind. Try running that HSL loadout on the Cipher and see how long you last. You won't, it's too hot and the cycle time is death if you have to fight anything that knows you're there. You can do it with lots of lights. It's more about the timing than the loadout.

[yrrot]

Wil McCullough, on 05 April 2018 - 03:37 AM, said:

How are you guys getting the "full to dead in 3 sec" experience? 12 lmgs deal 8.4 dps. An 80 ton assault has 50 ct structure. If the assault packs 4 rear armor, that's slightly over 6 seconda of sustained fire.

Just a comparison, spl ach does 72 damage in slightly less than 6 sec. Spl locust does 63 in slightly less than 6 sec. Assuming same back armor allocation, both the ach and locust can take down opponents up to 20 tons and 15 tons heavier respectively in the same time frame.

Doesn't seem like the piranha is op in any way to me at all. Hell, pre-nerf spl locusts and achs would scoff at what the piranha brings to the table and no one really had a problem with those mechs then.

So what changed?

Overall player skill dropped or something?

Edit: for mechs that can be taken down in 3 secs from lmg fire (40 tons and below), a hsl ach can take them down in a single alpha. Literally. And it can do the same thing to mechs up to 20 tons heavier (60 tons).

The thing about MG damage is crit. So 12 MGs will shave back armor off of most mechs in <1 sec, and the rest is all internals. Crits do up to 3x damage to structure. IF RNG favors the PIR, that DPS can skyrocket.

So even though the SPL ACH can do 70+ damage in 6 seconds, the PIR-1 is doing that as a baseline with a crazy crit bonus from MGs. I'm sure if SPL had the same crit effect and DPS of MGs, people would complain about them too.

It seems like anyone that has seen the crit spree from the PIR-1 thinks they are OP, and anyone that hasn't seen them get a great RNG chain thinks they are okay.

I don't know if PGI can do it easily, but I wonder if it would be better if MGs just had a fixed damage bonus on structure/internals instead of the crit bonus. Taking out some of the RNG would probably make it less of a problem.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Only way to nerf it is to nerf Machine guns...again. or give them ghost heat.

[PocketYoda]

justcallme A S H, on 03 April 2018 - 10:49 PM, said:

The two screenshots you showed there is a FIVE second difference and the Catapult starts off with a yellow armour CT.

Come on man. Fake News right there.

What the screen shots are both the same archer man.. and i'm the one with fake news... the mauler was me and i had twin lbx10s no lrms

Took 5 seconds to core and kill a non damaged archer.. thats far from fake news..

[Nightbird]

Samial, on 05 April 2018 - 06:55 AM, said:

Took 5 seconds to core and kill a non damaged archer.. thats far from fake news..

I have multiple mechs that can do this in <2 seconds?

[Darian DelFord]

Once again

Players make conscious decisions that gimp their mechs against light mechs. You make the conscious decision to have only 1 back armor. You could put on more back armor and last longer

The problem is all you anti piranha and anti light players make conscious decisions to gimp your mechs against lights for more PEW PEW then come to the forums to ***** when you get ganked

It really is that simple.

This game is not meant for only assaults to be viable.

Once again show me a video of a piranha or any light mech taking on 2 assault mechs engaged with the light. And the light come out dancing while the assaults are fragged.

[zerosouL]

Darian DelFord, on 05 April 2018 - 07:17 AM, said:

Once again show me a video of a piranha or any light mech taking on 2 assault mechs engaged with the light. And the light come out dancing while the assaults are fragged.

Lots of people have issues targeting stationary targets while moving and vice versa. We need to implement autoaim hotkey with speed/velocity/distance compensation to make it fair for eveyone

[Mystere]

yrrot, on 05 April 2018 - 06:50 AM, said:

The thing about MG damage is crit. So 12 MGs will shave back armor off of most mechs in <1 sec, and the rest is all internals. Crits do up to 3x damage to structure. IF RNG favors the PIR, that DPS can skyrocket.

So even though the SPL ACH can do 70+ damage in 6 seconds, the PIR-1 is doing that as a baseline with a crazy crit bonus from MGs. I'm sure if SPL had the same crit effect and DPS of MGs, people would complain about them too.

It seems like anyone that has seen the crit spree from the PIR-1 thinks they are OP, and anyone that hasn't seen them get a great RNG chain thinks they are okay.

I don't know if PGI can do it easily, but I wonder if it would be better if MGs just had a fixed damage bonus on structure/internals instead of the crit bonus. Taking out some of the RNG would probably make it less of a problem.

The solution is for people to put more armor on their back, at the cost of frontal armor and possibly other equipment. However, I guess many people prefer to just ***** and cry on the forums for nerfs rather than change their load outs.

People were warned long ago they will someday pay dearly for heavily skimping on back armor. I just have absolutely no sympathy. The Piranha and machine guns are fine. <shrugs>

Edited by Mystere, 05 April 2018 - 07:40 AM.